npce: how to get counciling

[aeschmae]

This is a reg. Have fun guessing.

How do you get counciling for someone that refuses? DH and I have been having problems since we had kids. I have suggested seeing someone before and he flat out refused. I want to work this out but i dont know how to get him to agree. The only thing i can think is to get an ultimatum of counciling or divorce but he would take me up on the divorce just to spite me ans i really don't want a divorce.

Any advice?

[WOT?*]

You can't. You can get counseling for yourself, to learn coping mechanisms and educate yourself on why you're having the problems and how to deal with your issues, but you can't force someone else into counseling. Not unless the courts are involved for some reason and there is a court order. But even then, you can get him there but you can't get him counselled if he doesn't want to talk.

[mysterons]

My ex-H's refusal to go to marriage counseling sealed the deal on us getting a divorce. We didn't have kids though... You're in a really tough spot. The spiteful part of me wants you to call his bluff. Does he think things will magically get better on their own? How does he propose working on your marriage?

[aeschmae]

I dont know. The last time i mentioned it, he did dial back the asshole for a while. I dont know what he would do to improve anything. He tends to shut down when confronted and i am bad at confrontation so we just let things continue.

[JLN]

As pp said, you can't drag him there. But you can go by yourself and prepare yourself for how to deal with the situation and assess if you'll ne truly happy staying in the marriage. I would give him an ultimatum, but since I'm not in that position I know that's easier said than done.

[ringstrue]

He can go by himself and you can go by yourself. Honestly, I think having to sit at home alone with the kids because you drove your spouse to counseling can be a bit of a wakeup call for him.

You can play with wording to keep the intent w/o having an ultimatum. "I think we aren't going see improvement in our relationship w/o help" him: "or what? You'll divorce me?" you: "I didn't say that. But Do you really think we are doing well in our relationship w/o help? Don't you WANT to have a better relationship with me? Don't you want try something that has a better chance of working for us?"

That was how our convo sort of went.

I'd also google around for info on male depression and see if your DH has similar signs. Very different than the typical signs we think of. It's nearly impossible to tell someone they are depressed if they don't want to hear what you have to say, but, it could help you in composing yourself and how to manage your interactions with him and reassure yourself that it's really not you. It can also help to make sure you don't accidentally say the wrongs things that just set him off into a downward spiral. It helped me in not getting overly emotional about his wording, I could ignore him baiting me easier.

One last thing: dunno what is a typical fight or interaction between you two, but he ALWAYS needs to talk to you respectfully. No name calling, no making fun of you to the kids, etc. There are situations I can understand wanting to weather through with your spouse, but I don't want to end up suggesting you try to work through an issue where you don't even have his respect as another human being. He has to atleast give you that basic respect to get anywhere.

[arborgold]

Aug 19, 2012 5:00:11 GMT -5 mysterons said:

My ex-H's refusal to go to marriage counseling sealed the deal on us getting a divorce. We didn't have kids though... You're in a really tough spot. The spiteful part of me wants you to call his bluff. Does he think things will magically get better on their own? How does he propose working on your marriage?

This was me. We went for two sessions, and then he refused to go to any more. That sealed it for me. But, like mysterons, we didn't have children.

If someone isn't willing to work on your relationship together with you, and you're miserable in your relationship, it's hard to stay there.

Ditto the others on getting some counseling of your own if you're not already doing it (it definitely helped me). If you ever want to chat, I'm here.

[Deleted]

My DH had to completely crash and burn before he would go. He needs medication long-term in addition to the shorter term therapy he had.

So basically once he had ruined all of his relationships to the point it is a miracle he rebuilt them, he went. Many people still won't go and many more won't do the very hard work of putting their lives back together.

[eclaires]

I agree w/ PP that you can't make someone get counseling. I do think that it would be good for you to start going by yourself if he won't go.

That said, would he be willing to go to a regular PCP and get a physical? Sometimes I think that can be a good way to open the door to wanting to be healthy both mentally and physically. I know my doctor's physicals include a lot of questions on top of my physical health, kwim?

However, and I am not trying to be bitchy, but if he's such an asshole, why would you want to stay married? I mean, that is not a healthy marriage or relationship and regardless of what you think you hide from your kids, it affects them and they will pick up on it eventually. I understand wanting to try everything before you divorce, and I know that friends/family of mine that have divorced have said that they like knowing they tried everything and therefore have no regrets. I just don't understand hanging on to just be married, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Good luck.

