Giving extended notice

[bunch]

This is for dh... he requests your assistance.



DH is a design engineer for a very large energy company.   He received an offer yesterday for an energy supplier doing something non engineering related.   He plans to take the job, which is a huge pay cut up front, and his start date is 4/11.   

When does he give his current company notice?

Relevant facts:

He doesn't think he'll be walked out as he's not moving to a competitor.

He will be receiving a promotion at his current job to senior engineer in March, at which time he will go from 4w vacation a year to no vacation.  This would obviously be a huge loss for us as his vaca wouldn't be paid out, but the promotion is already in the works.

His yearly bonus is supposed to come sometime in April, but he has no way of knowing when.  It's in the 8% of salary range.

He has several patents in the works for which he is paid a lump sum for once they are finalized.  The timeline is not in his hands, but it's possible some could hit before April.


I know that this is definitely a situation where he wants to have his cake and eat it too, but damn is the timing bad for leaving.   Is there a way to negotiate keeping some of these things even if they don't come to fruition before his leave date?    He's never quit a job before.  Help!

[Lilac]

What is driving the start date at the new company? Usually companies want new employees RIGHT NOW, so it's unusual that the job starts in April. Is there any way that the start date could get pushed back a few more weeks so that he can receive his bonus? I'm involved in a lot of hiring for my department (also engineering). We had one candidate request to delay his start by a month b/c of a similar bonus situation. We accommodated it with no issue. Some companies may offer to "buy out" the value of the bonus to have the candidate start on time.

I wouldn't give notice at the current job until 3-4 weeks in advance. And why is he losing all his vacation?? That sounds terrible.

[imojoebunny]

2 weeks notice. I have seen some people give more notice, like I they were getting married (moving to spouses location), retiring, or moving to another state for some other reason, without being walked out, but that is not the norm. Most of the time, once you give notice, companies want you gone, especially if they are going to have to pay out bonuses or extra cost shortly before you leave.

If he is leaving so close to getting his bonus/patent payouts, did he try to negotiate the new company paying it? I have done that a couple of times for bonuses.

Not the question in the post, but how does a company give someone a promotion and take away 4W of vacation? How is that a promotion?

[bunch]

The start date is firm. He'll be in training for the first 4 mos and everyone starts together. He'll lose his vacation because it'll switch to a "take all the vacation you want" plan, which is really just a way for him not to have it paid out.

He's trying to negotiate some kind of sign on bonus, but pay at his new job is very structured and the hiring manager doesn't have many options.

[aurora]

I get that they can stop him accruing vacation but can they really take away vacation he already earned? That seems like it would be illegal.

He may be SOL on the bonus since he really should give at least 2 weeks notice, so that would be in March.

I guess I'd look more into the vacation situation and then likely giv 2-3 weeks notice. It doesn't seem like he has much reason to give more.

[snowflurry]

I'd give the 2 weeks.

Depending on how the bonus is structured, he may still receive it regardless of when he leaves. i.e. at my company, if you are employed on 1/1 of the year, then you receive the bonus earned in the previous year (work on 1/1/16, get the 2015 bonus even if you quit on 1/2/16). ETA:  2015 bonus is paid out in Feb/march of 2016.

Vacation accrued should also be paid out regardless but that is also dependent on company policy.

At my last job, I gave 4 weeks notice because I was trying to be nice and help with a replacement. They wanted me gone in 2 weeks because they did not want to pay for several company holidays. I managed to convince them to let me stay 3 weeks as a compromise. In hindsight, I shouldn't have been nice and should have just done the 2 weeks.

[starryfish]

Give 2 weeks notice only.

[mainelyfoolish]

Two weeks notice. There is no benefit and a lot of potential downside to giving more notice. You are not required to be "nice" to your employer.

[mainelyfoolish]

Vacation payout is dependent on company policy, with the exception of a few states that require it. If you're not in one of those states and the policy is no payout, then you're out of luck.

[Pom]

I see no point in giving more than 2 weeks.

I would hope he can salvage some, if not all, of the bonus.

[steamboat185]

2 weeks and don't count on the bonus. Every place I know of won't give you your bonus if you put in notice anytime before it pays out.

[Poppy]

I received a bonus check about a month after leaving my first [engineering] company. I did leave on good terms and had given 3.5w notice. I think they paid it because I was there for the whole bonus period (and had done my associated evaluation, even though bonuses had not been finalized by the time I left). I believe the company also paid patents even after an employee had left? But I could be wrong, I didn't have any there.

Anyway, I agree that he should not worry about giving >2w notice. I personally would rather get the vacation payout and leave early, if that was the choice. That seems like about the same amount of money as the bonus but he wouldn't have to work for that month, so that seems like a win.

[womet]

I know this sounds crazy, but what if he gave notice before the promotion went into effect? Would he get paid out his vacation then? If so, then he'd have time off before the new job and would still get paid for that time (if he has that much vacation banked)

[bunch]

This is so helpful, thanks.   

[Deleted]

Would he start in like mid-April or start in early April?

He should negotiate vacation time for 2016 and beyond. Don't just take that no vacation for a year, and then 2 wks a year BS. NEGOTIATE for the days that you want this year - specific days if you have them - and then negotiate on the other stuff.

ETA: ask for the 4 weeks (maybe not 4 weeks this year, but 4 weeks in 2017)! 

Also try to negotiate a later start. are they starting a class of people? Is there another class in May or June? That would put him in line for bonus.

I also would not give more notice than benefited me personally. If I was going to risk being without income, I would want to only have the potential of the max I was willing to use.  I'd give a min of 2 weeks. You never know what's going to happen between now and April. 

[mrssandro]

2 weeks only.

[LoveTrains]

2 weeks only is absolute crazy talk in my line of work. I gave a month of notice at my last job and they wanted me to stay for more like 6-8 weeks. If I have two weeks notice I would get practically get blacklisted in my field.

[bunch]

Dh ended up having an 'unofficial' talk with his direct boss. Boss is checking on the vacation time for him, but right now he plans to give 3-4 w official notice. If he ends up with his 'unlimited' vacation time promotion he'll take off a week or two before he quits. Bonus amounts are supposed to be posted this week, so we're hoping that's a sign that they're from last year's performance and will still be earned.

Thanks for all of the help!

[vanillacourage]

How much vacation does he have banked?  If he's really going to lose it all but would be paid out if he quits sooner, I'd quit at 2 weeks ahead of whatever the gap is between banked vacation and new job. Let them pay him to chill at home for a nice long break. (This is assuming he doesn't get anywhere with getting paid for the bonus or patents.)