UVA student sentenced to 15 years hard labor in N Korea

[jeaniebueller]

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www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/16/north-korea-sentences-u-va-student-to-15-years-of-hard-labor-in-prison/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_mm-uva-130am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

SEOUL — The University of Virginia student being held in North Korea was sentenced Wednesday to 15 years of hard labor for trying to steal a propaganda sign from a hotel in Pyongyang.

Otto Warmbier, a 21-year-old from Cincinnati, Ohio, was convicted after a one-hour trial at North Korea’s Supreme Court, China’s Xinhua news agency, which has a bureau in Pyongyang, reported Wednesday. Japan’s Kyodo News and the Associated Press also reported the verdict. Diplomats from the Swedish Embassy in Pyongyang, which represents American interests in North Korea because the United States does not have diplomatic relations with the country, were present at the trial.

North Korea’s state media had not commented on the case by 2 p.m. local time.

Warmbier is being held at a particularly sensitive time, when annual military drills between the United States and South Korea are coinciding with international sanctions against North Korea’s regime to punish it for its recent nuclear test and missile launches.

North Korea always protests the joint military drills in South Korea because it sees them as a pretext for an invasion, but Pyongyang’s reaction is particularly ferocious this year because the allies are practicing “decapitation strikes” that target North Korea’s leadership and its nuclear and missile facilities.

Furthermore, the sanctions imposed by the United Nations, coupled with direct measures taken by the United States, Japan and South Korea, are the toughest yet and could inflict a significant amount of pain on the North Korean regime.

Warmbier, an economics major, was arrested at Pyongyang airport on Jan. 2, at the end of a five-day tour to North Korea. But it wasn’t until three weeks later that North Korean leader Kim Jong Un’s regime announced it was holding the student for an unspecified “hostile act” against the state.

[U-Va. student detained in N. Korea described as ‘buoyant,’ inspiring and driven]

At the end of February, during a highly orchestrated news conference in Pyongyang, the student confessed to a “very severe and pre-planned” crime.




Reading from handwritten notes, Warmbier said he tried to steal a political sign promoting “the [North] Korean people’s love for their system” from the hotel, according to the official Korean Central News Agency.

“The aim of my task was to harm the motivation and work ethic of the Korean people. This was a very foolish aim,” Warmbier told the mainly North Korean reporters. He was wearing a beige jacket with a shirt and tie, and he was clean shaven.

Previous Americans detained in North Korea also have been brought by authorities before the media to “confess” their crimes, with the detainees told what to say and the reporters told what to ask.

Analysts expect that Warmbier also was directed in this way to deliver the statement, in which the student said he was impressed by North Korea’s “humanitarian treatment of severe criminals like myself.”

Warmbier went on a trip organized by Young Pioneer Tours, one of a handful of travel companies that takes adventurous tourists into North Korea, while on his way to Hong Kong for a financial course for his U-Va. studies.

Several U.S. citizens have been held in Pyongyang in recent years, usually because of activities relating to Christianity, and also have been sentenced to hard labor.
North Korea tries to use them as bargaining chips and releases them after high-profile interventions that it can use for its domestic propaganda purposes, portraying the visits by officials as Americans coming to pay homage to North Korea.

Former president Bill Clinton went to Pyongyang to secure the release of journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee in 2009, while former president Jimmy Carter traveled to the North Korean capital the following year to collect Aijalon Gomes, a Boston man who entered the country illegally.

More recently, James R. Clapper Jr., the Director of National Intelligence, went to Pyongyang at the end of 2014 to free three Americans being held there.

One of them, Kenneth Bae, a Korean American missionary, had been sentenced to 15 years’ hard labor for “hostile acts against the republic,” including proselytizing and attempting to overthrow the regime. Bae’s sister described how he was having to do manual work on a farm for eight hours a day, six days a week.
Another, Matthew Miller from California, had been sentenced to six years’ hard labor after ripping up his tourist visa on arrival in North Korea.

At U-Va., Warmbier was selected as an Echols Scholar, a special four-year academic program for fewer than 250 students in each class. Those chosen are described as “intellectual risk-takers” who have shown “academic excellence, intellectual leadership, and evidence of the ability to grapple with complex topics,” according to the university’s website

[rupertpenny]

Don't fuck around in North Korea! I feel bad for this kid because no one deserves 15 years of hard labor, but how did he think this was going to go?

[ECB]

People need to understand that NORTH Korea doesn't play games! Don't go there and do stupid shit. Or even better, just don't go there!

[rupertpenny]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

[swank]

I feel bad for this kid but the whole time I am reading this my brain is saying "fucking Millenial."

[loira]

I guess he couldn't "grapple with the complex topic" of 'not stealing shit from North Korea'! Nobody deserves the punishment he received, but that was an incredibly stupid move on his part.

I have to say, I've been fascinated with North Korea ever since H and I went to the DMZ. I'd probably even consider taking one of those tours if it weren't for the fact that I refuse to give any money to that regime.

[chchchia]

I just cannot fathom why in the world someone in this day and age thinks they can fuck around with North Korea. Ugh.

