Contact with Other Parent

[redshoejune]

I've been having a lot of issues with my phone and as a result I missed some calls from my X over Christmas weekend. Now he is saying that he thinks I should call him every day so that he can talk to the kids. I feel bad but not that bad. I asked the kids if they wanted to call him on Christmas morning and they said no so I didn't push it (they are 5 and almost 3).
If he calls them and I get the call then I let them talk to him. He has called maybe once a week or once every other week in the past. A couple times I didn't answer because the kids were in the tub or in the play structure at a restaurant or something. Lately with my phone issues it has been dead and I don't even see missed calls.
He says I should force them to call and that from now on he wants me to call every day at a set time. I don't want to do this for a couple reasons. First, because I only get a couple hours with them every night between daycare and bedtime and I don't want to have to plan our nights around him. I also don't want to do it because they don't like talking to him and because the 5 year old gets upset when he calls. She will have tantrums or lash out at her sister during or after the calls and it has in the past disrupted the rest of our day.
Relevant facts:
Our separation agreement says "Each parent shall have reasonable telephone contact with the kids during waking hours." I have the kids more than half time, but they only generally go 4 days max without seeing him. Longest time in our regular schedule is from Sunday evening to Thursday after school.
So two questions:
What type of contact do your kids have with your X during your parenting time, and how old are they?
In your non legal opinion do I have an obligation to do what he wants?

[jigsy]

Let me preface this with I am not a parent, so I have no idea how difficult this is for you.

The only experience I have with this is from the fathers POV. My BIL has a son, and his mother had the same opinion as you - if the kid didn't want to talk to the parent, they didn't have to. I am sure she had her reasons, but it left my BIL feeling completely disconnected from his son. He wanted to have a relationship, but it was very difficult when the mother wasn't willing to help facilitate that. As the son got older, it only got worse - and really, this kid could have used his father in his life, but the relationship wasn't as good as it could have been.

Is it fair that you have to force your kids to talk to him? No, but you have to force your kids to do a lot of things they don't want to do. If he is a good father, I would try to encourage a relationship. The tantrums might be difficult to deal with, but I feel like 4 days is a long time to go not speaking with a parent, especially at such a young age. And, while this isn't something that can be changed, I feel like a call on Christmas should have been important. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, and the kids were with him and you didn't get to speak with them because he didn't answer the phone and "the kids didn't want to".

Again, not a parent, so I may be way off base, but I have seen what the long term effects look like when one parent isn't willing to help the other parent develop the relationship. I'm sure you have your reasons, and I think every day may be a little much, but I don't think I would let the kids dictate when they speak to their father. They are young, they don't get to decide everything.

[boxertdog]

Christmas is different than a day to day call based on what's reasonable. If the situation were reversed how would you feel? 5 and 3 is way too young to make that decision, and those age kids aren't gonna be all " yes, mother I'd like to speak to dad, please. You're the parent. I kind of think you blew it. You get to decide if you are going to facilitate their relationship with their father or hinder it. Someday they will be old enough to evaluate which choice you made. Just make sure it's one you can live with.

[sparkythelawyer]

Are your phone issues permanent? If its that bug a deal to him he can call.

[doriswe]

Dec 28, 2015 20:09:15 GMT -5 boxertdog said:

Christmas is different than a day to day call based on what's reasonable. If the situation were reversed how would you feel? 5 and 3 is way too young to make that decision, and those age kids aren't gonna be all " yes, mother I'd like to speak to dad, please. You're the parent. I kind of think you blew it. You get to decide if you are going to facilitate their relationship with their father or hinder it. Someday they will be old enough to evaluate which choice you made. Just make sure it's one you can live with.

I'm here...on Christmas you should have put on your best sing-songy voice and said 'it's time to call daddy and tell him all about your gifts!' Asking if they want to is silly. It's like asking if they want to brush their teeth. You simply tell them it's what's happening and do it. Kids have temper tantrums. I can pretty much guarantee that's not the only time kiddo has them. You're trying to justify things.

Lastly, how would you feel if the situation was reversed? I suspect you'd be demanding calls so you could talk to them.

Fwiw, I think calls everyday is excessive but I think there's room for negotiation.

[closertofine]

Nothing is official for us yet, but we have agreed that the kids can call whenever they want and every evening, a call will be made at bedtime. They are sleeping here all evenings other than every other weekend they are with him. They are 2 and 4, so the conversation will be brief at best. But yes, especially on Christmas I would force a phone call. I'd really rather not have nightly contact with stbxh, but I'm sucking it up on this one.

