getting through the holidays

[lostintranslation]

I don't really have much of an update on us, still the same really (not stagnant, just no major 'ah ha' moments or solutions) and it sucks. I (naively) thought several months ago that it would *have* to at least be a little better by the holidays... Welp, that's a big fat no, lol. When your relationships weren't in a good place, how did you get through this time of year? H doesn't even want to go to the parties his friends are throwing because he says it just makes him feel worse (not about anything in particular, I think because he 'should' be happy, but isn't and leads to having to fake being happy etc).

We both love decorating for Christmas, especially him, and I don't even know how to approach that this year. I would bet we both don't feel happy and in the mood to decorate, but it would be SO weird not to and probably more depressing. I've also thought a lot about telling him not to buy me anything this year (we both love surprises and are pretty good gift givers normally) because a) I don't know how or what mindset he'd have to get himself into to put any thought into it and b) I'm mad at him, I'm so disappointed and sad and I can't imagine anything he could give me (except the ONE thing I really want, to be on the road to recovery...) would even remotely make me happy. Selfishly I still want to give him presents because I already bought some this summer (I buy things if I come across something to add to a collection of his) and had already planned out his gifts, darn it! He won't love it if I give him something and he doesn't give me anything though... wwyd? Our counselor 'warned' us that the holidays will be difficult and we just need to start preparing ourselves to get through it.

Any advice?

[glynn]

I am in the same boat. No advice just hugs.

[formerlyak]

Honestly, your H had an emotional affair and if he's not willing to say he's "all in" and make it work with you, you need to make your own holiday plans without him. I say this not to be a bitch, but because I have been there. My ex had an emotional affair. He pretended to work on us but was never really in it 100%. Then the week before Halloween, he wanted a divorce. The week before Christmas he moved out. I tried to plan holiday things together because we have a son, but I was always let down. Finally I decided "screw him" and started doing what I wanted to do for the holidays. I invited him because of our son, but he never showed up (and this was when he was still living with us between Halloween and when he moved out). Not even to decorate the damn tree with our kid. Once I realized my happiness was in my own hands, I was a lot better off.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Ditto ^^ make your own plans and be done with it.

[lostintranslation]

I guess I'm not sure what that means... I mean, he has no family here, we always spend it with mine and I absolutely know he'll spend it with us. It's not like he doesn't want to do anything (just not those parties with his friends, he'll go to the one with mine), we haven't actually talked about it yet, it's more that we'll have to do everything pretending we're happy. I actually don't know what *I* even want to do, I'm not necessarily worried about what he will/won't do. I usually love getting out all the Christmas stuff... if I don't I will hate not having it and if I do I'll be sad going through the motions knowing things are a mess. I can't decide whether to tell him to not get me a present (which I'm sure he will otherwise).

His actions are telling me he's all in, but he's also being honest (which hurts) that his feelings haven't changed, so I know that in his heart he isn't 'all in' (yet??). I try to imagine giving an ultimatum, but I'm just not there (yet?). Every day I get a little closer though and I know there will be a point that things either will have changed between us or I'll be ready to say it's over. Based on our conversations I think we are still both doing our best to figure this out and counseling has been good, whether we ultimately stay together.

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2015 16:01:56 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

I guess I'm not sure what that means... I mean, he has no family here, we always spend it with mine and I absolutely know he'll spend it with us. It's not like he doesn't want to do anything (just not those parties with his friends, he'll go to the one with mine), we haven't actually talked about it yet, it's more that we'll have to do everything pretending we're happy. I actually don't know what *I* even want to do, I'm not necessarily worried about what he will/won't do. I usually love getting out all the Christmas stuff... if I don't I will hate not having it and if I do I'll be sad going through the motions knowing things are a mess. I can't decide whether to tell him to not get me a present (which I'm sure he will otherwise).

