Just because you don't relate with all feminists or just because feminism is not your primary fight or just because you have other stronger more important priorities doesn't mean that you aren't a feminist. Not being connected to a particular branch of feminism or the way that feminism is often portrayed also doesn't mean you aren't a feminist.
I hear some of you saying that you feel let down by the majority movement as it is often or currently expressed by white women in the US in 2015.
But that wasn't the question.
Because to be clear, you all still agree that men and women have equal capabilities and abilities and should have equal rights and protections. Correct?
you aren't talking to me, but man...you see that this tone is condescending as hell. Correct?
Just because you don't relate with all feminists or just because feminism is not your primary fight or just because you have other stronger more important priorities doesn't mean that you aren't a feminist. Not being connected to a particular branch of feminism or the way that feminism is often portrayed also doesn't mean you aren't a feminist.
I hear some of you saying that you feel let down by the majority movement as it is often or currently expressed by white women in the US in 2015.
But that wasn't the question.
Because to be clear, you all still agree that men and women have equal capabilities and abilities and should have equal rights and protections. Correct?
I, myself, say I'm a feminist. But I definitely get what others are saying. I could totally see not identifying with a movement that seeks to exclude me. Or if not exclude, that doesn't seek to include me. Why should someone who is an afterthought in the movement identify with it? I can love golf without being a member of the country club that owns the course and won't let me in.
Just because you don't relate with all feminists or just because feminism is not your primary fight or just because you have other stronger more important priorities doesn't mean that you aren't a feminist. Not being connected to a particular branch of feminism or the way that feminism is often portrayed also doesn't mean you aren't a feminist.
I hear some of you saying that you feel let down by the majority movement as it is often or currently expressed by white women in the US in 2015.
But that wasn't the question.
Because to be clear, you all still agree that men and women have equal capabilities and abilities and should have equal rights and protections. Correct?
This tone is not helpful to the discussion being had here.
I apologize. I am trying to learn from this thread, and clearly did not phrase my post appropriately.
Apparently some believe that believing in/agreeing with the definition of feminism does not mean one is as a feminist. I was trying to differentiate between being a feminist by definition and identifying with the feminist movement in the US, which I feel are very different things.
This tone is not helpful to the discussion being had here.
I apologize. I am trying to learn from this thread, and clearly did not phrase my post appropriately.
Apparently some believe that believing in/agreeing with the definition of feminism does not mean one is as a feminist. I was trying to differentiate between being a feminist by definition and identifying with the feminist movement in the US, which I feel are very different things.
I think everyone here has done a good job of explaining how and why they label (or don't label) themselves. And it's not because of a lack of understanding, or confusion on the "meaning" of feminism.
Sorry, I'm catching up. Because I voted for Obama partly because he was Black and I thought that growing-up and being Black brings a different perspective to presidential leadership that would be a welcomed change, I was wrong? I know a lot of people (in my mostly white area) that were all, "It's time for a Black President." as one of their reasons. Heck, my all white workplace (all male, except me - also) stopped work, got drinks and watched the streaming of his inauguration as a celebration of the monumental moment.
A lot of Obama haters insist that the only reason Obama was elected was because of black people and the only reason black people voted for Obama was because he was black. Because we are stupid.
You know, in 2008, I cared about this (ie. not wanting someone to vote for Obama just because he was black, or HRC because she was female). But now, I kind of think, WTF cares if that's the reason? It's not any more or less asinine than voting for Trump because he's not a seasoned politician or he "says what everyone's thinking", and plenty of (dumbass) people seem to think that's a legitimate reason to vote for someone. So why isn't wanting someone of your own race or gender in the white house good enough?
Late to the discussion, but I've been nodding along (and liking) many of the posts. I consider myself a feminist, married to a feminist, even though some of the choices I've made may not be seen by others as particularly feminist.
