Reality chek on if I'm a crazy HRC fan...

[downtoearth]

So I posted on another blog about politics and wondered if these are insensitive comments from Bernie supporters or if I'm just being sensitive.  I noted this in an article about how Bernie's record is not sexist...

"Bernie’s record is not outwardly sexist, but I think the concern is that his campaign staff is not as well versed and tone deaf. For example Jeff Weaver, Bernie’s campaign manager, joked about Hillary supporters having concerns that Sanders used a typical sexist stereotype by saying “shouting” when a woman is fired up. Weaver’s tone deaf response was that “we’re willing to consider her for vice president … we’ll even interview her.” Bernie might not be served as well by his manager dismissing sexist concerns in a joke when 61% of Democrats in the country are women."

Responses

GUY1 | November 2, 2015 3:08 PM at 3:08 PM | Reply


On what planet is “shouting” a “typical sexist stereotype”? You’re really reaching to help Hillary’s outragists make their feeble point.

GUY2 | November 2, 2015 4:10 PM at 4:10 PM | Reply


The same planet where “golf” and “Chicago” are considered racist.

[heyjude]

This is nothing. Have you spent any time on the Bernie Reddit page?

Watching from the background what has happened in the Bernie community over both BLM and women has been an utterly depressing and eye opening experience.

[aurora]

Nov 5, 2015 11:14:58 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

So I posted on another blog about politics and wondered if these are insensitive comments from Bernie supporters or if I'm just being sensitive.  I noted this in an article about how Bernie's record is not sexist...

"Bernie’s record is not outwardly sexist, but I think the concern is that his campaign staff is not as well versed and tone deaf. For example Jeff Weaver, Bernie’s campaign manager, joked about Hillary supporters having concerns that Sanders used a typical sexist stereotype by saying “shouting” when a woman is fired up. Weaver’s tone deaf response was that “we’re willing to consider her for vice president … we’ll even interview her.” Bernie might not be served as well by his manager dismissing sexist concerns in a joke when 61% of Democrats in the country are women."

Responses

GUY1 | November 2, 2015 3:08 PM at 3:08 PM | Reply


On what planet is “shouting” a “typical sexist stereotype”? You’re really reaching to help Hillary’s outragists make their feeble point.

On this planet:

[heyjude]

Excellant article on Vox today:


www.vox.com/identities/2015/11/5/9671830/bernie-sanders-sexism

[smock]

On what planet is “shouting” a “typical sexist stereotype”? You’re really reaching to help Hillary’s outragists make their feeble point.

Yeah, what are you, one of those shrill, loud feminazis who supports Hillary?

Oh, wait.

[downtoearth]

Nov 5, 2015 12:29:13 GMT -5 smock said:

On what planet is “shouting” a “typical sexist stereotype”? You’re really reaching to help Hillary’s outragists make their feeble point.

Yeah, what are you, one of those shrill, loud feminazis who supports Hillary?

Oh, wait.

I think my concern is that a lot of white males who are liberal are leaning toward Bernie because of the wall-street and financial reform issue, which seems reasonable and I understand.  But then they dismiss women who support HRC as just wanting another women and continue with the stereotypical gender bias that women don't evaluate issues and will just vote for another women b/c they are alike.  I shouldn't be surprised b/c both parties have been using this tactic for years - voting for someone different means that you are uninformed.  It's a similar issue that was thrown at black voters in 2004 and 2008 from the GOP - they just wanted something "like" them and that they couldn't think for themselves. 

It's disheartening that the "calls are coming from within" the Democratic party already and that many die-hard Bernie supporters, who are men, think women can't think for themselves and would rather see a "moderate Republican" over HRC even though HRC is more middle than Bernie... so they will go from socialist democrat to moderate Republican since they don't consider HRC at all.  Even my own DH was saying these things before the first Dem debate.  The die-hard women Bernie fans I know have said they would be happy to vote for HRC if Bernie didn't win, but that they REALLY want Bernie to win the nomination.  That is the part I want to understand when I'm reading blog responses. 

[aurora]

Nov 5, 2015 12:24:50 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Excellant article on Vox today:


www.vox.com/identities/2015/11/5/9671830/bernie-sanders-sexism

I recently heard the term "micromessages," which may be a less off-putting way to point out microaggressions to people.

"Did you consider the micromessage your body language conveyed?"
"Did you consider the microaggression your body language conveyed?" (sounds judgmental)

[smock]

Nov 5, 2015 12:24:50 GMT -5 heyjude said:

Excellant article on Vox today:


www.vox.com/identities/2015/11/5/9671830/bernie-sanders-sexism

Thanks for sharing; that was a great read.

[jeaniebueller]

OMG, I just peeked at the Bernie reddit. "Focus on the Bern!!" LOL

[jeaniebueller]

think the biggest takeaway from this is not to underestimate the intelligence of the people behind Clinton's campaign. I think they are despicable, but this is close to perfect execution.

Step one: Identify the areas in which you appeal to Democrats more than the most progressive candidate in recent history.

•Guns


•Being a woman


•Popular with Blacks/Hispanics


Step Two: Drive the wedge like crazy which means...