[AJL]

Like other posters have said, you can't. I would seek a counselor for yourself.

I can imagine you feel like you're at the end of your rope. I'm really sorry you're dealing with these issues.

[thejackpot]

You need to go for yourself and work on you. You don't even have to tell him that you are going until you are ready. Maybe after talking to a therapist you can figure out the best way to have this discussion with him. I don't think that all people arrive at this moment "we are in dire straits" at the same point. Work on you, that is the best thing for your peace of mind. GL

[emilyj]

As the others have said, you can't. Even if you force him to go, he can still sit there and be a big dick and not participate.

The other ladies have all given great advice for why you should go for you, so I ditto all of it. This sounds like a miserable situation for you to be in and I think therapy would help you tremendously in being able to deal with it.

I have to echo eclaires though - why do you want to stay married to this guy? Marriage is a partnership, and I realize you've given us very limited info here, but it drives me nuts when people say their spouses refuse to go to counseling. That is so disrespectful of you. If he's not willing to respect you and give effort to you and the marriage...why do you feel like you deserve that? You don't.

I'd really be tempted to call his bluff.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

You can't MAKE someone get help they don't want or aren't ready for. That means you could drag him kicking and screaming, but it will be a waste of money because he will not participate. You need counseling for YOU. What are you willing to tolerate. How much of his behavior can you live with before it's too much? What if nothing ever changes?
I know it's not what you want to hear, but you can only change you and your behavior. That's the bad news. But it's actually the good news when you think about it, because you finally have control over your life and you can take the direction you want to take.

[taratru]

I went alone when ex-H didn't think he needed to. Then he went for a while, only because that's what I wanted him to do. But we never went together, because he couldn't keep the sessions IN the sessions. He wanted to continue "counseling" every minute of the day, which meant cross-examining me 24/7. Then he got medicated and things were actually good for a while. Then he quit taking the meds because it was better.

Then I realized it wasn't worth it. He wasn't actually making any changes, he was just superficially attending counseling because that was the appearance that he thought I wanted to stay married to him. He was exactly the same douchebag after a year of counseling. That's when I decided to divorce him. And yes, we had one kid.

All that to say, even if you persuade him to go, if he doesn't think he needs it or if he doesn't believe your marriage needs it, it's worthless.

[aeschmae]

I just dont want to divorce parent at all. He wont be able to put aside issues with me and be nice about me in front of the kinds. I bet they will hear a lot of your mom is a bitch. And i dont want to answer them when they ask where their dad is. Basically i am scared of evey bad divorce situtation you can imagine. But maybe without the stress of me, he will be better. I dunno.

[aeschmae]

I will say that now, i can see when he is not in a good mood and the kids and i go somewhere else/do something else. When he starts to get pissy when them, we leave. If we were divorced, i couldnt do that. And i dont want him to be mean to the kids b/c is he mad. I dont want them to go through that

[statlerwaldorf]

I think counseling can be a great tool, but you only get out of it what you put into it. I doubt if you somehow forced him to go that it would be helpful in any way other than you realizing that he is not putting effort into the marriage.

[ringstrue]

Aes- I wonder if counseling would help with those questions - or if there is some way to get those answers. Depending on your situation, if he had to leave, would he even be able to get a place with enough space for the kids? I mean, one sort of needs to not be a basket-case to get their own big place and establish himself.

If you really do not trust your DH with your children then I think I'd talk to the divorce lawyer and/or a counselor about your options.

[eclaires]

I can't imagine how scary it is to think of someone you don't trust to be with your kids, but at the same time, you can't continue like this if he isn't going to change. It will be bad for your kids and bad for you.

Do you even think he'll want visitation? How hard will he fight you? Also, if he is negative about you towards the kids, a lot of states have custody laws that include "alienation" of the other parent, meaning you cannot speak poorly of the other parent, and try to drive a wedge between the kids/other parent. I mean, it takes a bit to prove it, it can't just be once or twice, I don't think, but it's not like he could badmouth you nonstop and drive the kids away from you. And if you're concerned he wont' take good care of the kids, you can certainly pursue full custody or have him taking parenting classes as part of your custody agreement.