His actions are telling me he's all in, but he's also being honest (which hurts) that his feelings haven't changed, so I know that in his heart he isn't 'all in' (yet??). I try to imagine giving an ultimatum, but I'm just not there (yet?). Every day I get a little closer though and I know there will be a point that things either will have changed between us or I'll be ready to say it's over. Based on our conversations I think we are still both doing our best to figure this out and counseling has been good, whether we ultimately stay together.

Wait, so he still has feelings for the woman he had an emotional affair with? I'm not sure how you get past that. I've seen emotional affairs happen that aren't really about the person so much as filling a void they have in their relationship, but if it's really about the person, I'm not sure what can be done. I'm sure your counselor is working on it, but it sounds like some space for both of you to think about your marriage would be good and maybe doing holidays separately wouldn't be such a horrible thing. 

[formerlyak]

If his feelings haven't changed, he isn't all in. Honestly it sounds like you maybe aren't ready to call it a day yet, and that's fine. You have to do what you feel is best for you. But your question was how do you get through the holidays. The fact that he has no family there is irrelevant. My ex had no family in our city. I invited him to my plans. He came to part of the day, but not the rest. But I certainly wasn't going to not do Christmas the way I wanted to because of him. Make plans with your family - if he's there, fine. If he isn't, you have to find a way to be ok with that (or find a way to get through it; my first Thanksgiving alone when ds was with my ex I drank a bottle of wine with my bff and we watched Clueless). If you are invited to a party that you want to go to, go. Tell him you are going. If you feel like it, invite him along. But don't not go if you want to go. You have to get to a place where you are making your own plans independent of him just in case he comes back in a month and says, "Sorry I can't get over the other woman." Which is what happened in my case - he didn't say it, but he is now engaged to her, so ...

[lostintranslation]

Nov 12, 2015 16:34:25 GMT -5 @pdx18 said:

Nov 12, 2015 16:01:56 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

I guess I'm not sure what that means... I mean, he has no family here, we always spend it with mine and I absolutely know he'll spend it with us. It's not like he doesn't want to do anything (just not those parties with his friends, he'll go to the one with mine), we haven't actually talked about it yet, it's more that we'll have to do everything pretending we're happy. I actually don't know what *I* even want to do, I'm not necessarily worried about what he will/won't do. I usually love getting out all the Christmas stuff... if I don't I will hate not having it and if I do I'll be sad going through the motions knowing things are a mess. I can't decide whether to tell him to not get me a present (which I'm sure he will otherwise).

His actions are telling me he's all in, but he's also being honest (which hurts) that his feelings haven't changed, so I know that in his heart he isn't 'all in' (yet??). I try to imagine giving an ultimatum, but I'm just not there (yet?). Every day I get a little closer though and I know there will be a point that things either will have changed between us or I'll be ready to say it's over. Based on our conversations I think we are still both doing our best to figure this out and counseling has been good, whether we ultimately stay together.

Wait, so he still has feelings for the woman he had an emotional affair with? I'm not sure how you get past that. I've seen emotional affairs happen that aren't really about the person so much as filling a void they have in their relationship, but if it's really about the person, I'm not sure what can be done. I'm sure your counselor is working on it, but it sounds like some space for both of you to think about your marriage would be good and maybe doing holidays separately wouldn't be such a horrible thing. 

Yes, I totally agree with you. I can't even explain how upset it makes me that he's still so unsure what he wants, there are no words and I've expressed everyone of them I can think of to him. I know everyone here has said to focus on what I want and not him and I've really tried to think about that. I think right now I'm ok with the fact that I might be wasting my time and if/when I get to the point where I can leave, I'll get there when I get there. I'm just not ready yet and he isn't currently *acting* on his other feelings for her. I do think he's doing everything he can to work on our relationship (counseling, he bought a game for us to play together, inviting me to do things with him, having painful discussions whenever I need without getting upset) so in some ways I can't not give it a chance. Obviously his feelings have to change for it to get any further and like I said, I feel myself getting better every day at my happiness not being as connected to his.

