Hypothetical ? Who would be at fault?

[sweetchix]

On my way home from work I drive down a 4 lane road with a center turning lane. That center lane eventually becomes a left turn lane that I use to turn left at a light. There are several businesses on the road and cars turn left, across two lane and into the center turning lane and continue to drive down it to the light (approximate a tenth to a quarter of a mile). My question is, if I were to stay in the driving lane until the center lane turns into the left turning lane but someone from one of the businesses is driving down the center lane prior to it becoming a left turn only lane, and we hit each other, who would be at fault?

My thought would be the center lane driver since that is just a center turning lane and not a true driving lane. I would think I would have the right of way since I am in the true driving lane up through the point that I move into the left turn only lane?

I hope this makes sense. I'm almost confusing myself as I'm typing this. Do I need a picture? lol

ETA: details

[Deleted]

It depends?  Are you crossing the dotted line (legal)? Or a solid line? to get into the center lane at whatever point you entered??  If you entered "illegally", then the person already there may be in the right.  I think.

[sweetchix]

Feb 8, 2016 22:23:03 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

It depends?  Are you crossing the dotted line (legal)? Or a solid line? to get into the center lane at whatever point you entered??  If you entered "illegally", then the person already there may be in the right.  I think.

I'm in the actual driving lane. The center turning lane (outside solid yellow, inside dotted yellow line) become a legal left turn lane only, left arrow painted on the road and a left turn signal. The other driver is driving inside the yellow lined center lane all the way up to it becoming a left only lane. Does that help?

[sweetchix]

Here's a pic. Obviously not to scale, lmao

[Deleted]

Feb 8, 2016 22:28:37 GMT -5 sweetchix said:

Feb 8, 2016 22:23:03 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

It depends?  Are you crossing the dotted line (legal)? Or a solid line? to get into the center lane at whatever point you entered??  If you entered "illegally", then the person already there may be in the right.  I think.

I'm in the actual driving lane. The center turning lane (outside solid yellow, inside dotted yellow line) become a legal left turn lane only, left arrow painted on the road and a left turn signal. The other driver is driving inside the yellow lined center lane all the way up to it becoming a left only lane. Does that help?

Is it an actual driving lane (where they are in the center before it becomes Left only?)  Are they turning or just riding in there and then get out out the last second?

www.newyorksafetycouncil.com/articles/new-york-traffic-markings.aspx

[Deleted]

Now I see your pic....shit...honestly I'm not sure.

ETA: are they even allowed to make that left turn across traffic? ETA:  out of the business

 It seems like those businesses should have a light at their exit or a right turn only sign.

[sweetchix]

Feb 8, 2016 22:43:17 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

Now I see your pic....shit...honestly I'm not sure.

ETA: are they even allowed to make that left turn across traffic? ETA:  out of the business

 It seems like those businesses should have a light at their exit or a right turn only sign.

Well I *think* they're supposed to pull into that center lane and wait until traffic in the driving lane is clear, move into the driving lane, and *then* move into the left turn only lane. I don't believe that center lane is meant for driving in.

ETA: seems like a pain to pull into that center lane, move out of it, just to move into it again at the light, but I'm pretty sure that's the correct way to do it.

[Deleted]

Feb 8, 2016 22:50:09 GMT -5 sweetchix said:

Feb 8, 2016 22:43:17 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

Now I see your pic....shit...honestly I'm not sure.

ETA: are they even allowed to make that left turn across traffic? ETA:  out of the business

 It seems like those businesses should have a light at their exit or a right turn only sign.

Well I *think* they're supposed to pull into that center lane and wait until traffic in the driving lane is clear, move into the driving lane, and *then* move into the left turn only lane. I don't believe that center lane is meant for driving in.

Yes, I agree with that.  However, I'd probably drive in it if I were leaving one business to go right into another.  That doesn't mean it's right.

[Deleted]

They would be at fault. The center lane is just for waiting for traffic to clear

Usually, at least here, the yellow lines turn to double-solid lines before getting to the turn lane so it would be illegal to cross them.

They should turn out, pull into the lane, then get into the turn lane at the appropriate time

[sweetchix]

Feb 8, 2016 22:54:51 GMT -5 @gracie6414 said:

I think the reason they are there doesn't matter if you are crossing over a solid line on your side of the center lane.