[WOT?*]

Mar 16, 2016 8:35:32 GMT -5 chchchia said:

I just cannot fathom why in the world someone in this day and age thinks they can fuck around with North Korea. Ugh.

Because they don't bother listening to the news or reading up on current (or even distant) events. Just another protected, insulated kid whose mommy probably calls the university to discuss his grades.

[chchchia]

Mar 16, 2016 10:59:49 GMT -5 WOT?* said:

Mar 16, 2016 8:35:32 GMT -5 chchchia said:

I just cannot fathom why in the world someone in this day and age thinks they can fuck around with North Korea. Ugh.

Because they don't bother listening to the news or reading up on current (or even distant) events. Just another protected, insulated kid whose mommy probably calls the university to discuss his grades.

Sadly, I think you are 100% correct. 

[WanderingWinoZ]

I'd be fine if OBama spends zero political capital trying to get this kid freed. He's got real problems to solve..

[pixy0stix]

The only thing I'd feel bad about is if the kid actually didn't try to steal the sign and he still got 15 years.

[karinothing]

Mar 16, 2016 12:28:35 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

The only thing I'd feel bad about is if the kid actually didn't try to steal the sign and he still got 15 years.

THat is what I am thinking. NK makes up accusations all the time.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 16, 2016 12:39:49 GMT -5 Dig Ophelia said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:36:58 GMT -5 BirdGirl said:

That was written by the NK government though, right?

I don't know.  The line before that said that he was "reading from handwritten notes".  Whose handwritten notes?  The article makes it seem like they are Warmbier's own words.

Yeah, the NK government forced him to say the whole speech. They weren't his words/thoughts. It's pretty par for the course with them.

[nicbreeful]

I read about this a few weeks ago.. I think he said he did it because his church offered him a car to bring back a sign, which is why he did it in the first place. I'd need to google to double check.

[nicbreeful]

Found it.. CNN, so take that as you will.

www.cnn.com/2016/02/28/asia/north-korea-otto-warmbier/

He was offered a $10,000 used car to return with a sign showing how Communist and anti-Christian NK is.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 16, 2016 12:47:51 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Found it.. CNN, so take that as you will.

www.cnn.com/2016/02/28/asia/north-korea-otto-warmbier/

He was offered a $10,000 used car to return with a sign showing how Communist and anti-Christian NK is.

Well then, all my sympathy just flew out the window.

[underwaterrhymes]

I do feel bad for him. He was exceedingly stupid and I have no love for people who march into other countries thinking they can do whatever the fuck they want without consequences.

And I absolutely think there should be some.

But 15 years of hard labor is ridiculous. He's is 21 years old, which is old enough to know better, but still pretty young. Lord knows I made some ill advised decisions when I was that age.

[nicbreeful]

Mar 16, 2016 12:49:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:47:51 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Found it.. CNN, so take that as you will.

www.cnn.com/2016/02/28/asia/north-korea-otto-warmbier/

He was offered a $10,000 used car to return with a sign showing how Communist and anti-Christian NK is.

Well then, all my sympathy just flew out the window.

Yeah, apparently that one commandment about stealing doesn't apply when it's stealing from communists.

Why would a church even encourage that?

[chchchia]

Mar 16, 2016 12:53:06 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:49:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Well then, all my sympathy just flew out the window.

Yeah, apparently that one commandment about stealing doesn't apply when it's stealing from communists.

Why would a church even encourage that?

I *think* it was for a girl.

[underwaterrhymes]

Mar 16, 2016 12:53:06 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:49:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Well then, all my sympathy just flew out the window.

Yeah, apparently that one commandment about stealing doesn't apply when it's stealing from communists.

Why would a church even encourage that?

If you read the article, though, it doesn't sound like he's a member of the church. And they're also saying "the Z Society" (a group North Korea purports is connected to the CIA) told him to steal the sign and complete the mission.

To me, this sounds like North Korea took some pieces of a puzzle and made it into a grand mission.

I suspect this is a kid who thought it would be funny to steal a sign and was egged on by friends. I do not think he was promised a car. I do not think there was an official mission.

This is propoganda.

I mean, still, it's theft. And it's ignorance.

But I don't think it merits 15 years of hard labor.

[chchchia]

Mar 16, 2016 13:02:03 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:53:06 GMT -5 nicbreeful said:

Yeah, apparently that one commandment about stealing doesn't apply when it's stealing from communists.

Why would a church even encourage that?

If you read the article, though, it doesn't sound like he's a member of the church. And they're also saying "the Z Society" (a group North Korea purports is connected to the CIA) told him to steal the sign and complete the mission.

To me, this sounds like North Korea took some pieces of a puzzle and made it into a grand mission.

I suspect this is a kid who thought it would be funny to steal a sign and was egged on by friends. I do not think he was promised a car. I do not think there was an official mission.

This is propoganda.

I mean, still, it's theft. And it's ignorance.

But I don't think it merits 15 years of hard labor.

In a normal country, it would most likely be nothing.  He is lucky he does not lose his life over there.  Jong Un has killed his own blood for what seems like less.  To me, no matter what it is, you just have to be smarter about what the fuck you are doing and where the fuck you are doing it. 