As much as you think you are shielding them from him being mean to them - they will have to go through something else if you stay in this marriage that is probably equally damaging to their emotional well being. You may think you are protecting them, but they will eventually pick up on it and there will be times when you aren't around. If he is THAT bad and is mean to them, and you divorced him, you would at least have some recourse to keeping him out of their lives, you know? It wouldn't be automatic or a definite thing, but there'd at least be a path to that point. Or the upside is that he may be taking out his anger w/ you on them, and once he is out of the situation, he may be a better father?

I hope something changes for you and your kids - you don't deserve this.

[SusanBAnthony]

I think you current method will work fine while they are little (I don't know how old they'd re, just assuming) but they will catch on real quick. They will know their dad is an asshole to them, and they will question why you let him treat you that way. And regardless of if you are married or not, they will spend time with him when you aren't around to shield them.

I don't know. There aren't any easy answers. But it certainly can't hurt for you to get some counseling and to ask him to come with you. I have a good friend who is a marriage therapist, and she recommends marriagefriendlytherapists.com. They are not religiously affiliated.

[emmybean]

I have nothing to add on the counseling front, but i will say this: Staying married to a douchebag so you can monitor his behavior towards the kids is a total cop out. It's much easier to "divorce parent" then it is to live with an heir to the Massengill fortune. Your kids will be better off too. They are much better off seeing their mom as a strong woman not willing to put up with bullshit, that someone willing to martyr themself in the name of the kids.

Eta: if you actually fear for their safety with him, then that's all the more reason to GTFA from him.

[taratru]

I so ditto Emmy. It's been over ten years since my divorce and my ex STILL talks shit about me. It hasn't done anything to impact my relationship with my daughter. It only makes him miserable and fucking pathetic to carry that around. And now that she's older, DD sees that as well.

Please don't let the fear of divorce parenting keep you married to an asshole.

[ttt]

I wish I had some advice for you but I think everyone has covered it. I'm not going to jump to "divorce" because divorce does suck and it really, really sucks for the kids. But I do think step one is to get yourself to a counselor and let a professional help you work through what's going on.

Good luck and I'm sorry you're dealing with this. ((hugs))

[ttt]

Also big ditto to whoever suggested considering that your H may be depressed, especially if this behavior is different from how he was in the past. Depression can look different in men than women, and being irritable/pissy is one major sign (of course, it could also just be a sign that he's a moody ahole, so).

[mysterons]

You deserve a much better life than this. I really hope you start therapy on your own. It was so helpful for me.

[NitaX]

Aug 19, 2012 10:40:20 GMT -5 @cse1960 said:

Aug 19, 2012 4:10:06 GMT -5 aeschmae said:

This is a reg. Have fun guessing.

How do you get counciling for someone that refuses? DH and I have been having problems since we had kids. I have suggested seeing someone before and he flat out refused. I want to work this out but i dont know how to get him to agree. The only thing i can think is to get an ultimatum of counciling or divorce but he would take me up on the divorce just to spite me ans i really don't want a divorce.

Any advice?

You can't, so stop trying. Get counselling for yourself, and don't make ultimatums. Make your decision about whether to stay married after you've had some individual counselling and can see if changing something within yourself can change the dynamic of your marriage.

All of this. And don't make ultimatums. It leads to resentment and makes the situation worse. Go to counseling alone even if your spouse won't go. You can deal with your own issues and be in a better frame of mind to make a decision even if it ultimately leads to divorce.

[emilyj]

I strongly ditto Emmy. She said what my thoughts 100%.

I will add that I think you deserve much better than what you are currently living right now. You shouldn't have to take your kids out when your H gets pissy. That's not fair to you or them. You shouldn't have to live in a crappy situation because he refuses counseling. That's not fair to you. You deserve better than that. Go to counseling for YOU. The other women gave great advice to you on handling that.

Try to take things one step at a time right now. First step - take care of you. Start counseling for you. Because you are worth it (yes. That's hokey and cliched, but whatever). You deserve better. Please remember that. You have support here whenever you need it as well.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

If, and please note I'm saying IF and not WHEN things get to the "divorce talk" you can certainly ask that each parent not speak negatively of the other one around the children, or allow other people to do so. This is a part of the custody settlement I have with XH and we both take it very seriously.

[Melissa W.]

My DH and I were having problems and going to counseling by myself has helped tremendously.
If you are looking for where to get counseling, see if your employer has an Employee Assistance Program. They may pay for a set number of sessions outside of whatever insurance pays. I was able to get six sessions free. It really helped me get the ball rolling. At least at my employer, it was completely confidential.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Be strong, if not for yourself.. for your kids.