[daisyn]

My son's phone calls with his dad changed significantly for the better when I got him an iPad so he could FaceTime. He was about 7 when I did that. Five might be too young for their own iPad but I'm sure you have a phone or tablet or computer where they can skype or FaceTime or whatever so they can see him when they talk to him.
And the calls don't have to be 30 min calls. Just a couple of minutes right? Every day I'm sure isn't possible just because things happen. But I think he's only asking for every day because you aren't trying to reasonable accommodate (and encourage) him wanting to talk to his kids. My son is 10 and I still somethings have to encourage him to talk to his dad and I make sure he talks to his dad every holiday.

[sessy]

I agree with the others. If the situation were reversed and you wanted to talk to your kids the whole "I missed your calls/have phone issues" would probably upset you. I don't restrict my kids access to their dad.

Mine are 6 and I often encourage them to call and talk to him about things, and he's always welcome to call in return. He's their dad, whatever issues I have with him are not relevant. Calling dad on Christmas especially would not have been optional.

The way my ex and I handle it, is I'll often text him first and say, "Hey the kids want to call is now ok?" He will do the same in reverse.

[pinkdutchtulips]

What type of contact do your kids have with your X during your parenting time, and how old are they?
she's 6 and xh gets ZERO time w/ her per the custody order in the RO

In your non legal opinion do I have an obligation to do what he wants?
in my non legal opinion, i think the only obligation you have is to accommodate, when its convenient for you and your schedule, to call your xh so he can talk to the kids. if you're too busy that day for one reason or another or it gets too late then skip the call.

xh per the RO (expires in 2024) doesn't get any contact with her period. if he ever cleans up and stays sober long enough to become a functioning adult, i'll have to revisit (if the court decides i should let her see him) the issue of him having ANY contact with her.

[cuddlyevil]

I don't restrict access to their dad. Nor he to me. They don't call everyday but I won't prevent them.

[sweetchix]

Dec 28, 2015 22:17:04 GMT -5 sessy said:

I agree with the others. If the situation were reversed and you wanted to talk to your kids the whole "I missed your calls/have phone issues" would probably upset you. I don't restrict my kids access to their dad.

Mine are 6 and I often encourage them to call and talk to him about things, and he's always welcome to call in return. He's their dad, whatever issues I have with him are not relevant. Calling dad on Christmas especially would not have been optional.

The way my ex and I handle it, is I'll often text him first and say, "Hey the kids want to call is now ok?" He will do the same in reverse.

All of this.

[stephreloaded]

I have an opinion that is an in-between from what people have answered so far. We have a long distance custody and phone calls and Skype calls are fundamental for the relationship between DD and her dad.

I do try to encourage her to call him about stuff. I phrase it, do you want to call your dad to talk to him about x, y and z? I think he would really like it. I use a positive tone of voice so she feels more interested in actually doing it. However, kids will be kids and a lot of times she is just not up for talking to him so I also respect that. What tends to happen is that I offer way more than she actually calls so we have a decent number of calls every week. I just don't agree with the whole, you are the parent, MAKE the kid call. I think talking to a parent and sharing a bond should be more positive emotion driven than brushing your teeth or eating vegetables and a kid being forced will actually despise having to talk to the other parent and eventually have a negative effect.

[redshoejune]

I can see that I probably should have handled Christmas differently, however when I made went along with the kids deciding they didn't want to talk with him that morning it was 8am and I fully expected to hear from him later in the day (and he had the kids all day Christmas Eve). We were out all day and my phone died at some point. The phone issue is that it won't hold a charge all day and most of the time when the battery dies I have to take it out and use an external charger which means the phone stays dead for at least a couple hours. Sometimes I can get it to charge in my car or on my computer but not always. The issue is temporary until I can get a new phone and has gotten significantly worse in the last week and a half.
Christmas day he must have called when the phone was dead because I didn't get any messages from him Friday or Saturday. I got one Sunday after the kids were in bed.

And for whoever it was who asked, he has the kids for 3 days in a row every other weekend as well as single days in between and I very rarely call. Maybe once every two months. I don't think I have talked to the kids during his time since September. He had them for Thanksgiving and they didn't call me if that makes any difference.

I ask the kids from time to time if they want to call him but they have always said no. When they have asked to call him I always let them, but he has never answered.

He has called them many times when they are with me and a lot of times DD1 will refuse to talk and refuse to come to the phone. I take the phone to her and tell her that she has to at least say hi and that she can say she doesn't feel like talking if that is the case. DD2 doesn't talk on the phone really- she carries it around and tries to push the buttons and usually ends up hanging up on him.
One of the times that this happened DD1 reached up and slapped DD2 on the face during the call out of nowhere and then ran out of the room while DD2 screamed. She has also had fits where she throws things and destroys her room as soon as she gets off the phone. When these things are happening and I am not forcing it I have no desire to force it. I especially don't want to set off big violent tantrums every day at bedtime.

