FFFC

[GilliC]

I have something maybe slightly flameful this week. A bunch of people have shared the "Famous quotes, the way a woman would have to say them during a meeting" link on Facebook. I thought it sounded really interesting, so I clicked.

My flameful: Woman or man, if anyone talked that way in a meeting I was in, I would be so annoyed. Just make your point and move on.

“Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”

Woman in a Meeting: “I’m sorry, Mikhail, if I could? Didn’t mean to cut you off there. Can we agree that this wall maybe isn’t quite doing what it should be doing? Just looking at everything everyone’s been saying, it seems like we could consider removing it. Possibly. I don’t know, what does the room feel?”

My response to that would either be, "So you're saying we should take down the wall?" or quite possibly "What are you saying?"

I really love the concept, but these examples are so over the top that I think it just makes it sound like women have zero communication skills whatsoever. Wouldn't the article be just as effective with real-world examples?

“Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”

Actual Woman in a Meeting: “I'm sorry, Mikhail, but I really think we should tear down the wall."

EDIT: This sounds realistic and communicative while still being unnecessarily apologetic. I feel that the over-the-top examples distract from what is a very real problem in very real examples.

ORIGINAL: I kind of feel like the article is actually encouraging the apologetic woman-speak, because this ends up sounding downright forceful after the simpering confused word vomit in the original.

[GilliC]

Oct 16, 2015 9:58:39 GMT -5 TR said:

The article isn't encouraging the apologetic woman-speak, they're pointing out how ridiculous it sounds, but that's how women have to approach things to avoid being called a bitch. And it's not saying women have zero communication skills, it's saying they're being forced to speak that way to be considered. It's slightly exaggerated for effect, but it's true.

I know it's not meant to encourage. Maybe "encourage" is the wrong word. I will edit.

But "I'm sorry Mikhail, but I think the wall should come down" is just as much an example without distracting from the point. No apology necessary. That's how many of us really speak, and it's still wrong.

[jojoandleo]

I JUST had a convo with my BFF. She was a manager in a warehouse and all her employees were male. Her male higher-ups would talk to these guys like, "What the fuck are you doing? Jesus, fix it, dipshit!"

She said, "Hey guys, we need to work on XYZ" and had an employee be all "Fuck this I am DONE!" and tell higher-ups she was condescending and degrading to him.  ^o)

She was nicer than the men and was told she was condescending because, why?  It DID need to be worked on.  She is the boss.  it is her JOB to tell him what needs work.  But, the fact that she has a vagina and he has a penis, her merely telling him what to do in a straight forward manner was condescending.

THAT was the point of this article.  Male bosses can treat employees like SHIT and get away with it.  If a woman does the same thing?  She's a bitch/condescending/etc.

[jojoandleo]

Oct 16, 2015 10:04:21 GMT -5 GilliC said:

Oct 16, 2015 9:58:39 GMT -5 TR said:

The article isn't encouraging the apologetic woman-speak, they're pointing out how ridiculous it sounds, but that's how women have to approach things to avoid being called a bitch. And it's not saying women have zero communication skills, it's saying they're being forced to speak that way to be considered. It's slightly exaggerated for effect, but it's true.

I know it's not meant to encourage. Maybe "encourage" is the wrong word. I will edit.

But "I'm sorry Mikhail, but I think the wall should come down" is just as much an example without distracting from the point. No apology necessary. That's how many of us really speak, and it's still wrong.

The POINT was to be over the top.  The POINT was to show how ridiculous it is.  Your example-some people would be all, "What's wrong with that?"  because it is SO ingrained.  Some times you need hyperbole to make a point.

[GilliC]

Oct 16, 2015 10:06:14 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:04:21 GMT -5 GilliC said:

I know it's not meant to encourage. Maybe "encourage" is the wrong word. I will edit.

But "I'm sorry Mikhail, but I think the wall should come down" is just as much an example without distracting from the point. No apology necessary. That's how many of us really speak, and it's still wrong.

The POINT was to be over the top.  The POINT was to show how ridiculous it is.  Your example-some people would be all, "What's wrong with that?"  because it is SO ingrained.  Some times you need hyperbole to make a point.

I disagree. I think some women will read this and think, "I don't sound like that, thank God. Good for me!" when What they'd actually say is very close to the revised version. I don't think exaggeration is a great way to make a point about something subtle.

[GilliC]

But at least my opinion is flameful!

[bg]

Oct 16, 2015 10:06:14 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:04:21 GMT -5 GilliC said:

I know it's not meant to encourage. Maybe "encourage" is the wrong word. I will edit.

But "I'm sorry Mikhail, but I think the wall should come down" is just as much an example without distracting from the point. No apology necessary. That's how many of us really speak, and it's still wrong.

The POINT was to be over the top.  The POINT was to show how ridiculous it is.  Your example-some people would be all, "What's wrong with that?"  because it is SO ingrained.  Some times you need hyperbole to make a point.

Yep, I'm here too. Over the top is what made the point.

[1confused1]

I'm jealous of all the attention my sister is getting from my parents (specifically my mom) because she is pregnant (and I am sure it will continue when the babies are here). They are literally tripping over themselves to help her.

She has a very involved, helpful husband. I am a single mom with no help. I have stopped asking for help because there is always a reason they can't.

I need to figure out a way to deal with my feelings.

[glynn]

Oct 16, 2015 13:03:14 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

I'm jealous of all the attention my sister is getting from my parents (specifically my mom) because she is pregnant (and I am sure it will continue when the babies are here). They are literally tripping over themselves to help her.

She has a very involved, helpful husband. I am a single mom with no help. I have stopped asking for help because there is always a reason they can't.

I need to figure out a way to deal with my feelings.

Hugs.. Sorry. I kinda know how your feeling. My DD2 is adopted and since H's nephew has had kids DD2 seems to not mater in H's family. They are not mean to her but the ignore her. Since they all know about the pending divorce his mother only has reached out to DD2 once in July.

[1confused1]

Oct 16, 2015 13:34:04 GMT -5 glynn said:

Oct 16, 2015 13:03:14 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

I'm jealous of all the attention my sister is getting from my parents (specifically my mom) because she is pregnant (and I am sure it will continue when the babies are here). They are literally tripping over themselves to help her.

She has a very involved, helpful husband. I am a single mom with no help. I have stopped asking for help because there is always a reason they can't.

I need to figure out a way to deal with my feelings.

Hugs.. Sorry. I kinda know how your feeling. My DD2 is adopted and since H's nephew has had kids DD2 seems to not mater in H's family. They are not mean to her but the ignore her. Since they all know about the pending divorce his mother only has reached out to DD2 once in July.

Thanks.  I'm also worried that my kids are going to be ignored after the new babies are here.

[achase123]

I'm feeling 1000% better about the situation with J. My mom is soooooo angry at him for breaking up with me via text message that she wanted to call him or text him. For a second that sounded great and then I made her promise not to. I really feel like our sits situation Wasn't 100% right. I think that I struggled at times with whether or not I was wildly attracted to him and I don't want to settle. So I met with my counselor one last time and she said she's proud of how I'm handling it.

Flameful? I'm meeting a guy friend who I think is really cute for drinks and apps this evening. It'll be nice to relax and have a kiddo free night and P loves the sitter who's coming! I'm looking forward to it.