Do you read any feminist blogs written by women of color?? Because if not, by saying that, you're really just making the point of this thread, which is that movement does not consider us, at best, and at worst, harms us.
no. i know that. i totally got that.
jezebel used to have better representation. they went downhill after lindy west left.
Am I the only person on this board that didn't take a gender or women's studies class in college? I was a science major and avoided anything with papers like the plague. Now I realize how many interesting discussions I likely missed and how much I need to learn.
To the original question, it's not a label I've ever used to define myself but I do believe in the basics tenets of feminism. But I guess on a daily basis I'm more worried about my rights as related to my sexuality than my rights as related to my gender. I fully understand there is a lot of overlap and I believe some of my choice to never specifically identify as feminist is because society at large tends to assume all lesbians are by default feminist.
I was an English major. I never took a specific womens studies course, but a lot of my lot classes were gender-focused.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I've read the intersectional feminist thread and skimmed this one (it was 6 pages by 9 am yesterday and honestly my focus has been debate aftermath and election)) but I haven't particpated. This doesn't mean I have not referenced it in my real life. I have. Or thought about it. I have. Or adjusted the way I respond to women's issues. I have. It's changed the way I have thought about feminism.
But I still identify as feminist.
And you may do all of those things, but unless you SAY SOMETHING about it on here, the black folks have no idea that it's happening.
That is why I'm all up in my feelings about people just listening/processing/etc but not participating in any threads on here. You don't need to have some deeply meaningful thing to say. Shit, half the time all we're doing is talking about how something is bullshit or making a sarcastic remark because we are fed up with the nonsense. We want to see you're fed up with it too. We want you to come in and say "Wow, that's some bullshit. How terrible." Even if that's all you say. Ask questions.
And when you are one of the most vocal feminists on the board, and intersectional feminism comes up and you got crickets, folks are going to notice. Like if a discussion on how environmental issues affect poorer communities and therefore more strongly affect POC happened and Pixy was suddenly silent.
Or in all the threads about how gerrymandering and voting laws restrict the power of the minority vote ESF was conspicuously absent.
This actually brings up something I've been thinking for a while - that as a white woman who recently (the last few years) had her eyes opened to just how pervasive these issues are - I don't feel I have the right to be fed up. It's still new to me and I feel that just throwing up my hands because it all feels helpless and hopeless at times, is it's own kind of privilege.
Not sure if that makes any sense, I haven't had my morning coffee yet here in PDT.
And when you are one of the most vocal feminists on the board, and intersectional feminism comes up and you got crickets, folks are going to notice. Like if a discussion on how environmental issues affect poorer communities and therefore more strongly affect POC happened and Pixy was suddenly silent.
I would hope that if a discussion like that happened and I didn't say anything that I'd get tagged in the convo, because if I wasn't saying something I probably did legitimately miss the thread.
I think a lot of the problems with the feminist movement are emblematic of a lot of the problems with the progressive movement in general. White people do not make space for the unique issues that POC in America face. It's all whitewashed or brushed under the rug. And I think I have been extremely vocal on here on that front. Nothing crystallized that more for me than watching white progressives disgustingly implode over BLM disruptions of Bernie Sanders. And feminism does not escape this problem either, thanks to these threads, I'm becoming more aware of. It goes beyond opening doors or who pays for what on a date but whose voices get to be heard or validated? Are white feminists marching arm and arm with undocumented Latinas who need healthcare? Or demanding benefits and higher pay for the Mexican nannies of their white children? No. And even if I'm not ::::nodding my head::::: in every single one of these threads, I'm married to a person of color and we are raising two daughters in this environment and this is not an issue that goes ignored our household. Although admittedly in our many discussions of political spaces POC are allowed a voice, we talk about it from a general progressive problem and not also a feminist one. But it clearly is.
Post by earlgreyhot on Oct 16, 2015 12:30:45 GMT -5
There is so much in these threads. I'm not particularly good at expressing myself on a good day, much less when I am trying to write out my thoughts that are literally changing as I type. I've written a ton of things over the literal hour this window has been open, but nothing coherent.
All I can do is sincerely apologize we white people are so insufferable??
