Volkswagen CEO admits to cheating consumers & environment

[WanderingWinoZ]

Volkswagen CEO admits to cheating consumers and the environment
www.csmonitor.com/Business/2015/0920/Volkswagen-CEO-admits-to-cheating-consumers-and-the-environment-video

Volkswagen admitted to intentionally cheating the Environmental Protection Agency’s Clean Air Act standards in over 500,000 of their diesel-powered cars.



The German automaker installed what EPA calls a “defeat device,” a software that masks the car’s true emissions during testing. The cars in question “contained software that turns off emissions controls when driving normally and turns them on when the car is undergoing an emissions test,” Cynthia Giles, Assistant Administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance, explained to Reuters.



“Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health,” Giles said in a press release by the EPA. “…EPA is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules. EPA will continue to investigate these very serious matters.”

When one of the cars-in-question is on the road, it emits as much as 40 times the level of pollutants allowed under The Clean Air Act.

“[Volkswagen] was cheating not just car buyers but the breathing public,” said Frank O’Donnell, director of Clean Air Watch.

California has issued a separate violation to Volkswagen and plans to work alongside the EPA and Justice Department for further investigation. The probe should not take long, investigators say, because the company has already admitted that this isn’t simply an oversight. “We have admitted to it…It is true,” a spokesman for Volkswagen said Sunday.

What’s next for Volkswagen drivers and dealers?

EPA officials say that owners of affected vehicles should expect recall notices within the next year. The recall includes almost 482,000 diesel Volkswagens sold in the US since 2009, including the Jetta, Beetle, Passat and Audi A3 models.


As for Volkswagen, the Justice Department could fine the automaker $37,500 for each recalled vehicle, for a possible total penalty of $18 billion.

“I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public,” Martin Winkerhorn, the CEO of Volkswagen, said in a press release Sunday. “We do not and will not tolerate violations of any kind of our internal rules or of the law,” adding that the company was fully cooperating with federal agencies.


But a simple apology might not be enough.

“They appear to have designed a system with the intention to mislead consumers and the government. If that’s proven true, it’s remarkable and outrageous. It would merit a heck a lot more than just a recall and a fine. We would see criminal prosecution,” Tyson Slocum, director of the energy program at Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy group, told the New York Times.


Tuning diesel engines to meet pollution regulations can be expensive and time-intensive, and pollution-controls usually decrease performance. "When the pollution controls are functioning on these vehicles, there's a trade-off between performance and emissions," explained Drew Kodjak, executive director of the International Council on Clean Transportation.

VW sales fell 2.8 percent this year, while industrywide sales rose 3.8 percent.

In an effort to improve US sales, the German automaker continuously bragged of their cars as a “clean, fuel efficient and powerful” diesel option. The company has struggled to stay competitive in the world’s second-biggest car market, but recently seemed to find their footing by marketing “clean diesel” vehicles.

“This is one of the companies that’s been trying to get Americans to buy diesels,” Dan Becker, director of the Safe Climate Campaign a Washington-based environmental group, told Bloomberg. “They’ve banked their future in a significant way on diesel. They assumed the EPA would never catch them at it, and that was a huge risk.”

[iammalcolmx]

I heard about this!!

[pixy0stix]

*squinty eyes*

[laurenpetro]

Looks like I can start pricing out a new SUV in a few months (devil)

[bugandbibs]

This crosses VW off the list of potential cars.

I think this speaks to the culture of car companies deciding it's easier and cheaper to settle lawsuits than deal with recalls or known issues. Although in this case I believe it was deliberate fraud (as opposed to covering up after the fact) and that's even worse.

[pixy0stix]

See also - this is why we're all going to die. No one gives a fuck.

[pescalita]

I hope he goes to jail

[curbsideprophet]

Well this just confirms that I never want to own a VW.

[Saudade]

One of the reasons we bought our VW was because of the low/no emissions.

This makes me so angry. I wish I could just get rid of the car with snapping my fingers.

[josieposy]

Holy shit. How did they get caught?

[WanderingWinoZ]

Sept 21, 2015 9:39:56 GMT -5 Saudade said:

One of the reasons we bought our VW was because of the low/no emissions.

This makes me so angry. I wish I could just get rid of the car with snapping my fingers.

Start looking around for a class action / civil suit in addition to the criminal ones.

I work in the auto industry & although 99% of what I deal with is product liability, it's the fraud/financial lawsuits that are really scary to the car makers.  (i.e. when everybody wanted to sue ford - not for their firestone tires & rollovers, but due to a loss of value on re-sale b/c of the recall)

[Saudade]

Sept 21, 2015 9:55:46 GMT -5 WanderingWinoZ said:

Sept 21, 2015 9:39:56 GMT -5 Saudade said:

One of the reasons we bought our VW was because of the low/no emissions.