[ellipses84]

When you are making decisions about the kids' relationship with their dad, a good way to put your negative feelings aside is to ask yourself, "What is the best decision for the kids that will foster healthy relationships with both parents" and "How would I feel as a parent if the situation were reversed?" And be honest with yourself.

We have court ordered phone calls for my stepson. It's once a week and on all holidays and family birthdays, at a specific time of day. The reason a judge had to require this is because SS' mother had an attitude and excuses like yours (and beyond that was very actively trying to prevent SS from having a good relationship with his father). I know it can be a PITA to get kids to talk on the phone and having a set time definitely interrupts our activities sometimes. I suggest you meet your ex halfway and be better about encouraging phone conversations if you don't want to be forced to do it every day.

Suggest you start with 1 minute calls and work your way up to a longer attention span. FaceTime or Skype definitely helps. If you have Bluetooth they could talk while you drive. Our DS gets really hyper when he skypes with relatives near bedtime. Having him play or color while they watch or talk to him, or read him books really helps. If there's a bedtime story they have at both houses, he could read it to them over the phone while they look at pictures.

[katiecj6]

Dec 28, 2015 22:15:33 GMT -5 jenny1980 said:

It was a total dick move not to call him on Christmas, especially since you were having phone issues and he couldn't reach you. I'd be super pissed if I were him. 

I agree with this. DS did not want to speak to his dad on Christmas Day because he wanted to play with his toys.
I made him stop what he was doing for 10 minutes to talk with his dad on Christmas Day. He's 6, he doesn't get to make that decision.

Also, are you doing anything to fix your phone issues? Because my ex has had a host of phone issues and it's extremely frustrating in terms of communication.'

[1confused1]

My xh and I don't get along AT ALL, but I encourage the kids (ages 8 and 6) to call their dad. Most of the time they don't want to but, if there is a long time between when they see him, I make them call him, even just to say hi.

I handed the phone to them on Christmas and said I'm sure your dad would really like to talk to you.

You have to be the adult and the parent, even though sometimes it's hard.

[katiecj6]

Dec 29, 2015 1:12:46 GMT -5 redshoejune said:

I can see that I probably should have handled Christmas differently, however when I made went along with the kids deciding they didn't want to talk with him that morning it was 8am and I fully expected to hear from him later in the day (and he had the kids all day Christmas Eve). We were out all day and my phone died at some point. The phone issue is that it won't hold a charge all day and most of the time when the battery dies I have to take it out and use an external charger which means the phone stays dead for at least a couple hours. Sometimes I can get it to charge in my car or on my computer but not always. The issue is temporary until I can get a new phone and has gotten significantly worse in the last week and a half.
Christmas day he must have called when the phone was dead because I didn't get any messages from him Friday or Saturday. I got one Sunday after the kids were in bed.

And for whoever it was who asked, he has the kids for 3 days in a row every other weekend as well as single days in between and I very rarely call. Maybe once every two months. I don't think I have talked to the kids during his time since September. He had them for Thanksgiving and they didn't call me if that makes any difference.

I ask the kids from time to time if they want to call him but they have always said no. When they have asked to call him I always let them, but he has never answered.

He has called them many times when they are with me and a lot of times DD1 will refuse to talk and refuse to come to the phone. I take the phone to her and tell her that she has to at least say hi and that she can say she doesn't feel like talking if that is the case. DD2 doesn't talk on the phone really- she carries it around and tries to push the buttons and usually ends up hanging up on him.
One of the times that this happened DD1 reached up and slapped DD2 on the face during the call out of nowhere and then ran out of the room while DD2 screamed. She has also had fits where she throws things and destroys her room as soon as she gets off the phone. When these things are happening and I am not forcing it I have no desire to force it. I especially don't want to set off big violent tantrums every day at bedtime.

Just because you chose not to call when they are with their dad, doesn't mean he can't call when they are with you. (Not a dig about not calling, I only call DS if it's a holiday, otherwise I don't.)

Your CO says that he's entitled to reasonable access during waking hours, and I don't think you are being reasonable. There's a middle ground between calls every night and no calls at all.

[jojoandleo]

My Niece has nightly phone calls with whoever is away form her. It is in their court order, though. There is a standard time to call. They use facetime. My sister will call her ex on facetime and just point the phone at niece. Niece can talk if she wants, or keep playing while her dad watches. Sometimes niece doesn't want to talk and no one forces her to.

