A country where everything is free but us?

[Deleted]

From Paul Ryan's speech last night:

"None of us -- none of us have to settle for the best this
administration offers, a dull, adventureless journey from one
entitlement to the next, a government-planned life, a country
where everything is free but us."

I have a friend who is a conservative activist and posts nothing but conservative talking points on Twitter and Facebook, and this "freedom" meme is common in his posts. His posts essentially imply that Obama is a tyrant and only Republicans value freedom.

I'm really, really sick of this. We are no less free under Obama than we were under W than we were under Clinton and so on.

Do people honestly believe that we are a less free society than we were 4 years ago? 8? 12? Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't get it.

[IIOY]

Aug 30, 2012 6:28:51 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Do people honestly believe that we are a less free society than we were 4 years ago? 8? 12? Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't get it.

I don't think this is what PR was referring to, but this makes me think of things like The Patriot Act and TSA, which I do see as chipping away at our liberty.

[soontobeka]

A government planned life? *wipes her eyes* what does that even mean coming from a man who is a career politician.

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2012 6:33:12 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Aug 30, 2012 6:28:51 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Do people honestly believe that we are a less free society than we were 4 years ago? 8? 12? Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't get it.

I don't think this is what PR was referring to, but this makes me think of things like The Patriot Act and TSA, which I do see as chipping away at our liberty.

That I would agree with.

I think it frustrates me when I see my friend say all this stuff about Republicans = freedom and Democrats = tyranny because as is obvious from the above, these types of things are hardly limited to one party.

[IIOY]

Are you able to post what he said before and after this? I didn't watch the speech - I had collapsed into bed before 9:30! - but my completely baseless guess is that he is referring to how intertwined our daily lives are with, and how dependent our daily lives are upon, the government, which is anathema to a small-government agenda.

[Deleted]

"None of us -- none of us have to settle". But we are and we will continue to. It has nothing to do with what the current or the previous govt has done but with what Americans think they value and need. It also depends what you define as entitlement.

[soontobeka]

Aug 30, 2012 6:40:42 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Are you able to post what he said before and after this?

But we are four years into this presidency. The issue is
not the economy that Barack Obama inherited, not the economy as
he envisions, but this economy that we are living.
College graduates should not have to live out their 20s in
their childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters and
wondering when they can move out and get going with life.
(APPLAUSE)
Everyone -- everyone who feels stuck in the Obama economy
is right to focus on the here and now. And I hope you
understand this too, if you're feeling left out or passed by:
You have not failed, your leaders have failed you.
(APPLAUSE)
None of us -- none of us have to settle for the best this
administration offers, a dull, adventureless journey from one
entitlement to the next, a government-planned life, a country
where everything is free but us. (APPLAUSE)
Listen to the way we're already spoken to -- listen to the
way we are spoken to already, as if everyone is stuck in some
class or station in life, victims of circumstances beyond our
control, with government there to help us cope with our fate.

It's the exact opposite of everything I learned
growing up in Wisconsin, or at college in Ohio.




Read more: www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/29/transcript-paul-ryan-speech-at-rnc/#ixzz251sB5kLD

[soontobeka]

I truly do not understand what he is saying. Government won't help us move up in life when we are stuck at one station?

This is coming from a man who went to college on the survivorship benefits of social security after his father passed away. Government helped him move up in life and give him the education he has obtained. Yes, he worked hard in college but the option of college would not have been a possibility without the government and government programs.

[IIOY]

OK, I read this as a metaphorical freedom issue, the idea being that the economic malaise and consequent financial funk that has driven so many more people to fall behind in bill payment, need assistance, etc., is a loss of freedom for them. Basically people feel trapped.

[IIOY]

Aug 30, 2012 6:53:11 GMT -5 soontobeka said:

I truly do not understand what he is saying. Government won't help us move up in life when we are stuck at one station?

This is coming from a man who went to college on the survivorship benefits of social security after his father passed away. Government helped him move up in life and give him the education he has obtained. Yes, he worked hard in college but the option of college would not have been a possibility without the government and government programs.

I think here the argument might be that the public sector has crowded out the private. Basically people have no choice but to rely upon the government for, say, student loans because the government has inserted itself. Likewise with SS and Medicare - people have no choice to opt-out and are forced to participate.