Another great thread, and esp. @koko's point about when I say I want to be treated equally to men I mean white men. Because if I really think about it that is what I mean; I want to have equal power, equal right to define my own destiny, equal pay, etc. compared to the group in power. An it is insensitive at best for me to say that and dismiss a large population of men who don't have that power/standing. So even if I mean to include WOC in my equality drive, I can see how my very word choice can seem alienating.
Thanks again, CEP, for giving me something to reflect on.
Another great thread, and esp. @koko's point about when I say I want to be treated equally to men I mean white men. Because if I really think about it that is what I mean; I want to have equal power, equal right to define my own destiny, equal pay, etc. compared to the group in power. An it is insensitive at best for me to say that and dismiss a large population of men who don't have that power/standing. So even if I mean to include WOC in my equality drive, I can see how my very word choice can seem alienating.
Thanks again, CEP, for giving me something to reflect on.
The next wave of feminists should stop making it about being equal to (white) men and fucking make it about taking the power all together.
I am only half-joking.
ETA: I am not a man-hater. Just objectively think women do a better job.
Yes, I am. I said this in the other thread, but I am a black feminist and I am very clear on the difference. There are some places where my wants and goals intersect with "mainstream" feminism, but there are things I want that don't matter to them enough to do anything about it, and things they want that don't matter to me enough to do anything about it. From all those racist white suffragists to the love and adoration of women like Lena Dunham, Amy Schumer and Tina Fey (all of whom tend to show or discuss black women in a negative light, that is, when they can be bothered to show or discuss us at all) to Patricia Arquette's "Blacks, you owe US now" comments, it has always been clear to me that white women feminists as a whole have an agenda that sees women of color as a non-factor or afterthought, at best.
That's why I say that things like that gentlemen thread and earlier this year, the women in Hollywood thread don't have anything to do with me. It caused me to get called out of my name on this board by a former regular and another former regular to be quite offended lol, but I am very clear on and quite confident about which battles are mine and which aren't, and if that offends anyone, I promise, you will live .
I've just started this thread so this is probably long gone. I always try to be aware of how shows/movies portray black women, but I hadn't realized this specifically wrt Tina Fey's work. But after reading this, I can only sit here and nod. (back to reading)
This isn't totally fair though. Threads get buried all the time depending on the hot thread of the moment. I saw it, but never got around to it because I am in and out and sometimes get distracted by shiny things. I'm happy to read it later today.
I don't know I've noticed it with other threads outside of BLM and police and black folks. It seems to me that a lot of threads that are about just trying to navigate institutionalize racism are the ones that get buried or only black women comment on them.
It's great if you are there to read and earn but the silence makes it feel lonely. It's ok to post that you'd never realized something happened or even just wow that is hard. But silence feels like the only people who care about these issues is us.
If you're in it with us you have to say so because I can't see you nodding behind your screen.
For some reason this thread was blocked at work so I'm just now reading it, but need to tell you that the bolded really struck me. I'm guilty of reading and not posting. There are times I feel like I can't add much and other times I'm learning so much that I'm really just taking it all in and processing. But because you've articulated this I will try to stop just nodding behind the screen and start to vocalize my thoughts.
Yes, I am. I said this in the other thread, but I am a black feminist and I am very clear on the difference. There are some places where my wants and goals intersect with "mainstream" feminism, but there are things I want that don't matter to them enough to do anything about it, and things they want that don't matter to me enough to do anything about it. From all those racist white suffragists to the love and adoration of women like Lena Dunham, Amy Schumer and Tina Fey (all of whom tend to show or discuss black women in a negative light, that is, when they can be bothered to show or discuss us at all) to Patricia Arquette's "Blacks, you owe US now" comments, it has always been clear to me that white women feminists as a whole have an agenda that sees women of color as a non-factor or afterthought, at best.
That's why I say that things like that gentlemen thread and earlier this year, the women in Hollywood thread don't have anything to do with me. It caused me to get called out of my name on this board by a former regular and another former regular to be quite offended lol, but I am very clear on and quite confident about which battles are mine and which aren't, and if that offends anyone, I promise, you will live .
