Fuck, this douche. Just fuck. And no matter the outrage he is still going to have this holier than thou attitude because he (believes he) loves babies more.
He loves babies more than parents who have hoped and prayed for nothing more than a healthy child. He loves babies more than couples who have tried countless times just to suffer gut wrenching miscarriages. And women should be ashamed at their heartlessness.
Just fuck him. Fuck his condescending, belittling, spiteful, fucking adshole douchecanoe face. Fuck
Mike Pence makes Mitch Daniels look like a rockstar.
I said that last week to a friend. We used to talk about Mitch Daniels and Richard Lugar being our favorites and now we long for the days they were the ones in office.
He's going to lose in November isn't he? Please say yes.
The last D governor was O'Bannon right? His daughter was my 4th grade teacher for a quarter. Wait, no, it was Kernan or whoever.
People are most upset with Pence concerning Education here in Indiana because he/the GOP pretty much took away all power to Glenda Ritz, who was elected as the Education Superintendent by a pretty large margin over the GOP candidate. So there is actually a good chance that he will lose the next election. I'm hopeful anyway.
my heart breaks to think of someone receiving devastating news at 20 weeks that their baby will not live, yet being forced to continue to remain pregnant and deliver that baby. What kind of world do we live in where people can think it's ok to torture a woman in that way.
Just to add, cremation and/or burial is NOT cheap. We were able to bury Bernadette due to family financial support. You know, since we also had a 4k deductible to meet for the miscarriage of our very wanted baby.
Mike Pence makes Mitch Daniels look like a rockstar.
I said that last week to a friend. We used to talk about Mitch Daniels and Richard Lugar being our favorites and now we long for the days they were the ones in office.
I voted in Indiana when I was in college out of state and got to vote for both of those men. I still have my My Man Mitch t-shirt. I know a lot of folks here weren't a fan of him. Even my aunt and uncle were divided on their feelings about him. But I liked what he was about, and my dad personally benefited from his election, so I'm a fan.
I don't see how anyone could be anti-Lugar (disagree with him, sure, but be against him generally, no). And I'm still so angry at his loss in the primary. That was the beginning of the end of the Republican Party for me.
Pence called the bill “a comprehensive pro-life measure that affirms the value of all human life.”
“I believe that a society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable — the aged, the infirm, the disabled and the unborn,” he said in a statement.
"Protecting" fetuses, including those who won't make it to birth? Sure. Helping refugees fleeing for their lives, and the lives of their children? HELL NO!
ETA - What's even more sad is that I know nothing about Mike Pence, but spent all of two minutes googling to find this because if there is one thing you can count on, it's that people who do shit like this don't actually value all lives. Thank you, Mike Pence, for not proving me wrong.
And you know what else KILLS me? That the miscarriage requirement got slapped on there just so it wouldn't look like it's just targeting abortions. "HEY! Let's include miscarriages, too...SEE?! You hysterical women? It doesn't just apply to abortions."
Pence called the bill “a comprehensive pro-life measure that affirms the value of all human life.”
“I believe that a society can be judged by how it deals with its most vulnerable — the aged, the infirm, the disabled and the unborn,” he said in a statement.
"Protecting" fetuses, including those who won't make it to birth? Sure. Helping refugees fleeing for their lives, and the lives of their children? HELL NO!
ETA - What's even more sad is that I know nothing about Mike Pence, but spent all of two minutes googling to find this because if there is one thing you can count on, it's that people who do shit like this don't actually value all lives. Thank you, Mike Pence, for not proving me wrong.
I noticed that he didn't include the poor in his list of vulnerable populations.
Just to add, cremation and/or burial is NOT cheap. We were able to bury Bernadette due to family financial support. You know, since we also had a 4k deductible to meet for the miscarriage of our very wanted baby.
These people have no true compassion for anyone.
I am very sorry for your loss.
Your point really gets to me too. What if a woman has a fetus with a fatal defect. The baby may be born alive, but will die shortly after. Instead of a (relatively) inexpensive procedure to terminate the pregnancy, this woman is now forced to deliver and pay all the associated bills of her delivery, hospital stay, and any treatment for the baby, plus funeral arrangements? I don't think this is a typical situation, but I don't think it's one in a million either. Talk about adding insult to injury.
Post by Miss Phryne Fisher on Mar 25, 2016 10:27:26 GMT -5
It is like these people see people with Down Syndrome and know that sometimes people terminate pregnancies with these babies. And they see happy productive folks with DS. And they think this is what all terminated for anomaly pregnancies are like...that baby with anencephaly will be serving you fries at McDonald's if his mom just gave him a chance. That incredibly wanted baby who is being cut in half by amniotic banding syndrome will be your friendly Walmart greeter, and that baby with no kidneys, well, she might grow up to be president!
