John Oliver: Televangelists and Mega-Churches

[jdnotbyrider]

This week, my other lord and savior, John Oliver, called out preachers who use religion as a way to get money out of the poor's hands and into their pockets, to buy things like jets, and tell people things like that their cancer can be cured without a single visit to a doctor.

John Oliver's response to this? ESTABLISHING A LEGIT MEGA CHURCH, RAN BY HIM HIMSELF.

www.ourladyofperpetualexemption.com

You can donate real money to him, and he gets all of it tax free.... however, he has stated that all of the money that he gets, whenever he may decide to stop running the church, every single penny is going to Doctors without Boarders.

[Velvetshady]

I haven't watched it yet (or the last couple of weeks--bad velvetshady), but DH started my day with an email instructing me to call 1-800-844-7475 immediately.

DH had "found" ~36 church pews for sale in the newspaper this Sunday--he suggested we use the basement in the "new" house for a church (the basement that is currently flooded). Guess we could claim a tenet of the Church of Shady is you must baptist your paws on a regular basis.

[Deleted]

I loved this piece. Those examples he use infuriate me. I feel terrible for the people who fall for their shit.

[bernsteincat]

We definitely called the 1-800 number at the end. It was hilarious.

[simpsongal]

We'll watch the piece tonight. My pastor recently threw some major shade on the guy (I refuse to call him a pastor) who wanted a luxury jet.

Sickening.

[debatethis]

Aug 17, 2015 11:47:35 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

We'll watch the piece tonight. My pastor recently threw some major shade on the guy (I refuse to call him a pastor) who wanted a luxury jet.

Sickening.

You're going to have to be more specific, lol. There are lots of them.

[mbcdefg]

Aug 17, 2015 10:30:20 GMT -5 Velvetshady said:

I haven't watched it yet (or the last couple of weeks--bad velvetshady), but DH started my day with an email instructing me to call 1-800-844-7475 immediately.

DH had "found" ~36 church pews for sale in the newspaper this Sunday--he suggested we use the basement in the "new" house for a church (the basement that is currently flooded). Guess we could claim a tenet of the Church of Shady is you must baptist your paws on a regular basis.

My parents salvaged a church pew many years ago. That was my sister's regular seat at the dinner table. 

[elleblue]

Aug 17, 2015 11:44:46 GMT -5 bernsteincat said:

We definitely called the 1-800 number at the end. It was hilarious.

We did too! 

Loved this piece though it's heartbreaking that it's often those who can afford it the least who fall for these "seed money" scams. 

[jdnotbyrider]

Aug 17, 2015 11:50:06 GMT -5 debatethis said:

Aug 17, 2015 11:47:35 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

We'll watch the piece tonight. My pastor recently threw some major shade on the guy (I refuse to call him a pastor) who wanted a luxury jet.

Sickening.

You're going to have to be more specific, lol. There are lots of them.

Probably talking about Creflo Dollar. Incredibly enough, that wasn't the most asinine he's ever asked for, because I remember Larry Wilmore talking on a Nightly Show in about April or May that if there was life on mars, then they needed to hear the gospel and the way of the lord, so Creflo asked people to give him 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS for a space shuttle to take him to mars, so that his preaching could span across the galaxy. 

[jln]

My dad was one of the people who was poor and tithed 10% of his income to a mega church. He worked at the church and conveniently took it out of his paycheck. However, he wasn't paid much and (along with mismanaging his money) I had to help him pay his bills. Once I realized he was still tithing while asking his teenage daughter for financial help, I quickly put a stop to that.

I hate that people claim they're Christians and then take advantage of the poor. They prey on the most vulnerable.

[Deleted]

We'd be given the old "If you can afford Starbucks, you can afford to tithe" guilt trips every so often. I'd sit there and think, "If God needed my coffee money so badly, he would have blessed me with children that slept." Clearly caffeine is my religion.

[NitaX]

Aug 17, 2015 14:20:33 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

We'd be given the old "If you can afford Starbucks, you can afford to tithe" guilt trips every so often. I'd sit there and think, "If God needed my coffee money so badly, he would have blessed me with children that slept." Clearly caffeine is my religion.

So, I want to say this because I think that people don't understand the larger point of tithing. It's not so much that God needs your money. Churches are charged with doing ministry. In doing ministry - you are doing things (hopefully) to help the community. 