Post by pinkdutchtulips on Oct 16, 2015 12:36:27 GMT -5
This may be long winded ...
I am … might not be militant about it, but absolutely, I’m a feminist.
My mom was a part of the first wave of feminists in the late 60’s/early 70’s and what she passed along to her 3 girls is that yes, feminism is about equality between the sexes. If you both do the same job and have the same credentials there is NO reason why you should be paid less bc you have to sit when you pee. At the same token, she instill in us that feminism is also about CHOICES … the choice to work or be a sahm; the choice to get married, stay single or cohabitate forever; the choice to have kids or not have kids ….. and that is no way RIGHT way to do things.
Over the summer I was a part of a #RosieRally, to celebrate the 70th anniversary of VJ Day. The Rosie the Riveter Trust held a Rosie Rally in Richmond, CA (site of the one of the largest shipbuilding operations during WWII) to break the existing world record for most women dressed up as Rosie the Riveter in one place (we did it ! 1084 of us, breaking the existing 776 record). They had original Rosies there (pushing into their mid 90’s !!) and it got me thinking that this was the FIRST time that women were encouraged to work outside of the home to support the war effort in manufacturing bc the guys who typically held those jobs were fighting overseas. This was the first time these women were making their OWN money. There was a path that highlighted some interesting factoids (24 hr childcare was 70 cents a day BUT a woman only earned $31/month L yay for things NOT changing in 70 plus years grrrr) but also quotes like the woman who framed her first paycheck bc she was SO PROUD that it was HER MONEY, not her dad’s, husband’s or brother’s but HER’S !! On the way home it got me thinking, that was the first time women had any sort of autonomy, a sense of financial independence and when the war was over, they were told to basically hand their jobs back over the guys returning home and to get married and make babies. Buzzkill !
It also got me thinking about Betty Friedan and her book the Feminine Mystique … that ‘lost’ feeling that some women experienced bc they weren’t fulfilled by taking care of their husband, kids and house. It made me wonder how many of those “Rosies” who had worked during the war, missed that time in their lives ?!? and made vows that THEIR daughters (my mom’s generation) wouldn’t feel the same sort of ‘trapped’ feeling their mothers did, sparking what eventually became the feminist movement. My mom was encouraged to blaze her own trail whatever that might be and she in turn encouraged her girls to do that same.
Not to leave out my brother, my mom taught him how to cook, clean and do laundry too. My sil thanks my mom whenever she sees her for teaching my brother these things lol.
I have all the books I could need, and what more could I need than books? I shall only engage in commerce if books are the coin. -- Catherynne M. Valente
I just got through this to the last page and was going to ask for suggested reading material (beyond these threads, which are fantastic reading material in themselves.)
I do identify as a feminist, and the recent discussions here have opened my eyes to what that actually means and what I intend it to mean.
Am I the only person on this board that didn't take a gender or women's studies class in college? I was a science major and avoided anything with papers like the plague. Now I realize how many interesting discussions I likely missed and how much I need to learn.
To the original question, it's not a label I've ever used to define myself but I do believe in the basics tenets of feminism. But I guess on a daily basis I'm more worried about my rights as related to my sexuality than my rights as related to my gender. I fully understand there is a lot of overlap and I believe some of my choice to never specifically identify as feminist is because society at large tends to assume all lesbians are by default feminist.
I was an English major. I never took a specific womens studies course, but a lot of my lot classes were gender-focused.
Same, except for history and communications instead of English. I feel like I always WANTED to take into to women's studies or more sociology-focused classes, but I also had a double minor and graduated early, so non-required classes ended up being few and far between.
I am … might not be militant about it, but absolutely, I’m a feminist.
My mom was a part of the first wave of feminists in the late 60’s/early 70’s and what she passed along to her 3 girls is that yes, feminism is about equality between the sexes. If you both do the same job and have the same credentials there is NO reason why you should be paid less bc you have to sit when you pee. At the same token, she instill in us that feminism is also about CHOICES … the choice to work or be a sahm; the choice to get married, stay single or cohabitate forever; the choice to have kids or not have kids ….. and that is no way RIGHT way to do things.