I absolutely hate how slowly this is going, but I'm trusting (hopefully rightfully so) that the counselors know what they are doing and both of them have said to be patient. I guess in some ways they are right because either he'll change or I'll get to that breaking point.

[Deleted]

Well, if you guys are working on your marriage - I'd say fake it until you make it. If you're looking to find ways to repair things, I can't think of much that would be more fun/bonding than doing your normal holiday traditions, getting excited about the holiday together, picking out a sweet gift that shows how much you care about each other, etc. It's a fun, magical time of year and if you're looking to put the magic back into your relationship, I feel like it could actually help (I also recognize how ridiculous and cheesy everything I just wrote sounds).

IMO you can't repair a marriage by spending all your time dwelling on what is wrong. You need to do that in counseling, and when appropriate outside of counseling, but you're not going to get happy together again if you're both just focusing on how UNhappy and miserable things are and how much life sucks. You also need to have fun together. Reconnect.

I have concerns about the fact that he still has feelings for this person, but that's largely because I'm not a "big love" type of person and can't fathom the idea that one could be so in love with someone they haven't dated or talked to in months that it should be affecting their daily life. That's just silly. If he's so stuck on this I wonder if he really IS being honest or if he's got bigger problems and this just seems like a convenient excuse.

So how's that for conflicting advice. Lol. Bottom line - if you are determined to work on your marriage, I think having fun together for the holidays is a great shot at that.

[lostintranslation]

@buckybells lol I appreciate it, however conflicting it is I should clarify that he doesn't go around saying how in love he is with her, what he says (in counseling or otherwise) is that no matter what future scenario he imagines, he has to let go of something and it's too painful for him to know what to do. I hate it, I abso-fucking-lutely hate when he says that and have told him how incredibly hurtful it is to hear that someone else could even be nearly as important to him as me. It makes me so angry he won't/can't (?) just make up his mind, but then again, I don't know what else he could do besides what he's doing now (which is working on our relationship).

And as mad as I am at him (and have told him as much) he's genuinely distraught at how he's ruined everything for us, destroyed whatever friendship they could have had and completely turned into someone he doesn't recognize. So there's that. I almost *wish* he was some lying, manipulative jerk that I could write off, I think it would be easier. He's been totally honest that his biggest fear is that his feelings won't change, so it's not like I'm the only one worried about that. He's always known what to do for everything in his life and not knowing how to fix something is completely new territory for him.

Anyway, I think we should just sit down now and talk about it. Figure out what we can genuinely enjoy and actually focus on the good things - I think you're right, right now all we focus on is the bad stuff (even though we have plenty of semi-happy or at least normal times) and I'm actually probably perpetuating that more than he is. There should at least be some kind of balance.

[lostintranslation]

Nov 12, 2015 18:17:08 GMT -5 mp said:

Nov 12, 2015 17:37:21 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

Yes, I totally agree with you. I can't even explain how upset it makes me that he's still so unsure what he wants, there are no words and I've expressed everyone of them I can think of to him. I know everyone here has said to focus on what I want and not him and I've really tried to think about that. I think right now I'm ok with the fact that I might be wasting my time and if/when I get to the point where I can leave, I'll get there when I get there. I'm just not ready yet and he isn't currently *acting* on his other feelings for her. I do think he's doing everything he can to work on our relationship (counseling, he bought a game for us to play together, inviting me to do things with him, having painful discussions whenever I need without getting upset) so in some ways I can't not give it a chance. Obviously his feelings have to change for it to get any further and like I said, I feel myself getting better every day at my happiness not being as connected to his.

I absolutely hate how slowly this is going, but I'm trusting (hopefully rightfully so) that the counselors know what they are doing and both of them have said to be patient. I guess in some ways they are right because either he'll change or I'll get to that breaking point.

Not to counteract anything you're working on - but in NO WAY do you not have an option. You absolutely can refuse to go further and refuse to give it a chance. This isn't all about him and what he wants - if you're miserable, it's ok to call it and be done.

I don't fault you for trying, but don't do it because you feel you have to.