I've just started this thread so this is probably long gone. I always try to be aware of how shows/movies portray black women, but I hadn't realized this specifically wrt Tina Fey's work. But after reading this, I can only sit here and nod. (back to reading)
Tina Fey is the one that pains me the most, because I actually like her...but she's so shady. From Tracy's wife to the random black women workers, every character is basically the same person. I feel like I thought the same thing about Kimmy Schmidt, but it's been so long that I can't remember anyone but Titus' wife and I don't remember much of her appearance in the finale. It's always the same schtick with her, though.
Eta - and what about that crap with Jenna (I don't know her name on Kimmy Schmidt or how to spell her real last name) actually being a Native American woman , who thought her life on the reservation was so awful that she disowned her parents and now walks around like a blonde haired white woman? Like, she's never featured a Native American that I can even remember on 30 Rock and this is how she wants to lead in on TUKS? A mess.
Am I the only person on this board that didn't take a gender or women's studies class in college? I was a science major and avoided anything with papers like the plague. Now I realize how many interesting discussions I likely missed and how much I need to learn.
To the original question, it's not a label I've ever used to define myself but I do believe in the basics tenets of feminism. But I guess on a daily basis I'm more worried about my rights as related to my sexuality than my rights as related to my gender. I fully understand there is a lot of overlap and I believe some of my choice to never specifically identify as feminist is because society at large tends to assume all lesbians are by default feminist.
Post by redshoejune on Oct 16, 2015 7:23:03 GMT -5
twotrue I was an engineering major and also avoided anything where I would have to write. My sister was shocked when I told her I never took a blue book exam.
Am I the only person on this board that didn't take a gender or women's studies class in college? I was a science major and avoided anything with papers like the plague. Now I realize how many interesting discussions I likely missed and how much I need to learn.
To the original question, it's not a label I've ever used to define myself but I do believe in the basics tenets of feminism. But I guess on a daily basis I'm more worried about my rights as related to my sexuality than my rights as related to my gender. I fully understand there is a lot of overlap and I believe some of my choice to never specifically identify as feminist is because society at large tends to assume all lesbians are by default feminist.
I never took a women's or gender studies class either. Although I took enough women's history to become familiar with many of the broad themes, it was discussing and focusing on it from a very different perspective.
Am I the only person on this board that didn't take a gender or women's studies class in college? I was a science major and avoided anything with papers like the plague. Now I realize how many interesting discussions I likely missed and how much I need to learn.
To the original question, it's not a label I've ever used to define myself but I do believe in the basics tenets of feminism. But I guess on a daily basis I'm more worried about my rights as related to my sexuality than my rights as related to my gender. I fully understand there is a lot of overlap and I believe some of my choice to never specifically identify as feminist is because society at large tends to assume all lesbians are by default feminist.
You didn't miss terribly much. I vastly prefer the conversations here. Most of the posters have grown out of their puffed-up college selves, and their views are much more nuanced.
heyjude I am calling you out because you are one of the staunch feminists and it has always rubbed me wrong that you didn't participate in the intersectional feminism thread and I don't see that you have participated in this one either. So please do.
Yes I'm a feminist. It's an innate part of me.
I've read the intersectional feminist thread and skimmed this one (it was 6 pages by 9 am yesterday and honestly my focus has been debate aftermath and election)) but I haven't particpated. This doesn't mean I have not referenced it in my real life. I have. Or thought about it. I have. Or adjusted the way I respond to women's issues. I have. It's changed the way I have thought about feminism.
Yes, I am. I said this in the other thread, but I am a black feminist and I am very clear on the difference. There are some places where my wants and goals intersect with "mainstream" feminism, but there are things I want that don't matter to them enough to do anything about it, and things they want that don't matter to me enough to do anything about it. From all those racist white suffragists to the love and adoration of women like Lena Dunham, Amy Schumer and Tina Fey (all of whom tend to show or discuss black women in a negative light, that is, when they can be bothered to show or discuss us at all) to Patricia Arquette's "Blacks, you owe US now" comments, it has always been clear to me that white women feminists as a whole have an agenda that sees women of color as a non-factor or afterthought, at best.
