Love, Marriage & Monogamy

[TR]

Ew to that guy. Disappointing.

[glitzyglow]

Did he just flat out say he lies? I'm so curious how he justifies his behavior.

[Deleted]

Feb 9, 2016 7:45:08 GMT -5 @32flavors said:

Feb 8, 2016 21:14:50 GMT -5 glitzyglow said:

Did he just flat out say he lies? I'm so curious how he justifies his behavior.

Yes! I said I'm honest to a fault, I'm likely to be blunt and stick my foot in my mouth. He said that he isn't like that at all. He lies to save feelings.


Wtf

Hmmm I took this has the white lie kind of thing like when someone asks how they look saying "great" when they don't really don't look all that good. Or telling someone their new kitchen remodel looks great when it doesn't. Obviously you were in the convo, but if it went down as you described it doesn't seem that wtf worthy. I can see how it may not be a quality you want but this doesn't sound like this is the I said I was with my buddies at the pub but instead was getting a lap dance type of liar.

[Deleted]

Feb 9, 2016 10:55:44 GMT -5 @32flavors said:

Feb 9, 2016 10:46:29 GMT -5 @pdx18 said:

Hmmm I took this has the white lie kind of thing like when someone asks how they look saying "great" when they don't really don't look all that good. Or telling someone their new kitchen remodel looks great when it doesn't. Obviously you were in the convo, but if it went down as you described it doesn't seem that wtf worthy. I can see how it may not be a quality you want but this doesn't sound like this is the I said I was with my buddies at the pub but instead was getting a lap dance type of liar.

No, it was the latter.  We were specifically discussing lies/honesty in the context of dating and relationships. It wasn't like, "I'll say someone looks great when they don't" it was, "If I want to date other people I just won't tell them I am."

I suppose that it was his honesty about his lying that turned me off. Does that count as irony?

Got it. Hahah that is pretty ironic.

[glitzyglow]

He's delusional if he truly believes his lies haven't hurt people. Glad that came out of him early!

[pandora]

Well, he sounds like a catch. Blech. At least he was honest enough about his dishonesty, I suppose...

[Wanderista]

Just listened to this, I have been a fan of Dan Savage for quite a while. I've read his column sometimes and I appreciate his message. I wasn't familiar with Esther Perel but I appreciated hearing her approach. I have some familiarity with "European" sexuality because I lived there for multiple years, including as an exchange student in a secondary school at one point.

I don't think that all Europeans have a better handle on sex than all Americans at all. I know that's not what she is saying but I honestly think that there is a happy medium between the good elements of American youth culture and the good elements of European youth culture which is probably close to the ideal. I agree entirely about the dangers of abstinence-only sex ed though.

As for monogamy, I have thought a lot about this. I agree with both Savage and Perel that people should be able to have ongoing conversations about what they want. Also, people should be able to define and redefine their relationships in the ways that they personally want. I agree very much about the root of societal pressures and the role of sexuality in an evolving society that Perel described. Basically, I agree on a lot with both of them.

[Wanderista]

Also, my problematic ex who I split with in 2013 in a very painful break up, was Croatian. I think one of the problems that he had was that while he was an atheist, he seemed to have absorbed a lot of "Catholic guilt" from growing up in a really staunchly Catholic society. (I'm not anti-Catholic at all, he just seemed to have developed a lot of hang ups about sex from a kind of repressive moralism that was present in his childhood home & family). He also had not received any sex ed while attending "good" schools. I could see the effects of this lack of early sexual education in him. He was very superstitious and uninformed about a lot of things.

Anyway, he's an example of a European who did not get a quality sexual education from his schools. I think he would have benefited a lot if he had had that. 

I only say that because it is easy to generalize about "European" and "American" approaches to sexuality. There are certainly some trends and tendencies but there is also a lot of variety.

[al320]

Esther Perel gives one of my favorite ted talks www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_the_secret_to_desire_in_a_long_term_relationship?language=en