•Making a huge deal out of Bernie Sanders' two vaguely pro-gun votes
•Finding every opportunity you can to remind voters that Bernie Sanders is not a woman and turning it into an 'us against them' thing by playing on feminist buzzwords - which I'm now going to call fem-baiting, if race-baiting is a thing. So - 'Women aren't shrill. Women's voices are 'tone-policed'... Next we will hear that Bernie's record on Women's issues is just an example of him 'mansplaining'. Trust me.
•Finding every opportunity you can to remind Black voters that Bernie is White. Remind them that he is from Vermont, that he doesn't 'know their struggle', that he is patronizing, that he is blaming 'urban' people for Gun issues and ignoring the real, white mass murderers.

So predictable, but so well done.

[heyjude]

Typical over there. It's very depressing. Honestly.

[FloFTW]

Nov 5, 2015 12:43:34 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Nov 5, 2015 12:29:13 GMT -5 smock said:

Yeah, what are you, one of those shrill, loud feminazis who supports Hillary?

Oh, wait.

I think my concern is that a lot of white males who are liberal are leaning toward Bernie because of the wall-street and financial reform issue, which seems reasonable and I understand.  But then they dismiss women who support HRC as just wanting another women and continue with the stereotypical gender bias that women don't evaluate issues and will just vote for another women b/c they are alike.  I shouldn't be surprised b/c both parties have been using this tactic for years - voting for someone different means that you are uninformed.  It's a similar issue that was thrown at black voters in 2004 and 2008 from the GOP - they just wanted something "like" them and that they couldn't think for themselves. 

It's disheartening that the "calls are coming from within" the Democratic party already and that many die-hard Bernie supporters, who are men, think women can't think for themselves and would rather see a "moderate Republican" over HRC even though HRC is more middle than Bernie... so they will go from socialist democrat to moderate Republican since they don't consider HRC at all.  Even my own DH was saying these things before the first Dem debate.  The die-hard women Bernie fans I know have said they would be happy to vote for HRC if Bernie didn't win, but that they REALLY want Bernie to win the nomination.  That is the part I want to understand when I'm reading blog responses. 

I got into it with one of my friends about this on facebook and one of the things that really bothers me about the bolded is that really, even if that WAS the only reason that I was voting for her, it's still a really fucking good reasons. So yeah, even if all things Bernie v. Hillary being equal, I'd still probably vote for her because she's a woman because it's about fucking time. But also...all things are not equal. I think Hillary is the better candidate by a mile. But then I get angry that they are dismissing that point ("you just like her because she's a woman"), because...it's actually kind of a big deal to me, yeah.

[heyjude]

#vaginapoints

[heyjude]

The other thing Berners are really upset about this is this recent quote by HRC at a NAACP meeting:

"“There are some who say that this [gun violence] is an urban problem. Sometimes what they mean by that is: It’s a black problem. But it’s not. It’s not black, it’s not urban. It’s a deep, profound challenge to who we are.”"

Now not only is she defaming St. Bernie with the stain of sexism, she's calling him a racist too. Or that's how they are interpreting it. And pitchforks are out.

[jeaniebueller]

Guys, Bernie is not another politician. Yeah, right.    www.msnbc.com/msnbc/sanders-trying-reopen-the-clinton-email-issue

[tacosforlife]

Nov 5, 2015 13:38:50 GMT -5 heyjude said:

The other thing Berners are really upset about this is this recent quote by HRC at a NAACP meeting:

"“There are some who say that this [gun violence] is an urban problem. Sometimes what they mean by that is: It’s a black problem. But it’s not. It’s not black, it’s not urban. It’s a deep, profound challenge to who we are.”"

Now not only is she defaming St. Bernie with the stain of sexism, she's calling him a racist too. Or that's how they are interpreting it. And pitchforks are out.

Every time someone says that guns are different in rural areas, I always want to ask if they watched the episode of Law & Order where the kid from New York was in college in Georgia and would bring guns back up on his breaks to sell. Even if guns were exclusively an urban problem (which they're not), how do people think guns wind up in urban areas? PEOPLE BUY THEM IN RURAL AREAS WITH LAX GUN LAWS AND BRING THEM BACK TO CITIES!!!

[heyjude]

I hate hate hate that we are supposed to ignore coded language because it is said by a "good democrat."

[downtoearth]

I do think they are both trying to win the most that their target demographics in the Dem party. But in having such a long, indirect primary, it doesn't serve supporters well to be so entrenched in the villain/savior mindset so early. They are BOTH career politicians, they both have very similar views on the spectrum, they both have strengths that the other doesn't in those views, and they both want a democrat in the white house.

Can you imagine if Bernie said, "Vote for me or vote for Rubio... never vote for Hillary!" Or if Hillary said, "Vote for me or Jeb - never vote for Bernie!" That is completely crazy if you are voting on the issues and not for the person. Neither wants that! They are career democrats (or in Bernie's case democratic socialists) and want to see an expansion of safety nets and a more toward more equality (financial and social) in the nation.

[WOT?*]

I thought it went without saying that you're a crazy HRC fan.