Do you mean me, in the pic? I'm not crossing a solid yellow. The yellow line to the left of me in the pic moves over to create a third lane, the left turn only lane. I tried to show the third lane in the pic, but it does make it look like there is a solid yellow. In actuality it is a solid *white* line to show separation of the turn lane and the lane going straight (the one I was in until moving over).

[glitzyglow]

This is what I found, and it sounds like it's not clearly defined: franklincony.org/content/departments/View/24:field=services;/content/DepartmentServices/View/105:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/3919.doc

[sweetchix]

Feb 8, 2016 23:28:42 GMT -5 glitzyglow said:

This is what I found, and it sounds like it's not clearly defined: franklincony.org/content/departments/View/24:field=services;/content/DepartmentServices/View/105:field=documents;/content/Documents/File/3919.doc

That at least spells out what I was thinking, that the lane is not intended for moving traffic. Based on that, I'd say the person in that lane, who continues to drive in it, would be at fault. Although, as @gracie6414 mentioned, they may put the hypothetical me at fault too for not checking the lane before moving over. So yeah, still not totally clear. Maybe there is no definitive answer.

Edited to tag Gracie.

[sweetchix]

Feb 8, 2016 23:39:54 GMT -5 @gracie6414 said:

Id have a hard time believing you would not be at fault for moving your vehicle into another lane occupied by another vehicle and there by hitting their vehicle

Also I'm Canadian so maybe our laws are different ?
I mean if I understand your updates by the time you moved into the turn lane it was already a one way turn lane and had no solid yellow line, but if there is a vehicle there you can't just drive into the other vehicle you know?
In my province that would likely be a 50/50 split for fault

I'm thinking you may be right about the 50/50.

BUT... The other car shouldn't be there. Wouldn't I have the right of way? I guess I'm thinking of it too much like a "running the red light" situation. If I have a green light, and I start moving into the intersection, but a car coming perpendicular to me runs the red light, it wouldn't be 50/50. Would it? Sure, you should always check the intersection before moving into it, but one would expect others to know the rules of driving. And yeah I realize that these two examples are quite different. I guess I'm just putting way too much thought into this because it just bugs me that people do that and then I have to yield to them when it should be the other way around.

[glitzyglow]

sweetchix, I think it would depend on how long the person actually traveled in the center left turn lane. It might be unnecessary for the person to use the center left turn lane to merge right just to immediately get into the left turn lane to turn left. If that's the case, they would be better off staying put. They should be on high alert to incoming left turners, but if you hit them while getting into the left turn lane, you'd be at fault for not checking before merging. I think each officer would have to make an individual call.

[jojoandleo]

You guys, not every accident is 100% one driver's fault. There is a reason there are so many personal injury and insurance defense attorneys. There are always arguments to be made. Just check before getting in the lane and don't get into an accident.

No one can answer this question for you because there are thousands of variables that may change the answer.

[sweetchix]

Feb 9, 2016 9:00:15 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

You guys, not every accident is 100% one driver's fault. There is a reason there are so many personal injury and insurance defense attorneys. There are always arguments to be made. Just check before getting in the lane and don't get into an accident.

No one can answer this question for you because there are thousands of variables that may change the answer.

Unserstood. I guess I was just annoyed that people were driving along that lane when numerous other cars then had to yeild to them. I was just curious to know if one or the other would be at fault. I can understand that both could be accountable for different reasons.

[glynn]

Feb 8, 2016 22:50:09 GMT -5 sweetchix said:

Feb 8, 2016 22:43:17 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

Now I see your pic....shit...honestly I'm not sure.

ETA: are they even allowed to make that left turn across traffic? ETA:  out of the business

 It seems like those businesses should have a light at their exit or a right turn only sign.

Well I *think* they're supposed to pull into that center lane and wait until traffic in the driving lane is clear, move into the driving lane, and *then* move into the left turn only lane. I don't believe that center lane is meant for driving in.

ETA: seems like a pain to pull into that center lane, move out of it, just to move into it again at the light, but I'm pretty sure that's the correct way to do it.

I agree with all of this. This is the way the road is in front of my office.