I guess I don't know if I think I have to, exactly, but just being completely honest, I just can't let go right now. I'm just not ready, right or wrong. I believe he is trying and I want to be able to say that I tried my best too.

[calle28]

Sorry if you've answered this before, but what is the other women's status? Is she married?

I just find it so hard to believe that he still has these strong feelings for someone he hasn't spoken to in months and wasn't physical with.

I agree with @buckeybells advice. IF you two are truly working on your marriage, why not try to have fun together.

[lostintranslation]

calle28 yes, she's married (this year!) so I assume they are going through something similar, who knows (their brief conversation to end communication, soon after he told me he couldn't fix it on his own, made it sound like they did both want to work on their marriages - they had both hoped their feelings would just go away when she left the company). The thing is, I'm totally not surprised he's so connected - he's a very passionate person (not just romantically, but with everything he does) and is very much a heart before head kind of person. I also talked about in my first post how they have known each other for a few years and then for a year and a half had a very intense, 24/7 job that required a lot of communication and dependence on each other. It only makes it more significant that he's always been a very independent person, but had to really work as a team with her, which was something he never experienced to that extent and is surprised him how much that impacted him. He says it's not even a physical thing for him, it has nothing to do with finding her attractive (although I've pointed out he likely wouldn't be in this situation if she was a guy...), but having a strong bond.

And what's worse that he's said is so unfair to me, is that he's down here in the trenches with me while being separated from her, which makes him only miss talking to her. He has talked in individual counseling about not comparing us etc and he definitely says he's trying very hard not to do that in his mind and he hasn't said that at all to me (he's not getting mad and saying how she does x, y and z better or something).

Anyway, yesterday I went home and felt weirdly happy and in part because of what you guys said. Like, I want to choose to be happy this time of year and I know I'll have bad days (most likely the day of counseling, lol), but I want to choose to enjoy life regardless of what's going on. I hope that maybe we can get in a cycle of perpetuating some of that good mood and do our best to create positive memories since the last few months has mostly been full of bad ones. I think he'll like that idea (we have a date tonight), although I'm sure he'll be wary about it getting my hopes up, but he's been willing to try anything. I know he's in a very dark place (tons of guilt and self-loathing, feeling helpless and weak - probably contributing to his inability to move forward) and maybe it won't be possible, but I'm not going to let dominate my life.

[formerlyak]

Nov 13, 2015 14:26:27 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

And what's worse that he's said is so unfair to me, is that he's down here in the trenches with me while being separated from her, which makes him only miss talking to her. He has talked in individual counseling about not comparing us etc and he definitely says he's trying very hard not to do that in his mind and he hasn't said that at all to me (he's not getting mad and saying how she does x, y and z better or something).

Did he actually say this? If so, I am sorry, but he is an ass. While he may think he is just being honest, it is so not cool to tell your wife, who you claim to be trying to make a marriage work with because you fucked it up by having an emotional affair, that you are having a tough time because you are separated from the mistress. Really? He needs to completely remove her from the equation or you two don't have a fighting chance.

[lostintranslation]

Nov 13, 2015 15:08:21 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Nov 13, 2015 14:26:27 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

And what's worse that he's said is so unfair to me, is that he's down here in the trenches with me while being separated from her, which makes him only miss talking to her. He has talked in individual counseling about not comparing us etc and he definitely says he's trying very hard not to do that in his mind and he hasn't said that at all to me (he's not getting mad and saying how she does x, y and z better or something).

Did he actually say this? If so, I am sorry, but he is an ass. While he may think he is just being honest, it is so not cool to tell your wife, who you claim to be trying to make a marriage work with because you fucked it up by having an emotional affair, that you are having a tough time because you are separated from the mistress. Really? He needs to completely remove her from the equation or you two don't have a fighting chance.

well yes, that's exactly my point and yes, I've said how horrible it is to hear him say that. I know he needs to, but he doesn't know how to change how he feels. It's pretty frustrating, but I know it's how he functions (heart > head). Like I said, in time either he'll change or I'll be done, I'm not there yet though.