Over the summer I was a part of a #RosieRally, to celebrate the 70th anniversary of VJ Day. The Rosie the Riveter Trust held a Rosie Rally in Richmond, CA (site of the one of the largest shipbuilding operations during WWII) to break the existing world record for most women dressed up as Rosie the Riveter in one place (we did it ! 1084 of us, breaking the existing 776 record). They had original Rosies there (pushing into their mid 90’s !!) and it got me thinking that this was the FIRST time that women were encouraged to work outside of the home to support the war effort in manufacturing bc the guys who typically held those jobs were fighting overseas. This was the first time these women were making their OWN money. There was a path that highlighted some interesting factoids (24 hr childcare was 70 cents a day BUT a woman only earned $31/month L yay for things NOT changing in 70 plus years grrrr) but also quotes like the woman who framed her first paycheck bc she was SO PROUD that it was HER MONEY, not her dad’s, husband’s or brother’s but HER’S !! On the way home it got me thinking, that was the first time women had any sort of autonomy, a sense of financial independence and when the war was over, they were told to basically hand their jobs back over the guys returning home and to get married and make babies. Buzzkill !
Well, kind of. I won't deny that was an important moment in our country. And looking at the post war economic "success" (yet the oppression of women and minorities at that time as well) is kind of fascinating.
But I think this is where intersectional feminism can come in and change the narrative. WOC have always had to work, usually cooking food for white people and raising white people's babies. To a lesser extent, working class women have also always had to work, and during the Great Depression, with a male unemployment rate of 25% overall, there were still jobs that would only be done by women, like housecleaning or laundering. And many of those women had to support their entire household because of the unemployment among working class men. Prior to that, during the gilded age, women and children worked in horrifying factory conditions. Prior to that, they worked in things like textile mills - again, in horrifying conditions. And at the same time mostly white, poor women were working in textile mills, black women were working as slaves.
That's not to say that Rosie the Riveter wasn't a wake up call to middle class women. Middle class and upper middle class women had their earning power and opportunities severely curtailed, as well. WWII paved the way for women to move into white collar jobs in the middle and later part of the 20th century. But I think it behooves us to remember the differences in economic gains and opportunities for various classes and races throughout time.
I am … might not be militant about it, but absolutely, I’m a feminist.
My mom was a part of the first wave of feminists in the late 60’s/early 70’s and what she passed along to her 3 girls is that yes, feminism is about equality between the sexes. If you both do the same job and have the same credentials there is NO reason why you should be paid less bc you have to sit when you pee. At the same token, she instill in us that feminism is also about CHOICES … the choice to work or be a sahm; the choice to get married, stay single or cohabitate forever; the choice to have kids or not have kids ….. and that is no way RIGHT way to do things.
Over the summer I was a part of a #RosieRally, to celebrate the 70th anniversary of VJ Day. The Rosie the Riveter Trust held a Rosie Rally in Richmond, CA (site of the one of the largest shipbuilding operations during WWII) to break the existing world record for most women dressed up as Rosie the Riveter in one place (we did it ! 1084 of us, breaking the existing 776 record). They had original Rosies there (pushing into their mid 90’s !!) and it got me thinking that this was the FIRST time that women were encouraged to work outside of the home to support the war effort in manufacturing bc the guys who typically held those jobs were fighting overseas. This was the first time these women were making their OWN money. There was a path that highlighted some interesting factoids (24 hr childcare was 70 cents a day BUT a woman only earned $31/month L yay for things NOT changing in 70 plus years grrrr) but also quotes like the woman who framed her first paycheck bc she was SO PROUD that it was HER MONEY, not her dad’s, husband’s or brother’s but HER’S !! On the way home it got me thinking, that was the first time women had any sort of autonomy, a sense of financial independence and when the war was over, they were told to basically hand their jobs back over the guys returning home and to get married and make babies. Buzzkill !
Well, kind of. I won't deny that was an important moment in our country. And looking at the post war economic "success" (yet the oppression of women and minorities at that time as well) is kind of fascinating.