Fuck each and every person who thinks this is a good idea.
It is like these people see people with Down Syndrome and know that sometimes people terminate pregnancies with these babies. And they see happy productive folks with DS. And they think this is what all terminated for anomaly pregnancies are like...that baby with anencephaly will be serving you fries at McDonald's if his mom just gave him a chance. That incredibly wanted baby who is being cut in half by amniotic banding syndrome will be your friendly Walmart greeter, and that baby with no kidneys, well, she might grow up to be president!
Fuck each and every person who thinks this is a good idea.
And keep in mind, that is best case for Down syndrome. Many T21 pregnancies don't even make it to viability. Others do, but have significant deformities and/or very diminished mental capacity. Despite the massive propaganda, the outcomes aren't good for most.
This information came as a shock to me, despite having two family friends who are "high functioning" with DS.
Legislation that pretends women just want to murder babies that will grow up to be like Corky is such a fucking disservice. It doesn't represent the incredible care burden of a child who is missing part of his esophagus. Or a man in his 40s with the capacity of a 3 year old. Who pays for that, you jackass? Who supports the family that has to provide constant care 24:7? DS also comes with a high incidence of early onset Alzheimer's.
I know I keep saying this but I'm seriously wondering where the public outrage is on this issue? The big marches and protests. Or maybe I didn't see the coverage? These bills keep getting passed.
I know I keep saying this but I'm seriously wondering where the public outrage is on this issue? The big marches and protests. Or maybe I didn't see the coverage? These bills keep getting passed.
Well if you were dumb enough like me to read the comments from news outlets posting on FB...
"Woman should keep their legs shut than they wouldn't need an abortion"
It was just comment after comment like that. It was gross. So gross.
I know I keep saying this but I'm seriously wondering where the public outrage is on this issue? The big marches and protests. Or maybe I didn't see the coverage? These bills keep getting passed.
Well if you were dumb enough like me to read the comments from news outlets posting on FB...
"Woman should keep their legs shut than they wouldn't need an abortion"
It was just comment after comment like that. It was gross. So gross.
VOMIT
My answer - okay, fine, no more sex from any woman. How about that, asshole?
I know I keep saying this but I'm seriously wondering where the public outrage is on this issue? The big marches and protests. Or maybe I didn't see the coverage? These bills keep getting passed.
Well if you were dumb enough like me to read the comments from news outlets posting on FB...
"Woman should keep their legs shut than they wouldn't need an abortion"
It was just comment after comment like that. It was gross. So gross.
VOMIT
Well, of course. Abortion is a slutty woman problem. Not a "the government limits my birth control options" problem or a "the Church wants me to have more children than I can reasonably care for" problem or a "I can't afford childcare and continue to work" problem or a "there aren't enough social services to help me with x disability my fetus has" problem or a "why in the fuck would I have a child when there's no decent school to send her to and no reasonable expectation that she will be treated like an equal to her male peers one day" problem. And certainly not a "stay the hell out of my uterus, America" problem!
I am trying in vain to explain to my mother (who is pro choice) why this is so awful. She says "I'd have never aborted a baby for DS." Congratulations. To you. I told her that I absolutely would. If H and I finally got a sticky baby with a DS diagnosis, I would absolutely terminate. She just gave me a blank stare. Then she says "well, what are you supposed to do with it after you terminate? Something has to be done." I told her it's medical waste. She made such a horrified face.
I realize that there are people who would not make the decision I would make and do not see a pregnancy that was lost or had to be terminated for fatal defects as medical waste and I really do respect that. I respect the right of everyone to deal with their loss in their own way, whether that loss is by circumstances beyond their control or by their own choice.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
I am trying in vain to explain to my mother (who is pro choice) why this is so awful. She says "I'd have never aborted a baby for DS." Congratulations. To you. I told her that I absolutely would. If H and I finally got a sticky baby with a DS diagnosis, I would absolutely terminate. She just gave me a blank stare. Then she says "well, what are you supposed to do with it after you terminate? Something has to be done." I told her it's medical waste. She made such a horrified face.
I realize that there are people who would not make the decision I would make and do not see a pregnancy that was lost or had to be terminated for fatal defects as medical waste and I really do respect that. I respect the right of everyone to deal with their loss in their own way, whether that loss is by circumstances beyond their control or by their own choice.