[soontobeka]

Aug 30, 2012 6:58:17 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Aug 30, 2012 6:53:11 GMT -5 soontobeka said:

I truly do not understand what he is saying. Government won't help us move up in life when we are stuck at one station?

This is coming from a man who went to college on the survivorship benefits of social security after his father passed away. Government helped him move up in life and give him the education he has obtained. Yes, he worked hard in college but the option of college would not have been a possibility without the government and government programs.

I think here the argument might be that the public sector has crowded out the private. Basically people have no choice but to rely upon the government for, say, student loans because the government has inserted itself. Likewise with SS and Medicare - people have no choice to opt-out and are forced to participate.

I can see that. But also there are those industries that solely depend on the government (Lockheed, for one) that is private but cannot survive without the government. Around here, when there are any cuts mentioned that might affect Lockheed, we hear how the government sucks and they are cutting jobs.

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2012 6:55:47 GMT -5 IIOY said:

OK, I read this as a metaphorical freedom issue, the idea being that the economic malaise and consequent financial funk that has driven so many more people to fall behind in bill payment, need assistance, etc., is a loss of freedom for them. Basically people feel trapped.

Interesting. That makes sense. I guess I would just dispute in that case that either party has an actual answer. The financial crisis was so much more than one party's doing.

My annoyance is colored by the fact that this particular conservative activist friend has basically spent the entirety of the Obama presidency pushing this nebulous idea that Republicans are the party of freedom. The few times I've tried to engage him to find out more, I get no response. I genuinely do not understand how

[IIOY]

Aug 30, 2012 7:01:41 GMT -5 soontobeka said:

I can see that. But also there are those industries that solely depend on the government (Lockheed, for one) that is private but cannot survive without the government. Around here, when there are any cuts mentioned that might affect Lockheed, we hear how the government sucks and they are cutting jobs.

Agreed. I think the issue there, however, is that in theory (operative words here), contracting work out to the quasi-private or private sector includes competitive bidding and quality oversight, making it a more efficient use of taxpayer money. In reality and IME, government oversight is crap and many government contractors get away with a tremendous amount of waste. To me, the answer isn't that the government should get into the business itself, but that it should exercise far stricter oversight of the work that it contracts out. I feel like any discovery of waste or fraud is greeted with a collective shrug. I don't understand this at all.

[IIOY]

Aug 30, 2012 7:16:53 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Aug 30, 2012 6:55:47 GMT -5 IIOY said:

OK, I read this as a metaphorical freedom issue, the idea being that the economic malaise and consequent financial funk that has driven so many more people to fall behind in bill payment, need assistance, etc., is a loss of freedom for them. Basically people feel trapped.

Interesting. That makes sense. I guess I would just dispute in that case that either party has an actual answer. The financial crisis was so much more than one party's doing.

ITA.

Can I just say that I made the mistake of watching a documentary recently that talked about the debt and it made me hate W all over again? I was actively stabby for about 24 hours. Even my H, who tends to be the stabby one around here, was laughing and telling me to chill out.

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2012 7:21:33 GMT -5 IIOY said:

Aug 30, 2012 7:16:53 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

Interesting. That makes sense. I guess I would just dispute in that case that either party has an actual answer. The financial crisis was so much more than one party's doing.

ITA.

Can I just say that I made the mistake of watching a documentary recently that talked about the debt and it made me hate W all over again? I was actively stabby for about 24 hours. Even my H, who tends to be the stabby one around here, was laughing and telling me to chill out.

LOL. This is also part of why I have trouble with the idea of Paul Ryan as some sort of fiscally conservative budget wunderkind. I mean, he basically rubber-stamped everything Bush wanted, but two years after Bush left office, he had some sort of magical awakening? I wonder if he has a bridge to sell me.

[IIOY]

Aug 30, 2012 7:25:16 GMT -5 @angryharpy said:

LOL. This is also part of why I have trouble with the idea of Paul Ryan as some sort of fiscally conservative budget wunderkind. I mean, he basically rubber-stamped everything Bush wanted, but two years after Bush left office, he had some sort of magical awakening? I wonder if he has a bridge to sell me.

You know what's interesting about PR's rise? In many respects it was engineered by Obama. Once PR went out on a limb and created a budget, Obama saw PR's budget as a good bogeyman and started mentioning it and PR in his economic speeches. Suddenly PR was someone to be reckoned with.