But I think this is where intersectional feminism can come in and change the narrative. WOC have always had to work, usually cooking food for white people and raising white people's babies. To a lesser extent, working class women have also always had to work, and during the Great Depression, with a male unemployment rate of 25% overall, there were still jobs that would only be done by women, like housecleaning or laundering. And many of those women had to support their entire household because of the unemployment among working class men. Prior to that, during the gilded age, women and children worked in horrifying factory conditions. Prior to that, they worked in things like textile mills - again, in horrifying conditions. And at the same time mostly white, poor women were working in textile mills, black women were working as slaves.
That's not to say that Rosie the Riveter wasn't a wake up call to middle class women. Middle class and upper middle class women had their earning power and opportunities severely curtailed, as well. WWII paved the way for women to move into white collar jobs in the middle and later part of the 20th century. But I think it behooves us to remember the differences in economic gains and opportunities for various classes and races throughout time.
it does and for this Rosie Rally ... I was glad to see Black, Hispanic, Asian and Lesbian women play homage to the doors that 'Rosie' opened for ALL women.
... That is why I'm all up in my feelings about people just listening/processing/etc but not participating in any threads on here. You don't need to have some deeply meaningful thing to say. Shit, half the time all we're doing is talking about how something is bullshit or making a sarcastic remark because we are fed up with the nonsense. We want to see you're fed up with it too. We want you to come in and say "Wow, that's some bullshit. How terrible." Even if that's all you say. Ask questions. ...
Thank you (genuinely). Sometimes I worry that if I say something it's going to be the wrong thing, and I worry that I will be offensive. I promise to say more and I do hope that if I am unintentionally offensive that you ladies will let me know so I can correct myself.
Post by creamsiclechica on Oct 16, 2015 15:00:47 GMT -5
Hi, CEP, big fan here!
I haven't read the intersectional feminism thread, so I hope there isn't any overlap in my response. I consider myself a feminist overall, in the respect I absolutely want equality between the sexes across the board. But like a few other members here have mentioned, that all encompassing statement is ever only exclusive to white women the same way "all lives matter," is dismissive of the divide between black and white privilege. Given that, I'd also have to choose racial issues over feminism in my response because while equal pay and fair treatment is important, being dehumanized, targeted, and gunned down in streets by people in power and ignored is far more important to address. It's not to say we can't attack both, but we can't be naive and idealistic that the black experience in America should take precedence. African Americans do not receive equal pay or fair treatment in our system compared to either of their white counterparts, male or female. It's not just a system of inequity, it's one complete designed to hold them back, and safeguarded against ever being challenged. So feminism if created equal, and while "all women's rights matter," it's definitely selective in who it benefits when feminists gain ground in society.
As far as silence goes in race issues, I can understand being stunned. I can understand not wanting to offend or misstep. I can also understand wanting to learn and absorb. But approaching it the way you approach any tragedy goes a long way. Acknowledgment isn't trite, it's powerful in that it shows empathy and support, not tacit acceptance to this as a norm. In any other situation, a death, a catastrophe, "I'm so sorry," is a show of support when you don't know what to say. People don't expect you know the right things say, but it's the acknowledgment that counts to know you're not alone. In regards to learning, this isn't a classroom where you're being taught AT. A simple, "this is so eye opening," shows you're aligned with the posters showing you a new way, not silently nodding along with the opposition.
I think one of the biggest issues with the feminist movement is there is a lot of grey. I feel if we focused on the basics then that would bring us further but there is still grey on what is the basics. The feminist movement is not alone in the however.
Who are some of the black femanists you are referring to? I follow Roxanne Gay on Twitter and have seen her speak, is she a good example?
I also never get why more white women don't get some of their white privilege more. The parts I feel I understand better are where being a woman and being a man of color overlap (in my area riding public transport at certain times of night make you are target for either groups) and is also why I know that being a woman of colour adds another level of bullshit I don't have to deal with. Doesn't mean I get all of it nor does it mean I don't need to be made aware of my privilege at times.
Coming back in here to tell @koko and everyone else that saying "that's bullshit!" is pretty much the thing I do best. So yeah I can help you out there.
Also, how is it that I have hung out here this long and don't remember anything about Tina Fey coming up? My memory sucks more than I thought. I have some reading to do.