[lostintranslation]

Nov 13, 2015 14:53:47 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Holy shit! I mean, no wonder you aren't happy, your H has strong, outwardly acknowledged feelings for someone else. I'm sorry:( That must be a very difficult way to live. He also seems to have all of the control right now, you do have choices here too.

It totally is completely shitty. I've gone back and forth about who has 'control' and what that means. I think it would be more cut and dry if he was hiding things, lying, being mean to me, being apathetic... but it's none of that. It's sort of a lose-lose. I feel like in other situations the guy is being manipulative and trying to hide everything, so in some ways at least I know exactly what I'm dealing with? He has control in the sense that yes, I am waiting to see if things can change, but I'm also making the decision that right now I do want to wait (and feeling more away that I'm making that choice, someday I might make a different one).

[lostintranslation]

Nov 13, 2015 15:15:36 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Nov 13, 2015 15:08:21 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Did he actually say this? If so, I am sorry, but he is an ass. While he may think he is just being honest, it is so not cool to tell your wife, who you claim to be trying to make a marriage work with because you fucked it up by having an emotional affair, that you are having a tough time because you are separated from the mistress. Really? He needs to completely remove her from the equation or you two don't have a fighting chance.

Right? Poor him, separated from this other woman!

yeah, believe me, I wasn't exactly comforting him. But it's not like it doesn't make sense? He wasn't asking for sympathy, he was just saying that's the reality of the situation, which isn't exactly crazy.

[formerlyak]

I know this is easier for me to say that you to feel right now - your husband sounds a lot like my ex, so your posts hit close to home for me. My ex was very much a heart > head person, and for us that is what I believe ultimately drove him off. I wanted to start to focus on saving for our kid's college and retirement and paying off debt and being a "grown up", he wanted to still behave like when we were in our early 20s and first married. In counseling he said, "I just think in a marriage you should ALWAYS be happy. And she doesn't MAKE me happy anymore." The therapist replied, "No marriage is happy 100% of the time. That marriage does not exist. And it is not your partner's responsibility to MAKE you happy." That is when he decided marriage wasn't for him and I realized he was asking something of me that simply wasn't possible.

I am sure your husband sees how happy he was with her and how easy things are with her and is romanticizing all of that in his head. Grass is always greener and all. If he is still thinking about her in this way while he is putting in the hard work for your marriage - and let's face it, there are times when marriage is hard work - the comparison between the super green grass that comes "naturally" with her and the grass that takes regular care and maintenance with you are going to look vastly different in his mind. Know what I mean?

That's why I say he either needs to figure out a way to put her out of his mind or there will likely not be the outcome you seem to be hoping for.

So my advice comes from a place of not wanting to see someone else hang their heart too much on hoping the other will change like I did. Rather you can know you love him and know you would be willing to put in the work if he was also just as willing, but you start finding your own independence and your own happiness without him ... just in case it doesn't end the way you are hoping.

[formerlyak]

Nov 13, 2015 15:17:32 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

Nov 13, 2015 14:53:47 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Holy shit! I mean, no wonder you aren't happy, your H has strong, outwardly acknowledged feelings for someone else. I'm sorry:( That must be a very difficult way to live. He also seems to have all of the control right now, you do have choices here too.

It totally is completely shitty. I've gone back and forth about who has 'control' and what that means. I think it would be more cut and dry if he was hiding things, lying, being mean to me, being apathetic... but it's none of that. It's sort of a lose-lose. I feel like in other situations the guy is being manipulative and trying to hide everything, so in some ways at least I know exactly what I'm dealing with? He has control in the sense that yes, I am waiting to see if things can change, but I'm also making the decision that right now I do want to wait (and feeling more away that I'm making that choice, someday I might make a different one).