This makes me so angry. I wish I could just get rid of the car with snapping my fingers.

Start looking around for a class action / civil suit in addition to the criminal ones.

I work in the auto industry & although 99% of what I deal with is product liability, it's the fraud/financial lawsuits that are really scary to the car makers.  (i.e. when everybody wanted to sue ford - not for their firestone tires & rollovers, but due to a loss of value on re-sale b/c of the recall)

This is a good point. We only have 4 months of payments left on it. sob. I can't imagine trying to resell it once this news becomes more widespread. 

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. 

[charminglife]

This is a good summary as to what exactly VW was doing to beat the tests:

How did this alleged cheat work exactly?

First, we need to start by talking about urea.

In order to meet tougher emissions regulations that went into effect in 2008, most automakers started supplying their diesel cars with tanks of a urea-based solution (often referred to as “AdBlue”) that cuts down on nitrous-oxide emissions.

Many larger diesel engines on big sedans and SUV, including some from Audi as well as competitors at BMW and Mercedes, use such a system. But VW and Audi said their 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine was able to meet the requirements without a urea injection system — although many people have wondered exactly how. (Update: Just to clarify, newer TDI models like the MK7 Golf, made from 2015 on, do include urea injection.)

On Friday, the EPA announced they found the TDI cars contained “a sophisticated software algorithm” which detected when the car was being tested for emissions. When that happens, the software drastically reduces the emissions as compared to normal driving, indicating to testers that the car had passed.

Basically, it’s like taking a test when you already know what the answers are. It appears the cheat device was present on all TDI cars, not just ones sent for emissions testing.

jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-dieselgate-volkswagens-diesel-cheating-c-1731857018

[Cicero]

Sept 21, 2015 10:01:16 GMT -5 charminglife said:

This is a good summary as to what exactly VW was doing to beat the tests:

How did this alleged cheat work exactly?

First, we need to start by talking about urea.

In order to meet tougher emissions regulations that went into effect in 2008, most automakers started supplying their diesel cars with tanks of a urea-based solution (often referred to as “AdBlue”) that cuts down on nitrous-oxide emissions.

Many larger diesel engines on big sedans and SUV, including some from Audi as well as competitors at BMW and Mercedes, use such a system. But VW and Audi said their 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine was able to meet the requirements without a urea injection system — although many people have wondered exactly how. (Update: Just to clarify, newer TDI models like the MK7 Golf, made from 2015 on, do include urea injection.)

On Friday, the EPA announced they found the TDI cars contained “a sophisticated software algorithm” which detected when the car was being tested for emissions. When that happens, the software drastically reduces the emissions as compared to normal driving, indicating to testers that the car had passed.

Basically, it’s like taking a test when you already know what the answers are. It appears the cheat device was present on all TDI cars, not just ones sent for emissions testing.

jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-dieselgate-volkswagens-diesel-cheating-c-1731857018

This kind of makes me wonder if it's not just an issue with US-sold cars and is a much bigger deal than it looks. Or are all US-marketed TDIs different specs than their EU-sold counterparts?

[charminglife]

Cicero, I think the European cars are OK - I believe the discrepancy in emissions between the US and EU is what started the investigation.

Jalopnik linked to this article from Bloomberg, I haven't had a chance to read it yet: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-19/volkswagen-emissions-cheating-found-by-curious-clean-air-group

[krillaz]

Sept 21, 2015 10:21:03 GMT -5 Cicero said:

Sept 21, 2015 10:01:16 GMT -5 charminglife said:

This is a good summary as to what exactly VW was doing to beat the tests:

How did this alleged cheat work exactly?

First, we need to start by talking about urea.

In order to meet tougher emissions regulations that went into effect in 2008, most automakers started supplying their diesel cars with tanks of a urea-based solution (often referred to as “AdBlue”) that cuts down on nitrous-oxide emissions.

Many larger diesel engines on big sedans and SUV, including some from Audi as well as competitors at BMW and Mercedes, use such a system. But VW and Audi said their 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine was able to meet the requirements without a urea injection system — although many people have wondered exactly how. (Update: Just to clarify, newer TDI models like the MK7 Golf, made from 2015 on, do include urea injection.)

On Friday, the EPA announced they found the TDI cars contained “a sophisticated software algorithm” which detected when the car was being tested for emissions. When that happens, the software drastically reduces the emissions as compared to normal driving, indicating to testers that the car had passed.

Basically, it’s like taking a test when you already know what the answers are. It appears the cheat device was present on all TDI cars, not just ones sent for emissions testing.

jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-dieselgate-volkswagens-diesel-cheating-c-1731857018

This kind of makes me wonder if it's not just an issue with US-sold cars and is a much bigger deal than it looks. Or are all US-marketed TDIs different specs than their EU-sold counterparts?