I do consider myself a feminist for many of the reasons that have been stated here. I was very thankful for the intersectional thread because it lead me to look into what feminism means for me as a Latina and how the movement has benefited but also left behind Latinas in this country. I'm still learning and trying to understand and find my place in such a multi-layered movement.
Coming back in here to tell @koko and everyone else that saying "that's bullshit!" is pretty much the thing I do best. So yeah I can help you out there.
Also, how is it that I have hung out here this long and don't remember anything about Tina Fey coming up? My memory sucks more than I thought. I have some reading to do.
Maybe it hasn't. I try to come with original content B).
I've read the intersectional feminist thread and skimmed this one (it was 6 pages by 9 am yesterday and honestly my focus has been debate aftermath and election)) but I haven't particpated. This doesn't mean I have not referenced it in my real life. I have. Or thought about it. I have. Or adjusted the way I respond to women's issues. I have. It's changed the way I have thought about feminism.
But I still identify as feminist.
And you may do all of those things, but unless you SAY SOMETHING about it on here, the black folks have no idea that it's happening.
That is why I'm all up in my feelings about people just listening/processing/etc but not participating in any threads on here. You don't need to have some deeply meaningful thing to say. Shit, half the time all we're doing is talking about how something is bullshit or making a sarcastic remark because we are fed up with the nonsense. We want to see you're fed up with it too. We want you to come in and say "Wow, that's some bullshit. How terrible." Even if that's all you say. Ask questions.
And when you are one of the most vocal feminists on the board, and intersectional feminism comes up and you got crickets, folks are going to notice. Like if a discussion on how environmental issues affect poorer communities and therefore more strongly affect POC happened and Pixy was suddenly silent.
Or in all the threads about how gerrymandering and voting laws restrict the power of the minority vote ESF was conspicuously absent.
Heard and understood.
I know I am not the one being called out here, but I am taking your words to heart. Know that even if you aren't seeing "bullshit!" from me...the things I am learning are making it's way to conversations with my DH, my friends, and into the lessons I am teaching my young kids.
it does and for this Rosie Rally ... I was glad to see Black, Hispanic, Asian and Lesbian women play homage to the doors that 'Rosie' opened for ALL women.
How did Rosie open doors for WOC?
there's a Ranger at the park (and a spry 94 yo) who worked a clerical position within one of the unions. Sadly even the unionized work force was segregated but this woman nonetheless secured a clerical position within the union and got a position that wasn't a domestic one but one on the way to white collar work. She doesn't identify as a 'Rosie' but she acknowledges that the war opened doors to employment that weren't previously open to white women much less WOC. Betty Reid Soskin
eta - all i know about WOC and the Rosie/WWII experience is what i picked up from talks given by Ms. Soskin, interviews with Ms. Soskin and the museum exhibits at the Rosie the Riveter WWII Homefront NP. she gets a TON of press bc she IS a WOC who's the oldest park ranger in the country and she has a wealth of knowledge about most of the major events of the 20th century through the lens of a WOC. she'll tell you what the history books skipped entirely.
Another great thread, and esp. @koko's point about when I say I want to be treated equally to men I mean white men. Because if I really think about it that is what I mean; I want to have equal power, equal right to define my own destiny, equal pay, etc. compared to the group in power. An it is insensitive at best for me to say that and dismiss a large population of men who don't have that power/standing. So even if I mean to include WOC in my equality drive, I can see how my very word choice can seem alienating.
Thanks again, CEP, for giving me something to reflect on.
The next wave of feminists should stop making it about being equal to (white) men and fucking make it about taking the power all together.
I am only half-joking.
ETA: I am not a man-hater. Just objectively think women do a better job.
This right here is an excellent example of why black women and other POC have a love/hate/indifferent relationship with feminism.
The work white people put into completely denying their role in the subjugation, oppression, and marginalization of people of color is astounding.
To hear women talk, you would think they had virtually no role in the slavery, in Jim Crow, in all of the things that have oppressed black folks since they were first dragged here either in chains or by deception.
But it's something of an ongoing narrative from white women, that because they had less power than men than of course racism isn't their fault, slavery not their responsibility. And that's a load of bullshit. Perhaps if more women would see their role in these injustices, POC wouldn't feel some alienated by feminism.