I know that when I pay my tithes, it's not just the pastor has my money. I know that my money goes to support the work of our food pantry. It goes to support the work of the after school program for young boys. It goes to support the annual health fair and back to school drive. It goes to the Benevolence fund for families down on their luck. It goes to the Scholarship fund to send our high school seniors off with something extra in their pockets. 

None of those things would be possible if I didn't pay my tithes. 

Yes, I disagree with religion profiteers who preach prosperity gospel and take advantage of the poor. But, I just want people to be careful with a wholesale denunciation of tithing in general. I love my church. And I love the fact that we gave out over 700 backpacks and school supplies to children. As my pastor would say - "that is something that was done with your free will gifts." 

[Deleted]

I'll watch later. I used to work for a megachurch ministry, so I'll undoubtedly have visceral reactions.

That said, ITA with NitaX that tithing has a place in a reputable ministry that actually does good in the community and beyond.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

The prosperity gospel makes me so angry, particularly its one of those things where, if you aren't "prosperous" it's because you either didn't believe hard enough or didn't really sacrifice enough money. There's essentially no proving it wrong. So, congrats, Robert Tilton, for turning Christianity into Scientology. It takes a special size of balls for that kind of horse shit.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Oh, also, to @nitax point about tithing - I mean, my dad was a minister, so people's tithing kept me in clothes. We lived in a parsonage, although it was a tiny house before tiny houses were cool, not the $6.5 million dollar home that is featured there. Tithing and churches can do great work (and he even prefaces the segment with that point) but I just get so furious when I see a predatory old white man with a Brylcream pompadour and a shiny suit telling people if they just charge more money on their credit cards for "ministry," they'll have their debts wiped clean, if they just believe hard enough. It's such a horrible thing to do to people who are desperate and vulnerable. It infuriates me.

[Deleted]

I understand what tithing is. We do it. There are times I've struggled with it because as a SAHM we live on one income so giving 10% to church means I don't have much left to give to other causes I would like to. I do wish our church would do more for the community but they have a huge mortgage to pay off so for now that's where their money goes. I'm hoping they will be able to do more when that debt is gone.

[lyssbobiss, Command, B613]

Aug 17, 2015 14:20:33 GMT -5 @bugginnine said:

We'd be given the old "If you can afford Starbucks, you can afford to tithe" guilt trips every so often. I'd sit there and think, "If God needed my coffee money so badly, he would have blessed me with children that slept." Clearly caffeine is my religion.

Mine too. Praise the lord and pass the strong shit.

[SwimDeep]

O.M.G.

I LOVE this!!!

I called the number at the end...it's like he was talking directly to me

[expatpumpkin]

I LOVE John Oliver. He's the best thing that ever came from Jon Stewart... If we can't have Stewart, thank god we have Oliver

[Deleted]

So many thoughts.

First, I totally believe in the efforts of small or even mid-size and large churches who honestly use tithe or gift money to provide for mission trips and local outreach to improve lives. That's real.

Second, Kenneth Copeland should be fucking ashamed of himself and shaking in his probably-incredibly-overpriced-designer shoes to meet God when he dies for spending millions of dollars on an exorbitant home when his church is nonprofit and is supposed to be in the business of saving souls, not scavenging dollars. Fuck.

