Ferber - come in and help me. LONG

[countthestars]

I need to talk this out.

DS is 5 months and a week. From 2-4 months he generally slept 8p-7a in mostly 2.5-3 hours stretches but went as long as 6-7 hours a couple of times. He would eat quickly and go right back into his rock and play.

As the 4 month wakeful approached he started getting up every 45 minutes - 1.5 hours. We made a more solid bedtime routine and played around with bedtimes between 6 and 8 with no real differences. He would sleep 3-4 hours in the first stretch without eating but typically required a quick rock and shush 1-3 times in that stretch. Then many nights we were up every 45-90 minutes with a few good nights of 3 hour stretches. On the bad nights he would often fall asleep as soon as I picked him up or while nursing and wake as soon as we put him down so I started letting him sleep on me for much of the night because we are all exhausted.

He is/was still swaddled arms in except when sleeping with me. We have tried without but he loves to take out his pacifier and then gets mad.

We decided to start Ferber this weekend because 1) we can't keep waking so much and/or cosleeping and 2) we are going on vacation in a month and it would be easier if we were not doing this dumb dog and pony show at all times to get him down. However, we also know he can sleep long stretches from before the 4MW and think (or thought) he was ready.

Night 1. Decided to move him to his crib and try not to swaddle. Want to keep the pacifier. Kept him up a little later than usual per the book. Did bedtime routine - he was sleeping during nursing and falling asleep but woke as I put him down.  He cried for 1 hour exactly before falling asleep. We did checks and replaced the paci and ended up swaddling his arms after about 15 minutes because the flailing was just crazy. He slept for 4 hours, ate, cried again for a half hour with checks and then slept 3.5 more hours. At that point I fed him again and he wasn't looking sleepy at all so we got up (it was 5). We played until 6:30 and then napped together for an hour.

Night 2. Same everything. Cried for 6 minutes of the 20 that it took to fall asleep (cried off and on so we did do the checks). Yay! Woke after 3 hours. Cried for 45 minutes with checks. Slept for an hour and 15. Fed him. Cried for ~25 minutes with checks. Slept for an hour and 15. Cried for ~15 minutes. Slept for an hour. Fed him. Cried for ~12 minutes. Slept for an hour. Fed him and brought him into my bed so we could both snooze. I know we weren't supposed to do that but....

What do we do now? Keep it up? Throw in the towel for a bit? Of course in the middle of the night I was second guessing what we were doing - is he too young? Were we just doing it for us and not for him? What if he needs to burp? Are we torturing him by giving him the pacifier but swaddling his arms so he can't grab at it (I don't think he can put it back in alone anyway but it falls out within the first 30 seconds between checks and he calms as soon as he has it again so that seems cruel).

We have a Merlin Sleep Suit that might be a good compromise?

I hate this.

[redheadk]

The second night is harder for a lot of people. I'd give it a few more nights and I'd switch to the sleepsuit.

[dcn]

So you just described why I failed at Ferber the first time. He needed to be swaddled and I felt like it wasn't fair to let him cry without access to hands etc. He was sleeping in 2-3 hr chunks and I just nursed him bc it was easy.

I ended up waiting until he was older and not swaddled to Ferber.

If I were you I might keep trying for a few more nights since it can take a week or so to click. You could try swaddling with one arm out?

[AmyRI]

It's only night 2. Night 1 seems like a success, so I think he's ready.

Make a plan now when no one is screaming and pick if you're going to swaddle, use the sleep suit, or go cold turkey. It's really up to you how much you can handle at once. (I am a weenie and would probably keep the swaddle.)

And pick a hard and fast amount of time between feedings. I think we started with 4 hours. But spacing out feedings really helped, and as the nights went on, we made the time from bedtime to first feeding longer until we were getting a good 6 or 7 hour stretch before the first wake up.

Hugs. Sleep training is hard, but you all need sleep.

[demofea01]

May I suggest the Sleep Lady Shuffle to try? That's what we used and it worked really nicely for my son. Ferber and CIO sometimes aren't for every kid. We did the shuffle with my son right around your LO's age

[soozy87]

The way we saw it was if we gave up all of his crying was wasted. Get rid of the swaddle and keep going!

[Myrrhine]

I think it's too soon to say it's not working. I would give it at least 5 days.

I agree that it's a good idea to pick a feeding frequency and go with that.