Maybe that would destroy the narrative, I don't know. But women are equally responsible for the ills of this world as men are. They may not have equal power to men, may have had less power compared to men in previous generations but they were willing and eager participants in those systems that shackle us even to this day.
I am … might not be militant about it, but absolutely, I’m a feminist.
My mom was a part of the first wave of feminists in the late 60’s/early 70’s and what she passed along to her 3 girls is that yes, feminism is about equality between the sexes. If you both do the same job and have the same credentials there is NO reason why you should be paid less bc you have to sit when you pee. At the same token, she instill in us that feminism is also about CHOICES … the choice to work or be a sahm; the choice to get married, stay single or cohabitate forever; the choice to have kids or not have kids ….. and that is no way RIGHT way to do things.
Over the summer I was a part of a #RosieRally, to celebrate the 70th anniversary of VJ Day. The Rosie the Riveter Trust held a Rosie Rally in Richmond, CA (site of the one of the largest shipbuilding operations during WWII) to break the existing world record for most women dressed up as Rosie the Riveter in one place (we did it ! 1084 of us, breaking the existing 776 record). They had original Rosies there (pushing into their mid 90’s !!) and it got me thinking that this was the FIRST time that women were encouraged to work outside of the home to support the war effort in manufacturing bc the guys who typically held those jobs were fighting overseas. This was the first time these women were making their OWN money. There was a path that highlighted some interesting factoids (24 hr childcare was 70 cents a day BUT a woman only earned $31/month L yay for things NOT changing in 70 plus years grrrr) but also quotes like the woman who framed her first paycheck bc she was SO PROUD that it was HER MONEY, not her dad’s, husband’s or brother’s but HER’S !! On the way home it got me thinking, that was the first time women had any sort of autonomy, a sense of financial independence and when the war was over, they were told to basically hand their jobs back over the guys returning home and to get married and make babies. Buzzkill !
It also got me thinking about Betty Friedan and her book the Feminine Mystique … that ‘lost’ feeling that some women experienced bc they weren’t fulfilled by taking care of their husband, kids and house. It made me wonder how many of those “Rosies” who had worked during the war, missed that time in their lives ?!? and made vows that THEIR daughters (my mom’s generation) wouldn’t feel the same sort of ‘trapped’ feeling their mothers did, sparking what eventually became the feminist movement. My mom was encouraged to blaze her own trail whatever that might be and she in turn encouraged her girls to do that same.
Not to leave out my brother, my mom taught him how to cook, clean and do laundry too. My sil thanks my mom whenever she sees her for teaching my brother these things lol.
I really don't want to piss on your wheaties but this story right here illustrates the overall point.
This is a white woman viewpoint. Most black women have always worked outside of the home. The WWII was not the first time they'd been told to work outside of the home, to have their own paycheck, make their own money. By the time middle class white women got restless enough to decide they needed jobs outside of the home, black women had been caring for these women's babies, households, gardens, elderly parents, etc and taking other sorts of jobs out of necessity.
So this is yet another reason why many black women and other WOC tune out from what feels like feminist rhetoric.
The next wave of feminists should stop making it about being equal to (white) men and fucking make it about taking the power all together.
I am only half-joking.
ETA: I am not a man-hater. Just objectively think women do a better job.
This right here is an excellent example of why black women and other POC have a love/hate/indifferent relationship with feminism.
The work white people put into completely denying their role in the subjugation, oppression, and marginalization of people of color is astounding.
To hear women talk, you would think they had virtually no role in the slavery, in Jim Crow, in all of the things that have oppressed black folks since they were first dragged here either in chains or by deception.
But it's something of an ongoing narrative from white women, that because they had less power than men than of course racism isn't their fault, slavery not their responsibility. And that's a load of bullshit. Perhaps if more women would see their role in these injustices, POC wouldn't feel some alienated by feminism.
Maybe that would destroy the narrative, I don't know. But women are equally responsible for the ills of this world as men are. They may not have equal power to men, may have had less power compared to men in previous generations but they were willing and eager participants in those systems that shackle us even to this day.