But according to your posts, he is doing all of these things. He didn't come home the first day he realized his feelings for this woman and say, "Lost, I have an issue and I want to be honest ...", did he? And trying to make you feel bad by saying that it is just hard for him to be away from her is both mean and manipulative. He's trying to get you to feel sorry for him.

[lostintranslation]

formerlyak thanks, I appreciate your sharing and honesty

[formerlyak]

lostintranslation - I know what you are going through and it is not fun in the least. Hardest thing I have done ever in my life was realizing when it was time to just let go.

[lostintranslation]

Nov 13, 2015 15:29:34 GMT -5 formerlyak said:

Nov 13, 2015 15:17:32 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

It totally is completely shitty. I've gone back and forth about who has 'control' and what that means. I think it would be more cut and dry if he was hiding things, lying, being mean to me, being apathetic... but it's none of that. It's sort of a lose-lose. I feel like in other situations the guy is being manipulative and trying to hide everything, so in some ways at least I know exactly what I'm dealing with? He has control in the sense that yes, I am waiting to see if things can change, but I'm also making the decision that right now I do want to wait (and feeling more away that I'm making that choice, someday I might make a different one).

But according to your posts, he is doing all of these things. He didn't come home the first day he realized his feelings for this woman and say, "Lost, I have an issue and I want to be honest ...", did he? And trying to make you feel bad by saying that it is just hard for him to be away from her is both mean and manipulative. He's trying to get you to feel sorry for him.

Ok, I have to say this just isn't true - he wasn't saying it to get sympathy or get anything out of me, it's just fact (and not exactly shocking). Yes, he admits there was a point when he realized it wasn't just nothing, but it was within a month of realizing the feelings wouldn't go away on their own that he told me (because they weren't seeing each other at work anymore) and had already started individual counseling. So while I'm still angry about how he dealt with it (and could have talked to me way sooner, before she even left the company), I don't think he's doing any of those things.

[pantsparty]

I 100% don't get this. You are saying he is devastated that he could have done this, as though that is some kind of pass for putting you through emotional torture. I'm sorry, if you admit to having an emotional affair with someone who is not your spouse, you do not then get the "luxury" of then venting to YOUR WIFE that you miss the person you had the emotional affair with. I can't wrap my mind around that incredibly selfish way of thinking.

I also don't understand what decision has to be made here. She moved on and is married. He is basically actively holding onto this relationship when it no longer exists. It seems the only purpose is to torture both you and him.

Love is a choice. It's choosing to move forward, leave the past behind, and repair your relationship. He is actively choosing to stay in the middle ground, even as you are being very kind and giving him a chance to move forward.

To me, it sounds like he is emotionally stunted, and I guess I don't know if I'd be interested in trying to repair his problem. It's also being set up that if/when he decides to move forward in repairing your marriage, you should be...grateful? Man, that is fucked up. HE should be grateful you are willing to entertain this emotional torture that he is drawing out.

ETA: and I understand it's not as simple as, "IT'S OVER!" I guess I'm just shocked at his way of thinking here. A person that had an emotional or real affair outside of his marriage shouldn't be coming to his spouse for empathy.

[jigsy]

Put me in the "I don't get it" boat with Pants. @lostintraslation - is this what you want for your life? To be comapred to some other woman - if not aloud, then in his head. Because seriously, if he can actually say those words, I can only imagine what he is thinking.

tough love time

I feel sorry for you. I don't really say that a lot, but I feel sorry that you think you deserve to be treated this way. No one should put up with it. It's not even the affair - which is awful, but you are right that he came clean (eventually) and is (now) honest about it...but I presume he is a fucking adult who has control of his thoughts and feelings. He says he is "devastated" by what he did...does he know what that word means? Or is he only devastated that it had to end, because really - it doesn't sound like he wants to move on - he just wants to dwell on the "shoulda, coulda, woulda's" And guess what - he isn't thinking of you in those situations.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but I kind of want to shake you. This is not someone who deserves your consideration on anything. If this is honestly what you want in life, and what you think your life should look like - again, I feel sorry for you.