[dottyblue]

Yeah, I don't believe the car thing for a minute. That came from a "North Korean official with direct knowledge of the case..." It's propoganda. They're making things up to convince the people of North Korea that the rest of the world is evil and depraved.

I still think this kid was dumb, if he did try to steal the sign, but I don't believe any of this.

Also, that second link? It reminded me why I don't go to CNN for news any longer. Heinous pop ups, video with obnoxious ads... nope.

[underwaterrhymes]

Mar 16, 2016 13:06:07 GMT -5 chchchia said:

Mar 16, 2016 13:02:03 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

If you read the article, though, it doesn't sound like he's a member of the church. And they're also saying "the Z Society" (a group North Korea purports is connected to the CIA) told him to steal the sign and complete the mission.

To me, this sounds like North Korea took some pieces of a puzzle and made it into a grand mission.

I suspect this is a kid who thought it would be funny to steal a sign and was egged on by friends. I do not think he was promised a car. I do not think there was an official mission.

This is propoganda.

I mean, still, it's theft. And it's ignorance.

But I don't think it merits 15 years of hard labor.

In a normal country, it would most likely be nothing.  He is lucky he does not lose his life over there.  Jong Un has killed his own blood for what seems like less.  To me, no matter what it is, you just have to be smarter about what the fuck you are doing and where the fuck you are doing it. 

I don't dispute this.

This is a fucked up regime. He was arrogant and stupid. And stupid games and stupid prizes and all of that.

However, I am going to put way more of the blame on a fucked up and cruel regime than I am on a 21-year old who absolutely should have known better.

[underwaterrhymes]

Also, think about it this way:

What if it was a North Korean kid who tore down the sign and was sentenced to hard labor?

He's a more sympathetic character, right? You would feel bad for him and we would probably have pages dedicated to how awful it must be to live there.

But his "crime" would be no different, even if the motivation might be.

This kid may be a giant douchebag. But I was sort of a douche at 21 (as I think many 21-year olds are) and I cannot fathom being told that because I ripped down a sign (and ultimately didn't even take it because it was too big) that I would not see my family, friends, or country until I was 36 years old.

That is absolutely inhumane, particularly since rape and executions happen every single day to women and men forced into hard labor in concentration camps in N. Korea.

[shopgirl07]

It blows my mind that people "don't have sympathy for him".

North Korea is just the worst of the worst. They throw entire families into their death camps to be systematically tortured and killed for no reason. This kid isn't coming out alive. And if he does, he'll never even be close to the same.

[iammalcolmx]

Mar 16, 2016 8:18:12 GMT -5 rupertpenny said:

Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Unless I see proof of mental illness I am here. Why do people Fuck with NK? Bill Clinton ain't coming for your ass.

[iammalcolmx]

Mar 16, 2016 12:28:35 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

The only thing I'd feel bad about is if the kid actually didn't try to steal the sign and he still got 15 years.

Yup I am here as well.

[sfy]

Mar 16, 2016 14:00:27 GMT -5 shopgirl07 said:

It blows my mind that people "don't have sympathy for him".

North Korea is just the worst of the worst. They throw entire families into their death camps to be systematically tortured and killed for no reason. This kid isn't coming out alive. And if he does, he'll never even be close to the same.

Most people forget how dumb 21 year olds are.   If I had to serve 6 months of hard labor for every colossally idiotic thing I did at 21, I'd still be somewhere right now today digging a ditch.  I am anti-millennial, anti-ugly Americans, anti-NK government, but I still think this is horrid.

[cayl]

Mar 16, 2016 13:20:47 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Also, think about it this way:

What if it was a North Korean kid who tore down the sign and was sentenced to hard labor?

He's a more sympathetic character, right? You would feel bad for him and we would probably have pages dedicated to how awful it must be to live there.

But his "crime" would be no different, even if the motivation might be.

This kid may be a giant douchebag. But I was sort of a douche at 21 (as I think many 21-year olds are) and I cannot fathom being told that because I ripped down a sign (and ultimately didn't even take it because it was too big) that I would not see my family, friends, or country until I was 36 years old.

That is absolutely inhumane, particularly since rape and executions happen every single day to women and men forced into hard labor in concentration camps in N. Korea.

Of course I would feel worse for the North Korean kid.  He was born into a Communist country where it's citizens are given little to no access to the outside world, many are poor, and their "news" is just government propaganda.  Yes, the North Korean kid would know the rules and know that stealing is bad, but the sympathy would be because it sucks to be in a country with such insane laws and punishments.

Meanwhile, you have this American kid who goes to another country - with no excuse of not knowing what the possible consequences could be except for he's ignorant because he chose not to inform himself - and tries to steal something, furthering the world view that Americans think they're better than everyone else and above the law.  It's like countries who treat women horribly - I feel absolutely awful about it, and will express sympathy and outrage every time I hear about it, but I'm not dumb enough (nor was I at 21) to go to the Middle East and pretend like I can say and do the same things that I do here. 

[MarmeeNoir]

I consider myself bloodthirsty compared to the rest you and I'm not a bleeding heart. I feel sympathy for this dude. He did a dumb shit thing. He's fucked for stealing something, but a sex offender registry is too much?