I don't think it's fair to say all white women were willing and eager participants. It certainly was never slavery, but their power was limited to change it and so they started where they could.
Looking back, however, and owning the missed opportunities in our history is valuable and necessary in moving forward. We have to embrace our flaws to learn and grow.
I feel like this is a fight between siblings...racial vs womens equality. We all want the same thing...equality.
This right here is an excellent example of why black women and other POC have a love/hate/indifferent relationship with feminism.
The work white people put into completely denying their role in the subjugation, oppression, and marginalization of people of color is astounding.
To hear women talk, you would think they had virtually no role in the slavery, in Jim Crow, in all of the things that have oppressed black folks since they were first dragged here either in chains or by deception.
But it's something of an ongoing narrative from white women, that because they had less power than men than of course racism isn't their fault, slavery not their responsibility. And that's a load of bullshit. Perhaps if more women would see their role in these injustices, POC wouldn't feel some alienated by feminism.
Maybe that would destroy the narrative, I don't know. But women are equally responsible for the ills of this world as men are. They may not have equal power to men, may have had less power compared to men in previous generations but they were willing and eager participants in those systems that shackle us even to this day.
I don't think it's fair to say all white women were willing and eager participants. It certainly was never slavery, but their power was limited to change it and so they started where they could.
I don't think it's fair to say all white women were willing and eager participants. It certainly was never slavery, but their power was limited to change it and so they started where they could.
Looking back, however, and owning the missed opportunities in our history is valuable and necessary in moving forward. We have to embrace our flaws to learn and grow.
I feel like this is a fight between siblings...racial vs womens equality. We all want the same thing...equality.
If by siblings, you mean the one favored sibling and the one horribly abused sibling.
Let's not #notallwhitewomen this one.
Point taken.
ETA: Point well taken that the sibling analogy is inaccurate. However, the end goal is the same isn't it? What is the path forward?
I've read the intersectional feminist thread and skimmed this one (it was 6 pages by 9 am yesterday and honestly my focus has been debate aftermath and election)) but I haven't particpated. This doesn't mean I have not referenced it in my real life. I have. Or thought about it. I have. Or adjusted the way I respond to women's issues. I have. It's changed the way I have thought about feminism.
But I still identify as feminist.
And you may do all of those things, but unless you SAY SOMETHING about it on here, the black folks have no idea that it's happening.
That is why I'm all up in my feelings about people just listening/processing/etc but not participating in any threads on here. You don't need to have some deeply meaningful thing to say. Shit, half the time all we're doing is talking about how something is bullshit or making a sarcastic remark because we are fed up with the nonsense. We want to see you're fed up with it too. We want you to come in and say "Wow, that's some bullshit. How terrible." Even if that's all you say. Ask questions.
And when you are one of the most vocal feminists on the board, and intersectional feminism comes up and you got crickets, folks are going to notice. Like if a discussion on how environmental issues affect poorer communities and therefore more strongly affect POC happened and Pixy was suddenly silent.
Or in all the threads about how gerrymandering and voting laws restrict the power of the minority vote ESF was conspicuously absent.
I admit I dropped out of this thread yesterday. Not because I wasn't interested in what was going on, but because I knew it was going to be filled with super interesting, insightful things, and I didn't want to be reading it half-assed when I was jumping between work and this. Jokes about Republicans I can handle when I'm half-listening to a conference call, this I saved for when I was not distracted.
So now that it's Saturday afternoon, I'm reading and catching up. I haven't finished reading the thread, but saw my name and wanted to respond.
I read a lot of the posts about racial issues on this board, and definitely the vote suppression ones because that issue makes me wild. But I'll own that I don't often respond. Really, I it's because I don't have anything to add other than, "fucking bullshit." Other times, I feel like everyone has heard my opinion on an issue, so I back off to give others space and read what they have to say.
It had not occurred to me that there's value in showing my support though. I will make more of an effort.
As for the intersectional feminist thread, I am pretty sure I didn't participate, or maybe only had one post. For that one, I was traveling for work and in a deposition when it started. I did read it though. lyssbobiss, Command, B613 can verify that we discussed the thread that night.