I've just started this thread so this is probably long gone. I always try to be aware of how shows/movies portray black women, but I hadn't realized this specifically wrt Tina Fey's work. But after reading this, I can only sit here and nod. (back to reading)
This is really interesting and as a white woman, I had never noticed this before (read: privilege), but wow. It has given me a lot to think about. Thank you sfy for making this point.
This is really interesting and as a white woman, I had never noticed this before (read: privilege), but wow. It has given me a lot to think about. Thank you sfy for making this point.
i sit in this camp. although the only thing i know with tina frey is baby momma and i didnt even see that movie.
i am not asking for proof, BTW. i take you at your word that she is problematic and that is both worrying at an overall level and on a personal one since i didnt even see it.
I know you're not asking for proof, but I think I did give examples: Tracy's wife on 30 Rock (who was portrayed by Sherri Shepherd and I know I don't need to talk about those women from The View again), Jack's West Indian nanny, the episode about how black women love Chris where there was at least one hypersexualized black woman fawning over him, the time when they talked about how the only people taking the Newark to Atlantic City flights were black women, the "Native American" woman as portrayed by Jane K. on TUKS, and Titus, Kimmy's black gay sidekick, having a wife who comes to hunt him down. She rarely acknowledges the existence of women of color, but when she does, it's to show us as servants and stereotypes? I'm clear that it's comedy and everyone is being mocked, but if she can't round out women of color the same way she rounds out while women, just leave us out of it--she wouldn't be the first and won't be the last.
i would think i would have heard it in passing, or on the feminist blogs i read and follow but nope.
Do you read any feminist blogs written by women of color?? Because if not, by saying that, you're really just making the point of this thread, which is that movement does not consider us, at best, and at worst, harms us.
On the topic, the older I get, the more I consider myself a feminist and the more aware I have become of how much sexism pervades our society.
Just reading the thread for the first time and didn't make way through the whole thing but so much this. I was clueless even 10 years ago about so much of how professional women can be treated at certain places the older I get the more I see the need for feminism.
I've read the intersectional feminist thread and skimmed this one (it was 6 pages by 9 am yesterday and honestly my focus has been debate aftermath and election)) but I haven't particpated. This doesn't mean I have not referenced it in my real life. I have. Or thought about it. I have. Or adjusted the way I respond to women's issues. I have. It's changed the way I have thought about feminism.
But I still identify as feminist.
And you may do all of those things, but unless you SAY SOMETHING about it on here, the black folks have no idea that it's happening.
That is why I'm all up in my feelings about people just listening/processing/etc but not participating in any threads on here. You don't need to have some deeply meaningful thing to say. Shit, half the time all we're doing is talking about how something is bullshit or making a sarcastic remark because we are fed up with the nonsense. We want to see you're fed up with it too. We want you to come in and say "Wow, that's some bullshit. How terrible." Even if that's all you say. Ask questions.
And when you are one of the most vocal feminists on the board, and intersectional feminism comes up and you got crickets, folks are going to notice. Like if a discussion on how environmental issues affect poorer communities and therefore more strongly affect POC happened and Pixy was suddenly silent.
Or in all the threads about how gerrymandering and voting laws restrict the power of the minority vote ESF was conspicuously absent.
This is cool and all, but I'm of the opinion that people prioritize who/what is important to them. If you see someone in every feminism thread except the ones on intersectional feminism, take a hint yo lol! It's not a priority for them. If even when tagged and ask to comment, the comments are vague as hell, get a clue! It's not of interest. Personally, I don't have a problem with people not commenting, I'd rather the posters who are genuinely interested comment and contribute to the dialogue rather than people get dragged in just to throw out a blurb. I don't want the pressure to comment on things that don't matter to me and I don't want to put that pressure on anyone. Love who loves you, I say. I think all this does is make people think they need to pop into threads saying things like "here!" like we are taking some kind of roll call. I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, you can keep that shit, it just lengthens a thread for no reason.