[pantsparty]

Nov 16, 2015 17:10:12 GMT -5 jigsy said:

Put me in the "I don't get it" boat with Pants. @lostintraslation - is this what you want for your life? To be comapred to some other woman - if not aloud, then in his head. Because seriously, if he can actually say those words, I can only imagine what he is thinking.

tough love time

I feel sorry for you. I don't really say that a lot, but I feel sorry that you think you deserve to be treated this way. No one should put up with it. It's not even the affair - which is awful, but you are right that he came clean (eventually) and is (now) honest about it...but I presume he is a fucking adult who has control of his thoughts and feelings. He says he is "devastated" by what he did...does he know what that word means? Or is he only devastated that it had to end, because really - it doesn't sound like he wants to move on - he just wants to dwell on the "shoulda, coulda, woulda's" And guess what - he isn't thinking of you in those situations.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but I kind of want to shake you. This is not someone who deserves your consideration on anything. If this is honestly what you want in life, and what you think your life should look like - again, I feel sorry for you.

This is at the heart of the matter. He is acting and behaving like he has NO CONTROL over his feelings. He can't control falling in love with another person, can't control STAYING in love with that person, even though the relationship doesn't exist and he is no longer in continual contact with this person? 

I don't think I could ever feel secure being married to someone who admits this is how they think. Common sense would dictate even if you need to "get over" an emotional affair, you do so internally, and externally you work on your ACTUAL relationship. Nothing is going to change until he makes the decision to do so. I'm not even quite sure why he is putting HIMSELF through this. To me, it would be a relief to make a decision and move forward with actions that support that decision. 

[formerlyak]

That's the thing ... the h in question is an adult who does have control over his feelings. And he is using what he is feeling to manipulate the OP. I know you don't want to admit it, Lost, but he is not being a good guy. You want so badly for him to become the good guy you thought he was, but unfortunately, that ship sailed the minute he started manipulating you in this way. And he is doing a great job of it if you can't even see it.

And in response to my post you said he isn't saying these things to be mean. Why on earth would he admit to his wife that he is having trouble putting his all into your marriage because of his thoughts for the other woman? Admitting that in individual therapy so that his therapist could help him work through that and make a decision would be one thing, but saying that to his wife who is clearly hanging on to this marriage for deal life is simply mean. He is only thinking of himself here.

I get that you aren't ready to say you are done, but please do yourself a favor and stop making excuses for him. Stop dwelling on the nice guy he "can" be or "was" and look at the facts as they stand now. he is not being nice to you; he is not being fair to you; his is manipulating you because you clearly don't even see that; and he is only thinking of himself.

[MyName]

I know this thread has gotten deeper, but I'm just gonna comment on the OP.

Put those decorations up!! The situation sucks, but that doesn't mean you won't sit on your couch at night, look around at the lights and stuff, and feel happy and satisfied. It's so worth it.

I loooove Christmas, and I always decorate. I moved out of my apartment in October and stayed with my BFF through new years two years ago. BFF worked a million hours, was never home, and was usually was in Spain for Christmas, so she didn't decorate. I asked her if she minded if I did a little decorating, and she said, of course not. So I went to Walgreens, got a table top tree, and some other random stuff from a dollar store. It made such a difference in my mood!

[lostintranslation]

you're right. I think after the holidays I'm going to consider a separation.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Nov 23, 2015 20:58:17 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

you're right. I think after the holidays I'm going to consider a separation.

as someone who waffled on separating saying 'oh I'll leave him after X event' and torturing herself for nearly a decade - don't pick at that band-aid, rip the damn thing off!

[LoveBug]

Nov 24, 2015 0:57:13 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Nov 23, 2015 20:58:17 GMT -5 lostintranslation said:

you're right. I think after the holidays I'm going to consider a separation.

as someone who waffled on separating saying 'oh I'll leave him after X event' and torturing herself for nearly a decade - don't pick at that band-aid, rip the damn thing off!

+1.