Lurker here - this is my field of work.

They use different engine calibrations for different regions because the emission regs are different for the US vs Euro.

[curbsideprophet]

Sept 21, 2015 9:39:56 GMT -5 Saudade said:

One of the reasons we bought our VW was because of the low/no emissions.

This makes me so angry. I wish I could just get rid of the car with snapping my fingers.

I would be pissed too, I am sorry.

[sfy]

I really need to stop thinking there is a such thing as a trustworthy corporation.

[krillaz]

I am beyond shocked - this is so immoral from my engineering perspective. I actually run these emissions test for a living (among other things) and I can't really even describe the slimy feeling I am getting by proxy.

I'm wondering how you guys feel on the fact that they could be hit with an $18 billion fine vs the 1 billion GM is paying? Of course there could be a reduction in that number as it's just a projection. One one hand, this was planned vs GM's after the fact cover up; on the other hand, it's increased air pollution vs actual lives lost.

[pixy0stix]

I'm now wondering if any of these vehicles passed the emission testing in CO.

[krillaz]

Sept 21, 2015 10:43:59 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I'm now wondering if any of these vehicles passed the emission testing in CO.

Looks like CO only looks at "smoke" (particulate matter) not NOx. When NOx goes up, generally PM goes down so not an issue in passing.

[heliocentric]

I have an '09 diesel Jetta and I'm furious about this. Diesels cost extra and we were willing to pay because we wanted higher mpg and cleaner emissions. I still like the car and it has high miles and isn't worth much anymore, but I'm pissed that I was lied to and that VW didn't environmental laws applied to them.

Is there a class action law suit yet? Because this is shitty on multiple fronts.

[Saudade]

Sept 21, 2015 11:42:12 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I have an '09 diesel Jetta and I'm furious about this. Diesels cost extra and we were willing to pay because we wanted higher mpg and cleaner emissions. I still like the car and it has high miles and isn't worth much anymore, but I'm pissed that I was lied to and that VW didn't environmental laws applied to them.

Is there a class action law suit yet? Because this is shitty on multiple fronts.

This is us too. 09 TDi. Same on bolded. I am so so angry. 

[penguingrrl]

That's insane. We have a non-diesel beetle (so no affected) but we felt really good about buying VW because they have always held themselves out to be concerned about the environment. I'm so disappointed in them. I feel like the free market is a great way to ensure there's no such thing as ethics in a corporation. Money speaks and nobody cares about accountability unless they're forced and can't find a way to cheat instead.

[ttt]

Sept 21, 2015 10:40:40 GMT -5 krillaz said:

I am beyond shocked - this is so immoral from my engineering perspective. I actually run these emissions test for a living (among other things) and I can't really even describe the slimy feeling I am getting by proxy.

I'm wondering how you guys feel on the fact that they could be hit with an $18 billion fine vs the 1 billion GM is paying? Of course there could be a reduction in that number as it's just a projection. One one hand, this was planned vs GM's after the fact cover up; on the other hand, it's increased air pollution vs actual lives lost.

I don't really like to compare them because they're both bad and they're different situations, but I think $1 billion for knowingly causing people's deaths is appalling. You should not be able to buy your way out of a negligent homicide or manslaughter charge. 

[scout8]

Until we decide to get serious and start prosecuting higher ups criminally, nothing is going to change. All that ever happens is that the company pays a big fine. Clearly, it isn't enough of a deterrent when this sort of thing keeps happening over and over.

[cattledogkisses]

They invented something for the sole purpose of skirting the law and cheating on the emissions tests? That's a whole new level of devious right there.

I hope they're criminally prosecuted.

[Susie]

Sept 21, 2015 11:42:12 GMT -5 heliocentric said:

I have an '09 diesel Jetta and I'm furious about this. Diesels cost extra and we were willing to pay because we wanted higher mpg and cleaner emissions. I still like the car and it has high miles and isn't worth much anymore, but I'm pissed that I was lied to and that VW didn't environmental laws applied to them.

Is there a class action law suit yet? Because this is shitty on multiple fronts.

We just bought a 2014 less than a year ago - a TDI Sportwagen.  I have loved it, but man.  This is so appalling.  

I'm also curious what, post-recall, it will be like to drive.  The torque and fuel efficiency were big selling points, but what are the odds they will be able to hit those marks and actually comply with emissions requirements? 

[josieposy]

More on how they got busted:

www.vox.com/2015/9/21/9365667/volkswagen-clean-diesel-recall-passenger-cars

[summer]

My ex-banker H (though himself also outraged at VW) finds all the VW outrage interesting because banks.