Third, here is my experience from working for several years for a television evangelist ministry.
- The person recorded their broadcasts in-house in a studio and knocked out several programs in each session. The programs often featured a guest and/or a teaching based on a biblical passage or concept. There was always an invitation and encouragement to send in offerings.
- This particular person did in fact go on a ton of mission trips to overseas countries; several staff and some viewers would pay to also travel to these. As far as I know, they were conducted with the intent of prayer and healing services for attendees, and to bring people to salvation in Jesus Christ. (So, for the most part, in line with what the mission was.) I"m sure they took offerings at each.
- This person was, I believe, very founded upon their relationship with God/Christ/the Holy Spirit and believed wholeheartedly in it. They were very intelligent and studied the Bible and biblical history so much that the person was a very good teacher and even created a Bible college (unaccredited). 
- This person had a very nice home in our area, but I wouldn't compare it to the Copeland compound. 
- This person did eventually acquire a private jet. I'm not going to call that over-the-top because the person was entering their elderly years, traveled with every single mission trip and taught/held meetings in each one, so the travel did wear down on the person - being able to quickly get into a plane and get to/from the site more rapidly and comfortably seemed reasonable though not at all necessary to life. Any ancillary support staff going on the trip did not get to ride in this plane; they had to/from fly commercially to the site.
- The ministry employed a 24-hour prayer center, where one could call toll-free to speak with a real person who would listen to their prayer requests. I worked in this center at one point for about six months (I had a data entry job, and rather than let us work for a full eight hours and have to pay for short-term disability insurance, they made us work for two hours of our shift in the prayer center.) One part of taking a prayer call is that we were required to "upsell" a ministry teaching tape: this meant that, even if the person's prayer request was about finances and how they can't afford their rent or groceries or healthcare bill, I had to ask them for an offering of at least $1 for me to send them a teaching tape about how God could help their finances. We could still send them the tape if they didn't give an offering, but we were required to ask. I eventually threatened to quit if I was going to be made to continue working on the prayer center lines, and I was allowed to work my 2 hours in the shipping department instead, which gave me insights into the next point...
- So much product. Prayer cloths, widows' mites, anointing oil packets, prayer booklets, pamphlets, (at the time) VHS tapes of ministry teachings, Bible college syllabuses (I just had to look that up as the correct plural for the word), cassette tapes and then eventually CDs. And of course, direct mail - John Oliver is spot on with how much it can be, and those are all very similar to the types which this ministry sent out.
- Many, many people employed at this ministry were normal, honest, fun, smart, and faith-driven people. We believed we were ultimately helping people, though I know I eventually left because I really did see it all as a big moneygrab, where any spiritual benefit to viewers or a fan base was certainly important, but hey we need those dollars!!!
- I was also eventually tired of how the central person was treated like a fucking rockstar. No. No you are not. You are a regular human being, with a human brain, human weaknesses, and human accountability for when you die and meet your maker. Please stop acting like you're Jesus and we should all be thankful to touch the hem of your robe.

Fourth, over my experience recounted above, I got to meet some other television evangelists and most of them (not all) definitely deserve the side-eye. 

Fifth, I know John mocked the speaking in tongues portion of the snippets. That was the only portion I took issue with, as "prayer language" or speaking in tongues is practiced by some faiths and congregations. I've done it. It's not weird to me. It does sound and seem strange. Meh. That in and of itself doesn't prove anyone of these individuals is wonky or nefarious.

All in all, I applaud John Oliver's efforts to shine more light on how the rules around religious institutions are too lax and need to be reexamined. I don't want to make it tougher for ministries that are doing honestly good work, with good intentions and solid accountability. But I'd be just fine if it made it tougher for erroneous ministries to take advantage of less-suspecting viewers.

[MeMyselfandI]

My manager who is Catholic has an interesting theory on tithing. She, and the church she attends, thinks that the 10% isn't just supposed to be money. They think it can be a combination of a bit of your time to the church, donation, help to others, etc. I was pleasantly surprised by that. And though I don't call myself a religious person, I can totally get down with that type of thinking. Some people just don't have the money to give, but that doesn't mean they can do other things.

[Deleted]

Its been a long time since i went to church, but im pretty sure jesus said something about it being harder for a rich man to fly a camel through a needles eye than to go to heaven or something.
I do remember jesus being skint all the time. Not really down with the rich preists and that.
Prosperity gospel sounds like bollocks to me.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2015 15:59:17 GMT -5 pennypenny said:

Aug 19, 2015 14:44:34 GMT -5 MeMyselfandI said:

My manager who is Catholic has an interesting theory on tithing. She, and the church she attends, thinks that the 10% isn't just supposed to be money. They think it can be a combination of a bit of your time to the church, donation, help to others, etc. I was pleasantly surprised by that. And though I don't call myself a religious person, I can totally get down with that type of thinking. Some people just don't have the money to give, but that doesn't mean they can do other things.

I grew up in the Catholic church and they definitely teach that tithing is your time, talent, and treasure. So yes, if you couldn't afford to give 10%, then you could donate time to the church. I know my mom caters and has donated her catering to the church many times. I think she does it once a month. I do not know if other denominations preach that.

I'm pretty sure I've heard that sermon in a Baptist church, and my current Lutheran one also says it (they're so much more timid about asking for money - very Norwegian). 

[meltoine]

The Catholic guidelines also,state that they recommend 5% to your local church and then the other 5% to other causes you believe in, obviously soloing as they don't contradict catholic teaching. But if you want to give 5% to your church and 5% to St. Jude's or something, that's totally cool.

[heyjude]

The one dude said to put your $1000 "donation" on your credit card and God would wipe clean the debt.

I mean c'mon!!!!! These are predators, clear and simple. Jesus would not approve.


(I just watched)