Good luck!

[lynn07]

Every time we've sleep trained (this last time was our third rodeo), we've ditched the swaddle at the same time. It will be hard for a couple of nights, but it did get better quickly. Also, I know it sucks to hear, but you are sending mixed messages if you are unswaddling then reswaddling, bring LO in to bed sometimes but not other times, etc. Consistency is key when it comes to sleep training. I also ditto the suggestion of setting a minimum amount of time that you go without feeding LO and then extending it from there. With DS3, we set the first time at 4hrs, because we knew he could go that long without nursing. Then I wouldn't feed him any sooner than 2 hrs after that. I increased both times by 15 mins pretty consistently until he was only waking once per night. But once he got the hang of falling back to sleep without nursing MOTN, it wasn't hard to get down to that once per night. GL!

[longtimenopost]

Sleepsuit unless he's rolling around while not swaddled (in which case, I'd go cold turkey to see if he is more comfortable rolling on his tummy and sleeping)

What is your bedtime routine? You need to make sure there is 20ish minutes between nursing and down for the night.

[mswax]

No advice...just commiseration from someone who had to cosleep for 6+ months 3 babies because SURVIVAL

[countthestars]

Mar 12, 2016 14:35:27 GMT -5 longtimenopost said:

Sleepsuit unless he's rolling around while not swaddled (in which case, I'd go cold turkey to see if he is more comfortable rolling on his tummy and sleeping)

What is your bedtime routine? You need to make sure there is 20ish minutes between nursing and down for the night.

this is a good point - I think I need to nurse earlier in the routine. Right now it is bath, jammies, book with DD, nurse, swaddle, bed. I think I am nursing too close to bedtime (H was hoping that doing it later would stuff him up so he slept longer). Maybe I will nurse before bath tonight and see if that helps keep him drowsy but more awake.

[elliemonster21]

Following. Good luck to you!!

[winecheery]

Consistency is key. You must remain consistent with whatever your plan is for this to have a shot at working. It sounds like it was going ok night one. It's not easy, but it sounds like he actually handled it really well overall?

I would not be personally STing with baby still swaddled, I think having the ability to find fingers to suck for comfort, or move around to a comfy position is key to allowing the baby the chance to self-soothe. We stopped swaddling arms at the same time we sleep trained DD at 4.5 months.

I also personally do not think you can accurately tell if this method is right for you if you are not doing it the same way every night. So, basically, back to keeping it all consistent. It's the only way to gauge if your DS is "doing it" or if he needs more time/a different method.

I'd sort of mentally start over, without the swaddle, and make a plan both you and your H will hold each other to.

Yes, I'm making this sound like a dramatic epic battle but...well...it kinda felt like one to me lol. H and I kept each other strong, and DD took to it fairly well over about 3 days. She still nursed once a night, and it took several weeks for her to go down without kind of bitching or fussing in protest (not hysterics) for 5 mins or less, but the first few nights were key to establishing the new normal.

Best of luck! However you proceed.

[Deleted]

Honestly, we couldn't handle it. We sleep trained at a year. We also stopped the swaddle long before that. I would focus on losing the swaddle at this point. Can baby roll?

[countthestars]

Mar 12, 2016 20:06:44 GMT -5 @astrid said:

Honestly, we couldn't handle it. We sleep trained at a year. We also stopped the swaddle long before that. I would focus on losing the swaddle at this point. Can baby roll?

he has done it a handful of times but not really. We are sleep suiting tonight and going to to give it another go. We will see!

[awkwardpenguin]

Your son sounds a lot like my DD. Sleep training was SO SO terrible and I came on here pretty much begging people to tell me to stop. In the end we gave ourselves three nights and if it didn't get better after night 3 I was going to quit. For us the first night was truly horrible and then things improved every night after that, but many people find the second night to be the worst.

I would give it another couple nights, and I would try the sleep suit. Sending hugs and wine.

[countthestars]

Mar 12, 2016 21:03:24 GMT -5 @starry said:

countthestars how is tonight going?

thanks for asking! At bedtime be cried for two minutes. After an hour he woke up coughing and it took 13 minutes to get back down so hopefully we are getting better?! At least H and I had a chance to talk it through more today while I could be more rational. I was driving him crazy last night blubbering about MY BAYBEE.

Look for me leading the MOTN thread again lol.