Why do your kids have such a strong reaction after talking to their dad on the phone? That is something I think needs to be addressed. Are your kids in therapy? That is not a normal reaction. I don't know if she reacts that way because her dad isn't a good influence, or just the stress of the divorce, or if she is picking up on YOUR feelings.

All in all, if the dad is a good dad (regardless of how good of a partner he was) you should do everything to facilitate a relationship. How would you feel if the situation was reversed.

If I had a child and I wasn't able to talk to my kid on Christmas, I would be devastated. And you bet your ass I would be rude to you about it.

[jellymankelly]

Dec 28, 2015 22:18:07 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

In your non legal opinion do I have an obligation to do what he wants?
in my non legal opinion, i think the only obligation you have is to accommodate, when its convenient for you and your schedule, to call your xh so he can talk to the kids. if you're too busy that day for one reason or another or it gets too late then skip the call.

I think your opinion is based on your own situation. Of course this advice works for you, but I don't think it is good advice in your average co-parenting relationship. In a typical joint custody situation, it's just good co-parenting to do what you can to facilitate a good relationship between your child and their other parent, even if it's not always what is convenient for you at the time.

[1confused1]

Dec 29, 2015 13:20:46 GMT -5 jellymankelly said:

Dec 28, 2015 22:18:07 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

In your non legal opinion do I have an obligation to do what he wants?
in my non legal opinion, i think the only obligation you have is to accommodate, when its convenient for you and your schedule, to call your xh so he can talk to the kids. if you're too busy that day for one reason or another or it gets too late then skip the call.

I think your opinion is based on your own situation. Of course this advice works for you, but I don't think it is good advice in your average co-parenting relationship. In a typical joint custody situation, it's just good co-parenting to do what you can to facilitate a good relationship between your child and their other parent, even if it's not always what is convenient for you at the time.

I kind of disagree with you on this one.  If I'm out with my kids or on vacation and XH wants to talk with the kids, I will not interrupt what we are doing to allow for a phone call.  If there is a time that works, then, yes, they can talk to him.

Our court order allows for a phone call on Thursday nights, I typically have them talk to him more than that, but sometimes he doesn't even use his time.

[jojoandleo]

Dec 29, 2015 13:41:37 GMT -5 1confused1 said:

Dec 29, 2015 13:20:46 GMT -5 jellymankelly said:

I think your opinion is based on your own situation. Of course this advice works for you, but I don't think it is good advice in your average co-parenting relationship. In a typical joint custody situation, it's just good co-parenting to do what you can to facilitate a good relationship between your child and their other parent, even if it's not always what is convenient for you at the time.

I kind of disagree with you on this one.  If I'm out with my kids or on vacation and XH wants to talk with the kids, I will not interrupt what we are doing to allow for a phone call.  If there is a time that works, then, yes, they can talk to him.

Our court order allows for a phone call on Thursday nights, I typically have them talk to him more than that, but sometimes he doesn't even use his time.

There is a difference in being on vacation and just being "too busy" to call.  I don't expect people to stop their vacation for a call.  I do expect people to make time during the busy day that is Christmas and call.  I don't think it is asking too much to call a parent at night before bed, even though there is the hectic routine of baths, teeth brushing, stories, and "just a glass of water" requests.  Sometimes you are slightly inconvenienced to make things better for your kids.  it is a part of being a parent. 

I think those that have terrible exes (ROs against them, they are abusive) have a very different, and understandably so, view.  When your ex is a good dad, but a shitty partner, you have to put your feelings aside and sometimes be inconvenienced.  My mom hated my dad and I never knew.  They spent time together, she was flexible with him when need be, she made us go see him when we didn't want to (because we were fucking kids who wanted to play with our neighbor at MOM'S HOUSE! and she was the adult who knew we needed our dad).  I am 100% positive it sucked for her.  I am 100% positive it was beneficial for us.

[formerlyak]

Stop asking the kids if they want to call dad and tell them "it's time to call dad." They are young and whatever they are doing at the moment is going to be more exciting than talking on the phone, so more often than not if you ask them they will say no. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to want to talk to be kids once a day when they are with you and vice versa. Setting up a time isn't as big a deal as you are making it to be. I get the short time in the evenings between daycare and bed part - I have 3 hours. But we schedule our call for when I'm cooking dinner or cleaning up from dinner and have done this since ex left when ds was 3. It actually makes life easier because then I don't have to listen to him bitch about not talking to ds.