The better argument would be related to termination of a fetus with a condition that would involve extremely diminished physical and mental capabilities or one that would involve the death of the child shortly after being born. All the focus seems to be around Down Syndrome, but that's not the piece of this that bothers me. It's all the other conditions that would lead to a baby with zero quality of life.
Also, this law impacts women who have miscarriages of a wanted fetus. What about them? This makes that experience a hundred times more painful when the woman has to deal with the miscarriage, d&c, and arranging for the mass of cells from a 10-week old fetus to be cremated or buried. I mean what in the actual fuck!?
I would be curious to know what percentage of abortions are done because of a DS diagnosis. My guess would be that it is an incredibly small percentage.
I would really love for someone to school me on Roe v. Wade and why North Dakota has had a similar law to this one for the last 3 years. How is it constitutional in relation to the legalization of abortion and why has the ND law not been brought to the Supreme Court? When will this Indiana law be brought to the SC and are there situations where it wouldn't be?
I am trying in vain to explain to my mother (who is pro choice) why this is so awful. She says "I'd have never aborted a baby for DS." Congratulations. To you. I told her that I absolutely would. If H and I finally got a sticky baby with a DS diagnosis, I would absolutely terminate. She just gave me a blank stare. Then she says "well, what are you supposed to do with it after you terminate? Something has to be done." I told her it's medical waste. She made such a horrified face.
I realize that there are people who would not make the decision I would make and do not see a pregnancy that was lost or had to be terminated for fatal defects as medical waste and I really do respect that. I respect the right of everyone to deal with their loss in their own way, whether that loss is by circumstances beyond their control or by their own choice.
The better argument would be related to termination of a fetus with a condition that would involve extremely diminished physical and mental capabilities or one that would involve the death of the child shortly after being born. All the focus seems to be around Down Syndrome, but that's not the piece of this that bothers me. It's all the other conditions that would lead to a baby with zero quality of life.
Also, this law impacts women who have miscarriages of a wanted fetus. What about them? This makes that experience a hundred times more painful when the woman has to deal with the miscarriage, d&c, and arranging for the mass of cells from a 10-week old fetus to be cremated or buried. I mean what in the actual fuck!?
I would be curious to know what percentage of abortions are done because of a DS diagnosis. My guess would be that it is an incredibly small percentage.
I would really love for someone to school me on Roe v. Wade and why North Dakota has had a similar law to this one for the last 3 years. How is it constitutional in relation to the legalization of abortion and why has the ND law not been brought to the Supreme Court? When will this Indiana law be brought to the SC and are there situations where it wouldn't be?
Oh, I get it. But, I'm the girl who thinks that even if you have no medical reason for an abortion at 22 weeks you should still be able to get one. Without all the other BS to go with it.
I have not read anything about the ND law but if no one has brought a lawsuit against the state, then it would not be on a track to the Supreme Court. The only way any of these get to SCOTUS is when someone sues the state. Which is what happened in the TX one that was recently argued.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
The better argument would be related to termination of a fetus with a condition that would involve extremely diminished physical and mental capabilities or one that would involve the death of the child shortly after being born. All the focus seems to be around Down Syndrome, but that's not the piece of this that bothers me. It's all the other conditions that would lead to a baby with zero quality of life.
Also, this law impacts women who have miscarriages of a wanted fetus. What about them? This makes that experience a hundred times more painful when the woman has to deal with the miscarriage, d&c, and arranging for the mass of cells from a 10-week old fetus to be cremated or buried. I mean what in the actual fuck!?
I would be curious to know what percentage of abortions are done because of a DS diagnosis. My guess would be that it is an incredibly small percentage.
I would really love for someone to school me on Roe v. Wade and why North Dakota has had a similar law to this one for the last 3 years. How is it constitutional in relation to the legalization of abortion and why has the ND law not been brought to the Supreme Court? When will this Indiana law be brought to the SC and are there situations where it wouldn't be?
Oh, I get it. But, I'm the girl who thinks that even if you have no medical reason for an abortion at 22 weeks you should still be able to get one. Without all the other BS to go with it.
I have not read anything about the ND law but if no one has brought a lawsuit against the state, then it would not be on a track to the Supreme Court. The only way any of these get to SCOTUS is when someone sues the state. Which is what happened in the TX one that was recently argued.
In addition to agreeing with everything GP said, I would just like to add that I think DS is completely romanticized in the general public. There are many DS people who have completely wonderful quality of life and are able to be fairly independent and productive and then there are DS people like my friends daughter who was born with DS plus fifteen thousand congenital heart defects, a liver defect, and a missing kidney. Spent two months in the hospital before being discharged home where she lived for four months before dying of pneumonia. I make no judgments about whether some people might consider that a life with inherent value worth protecting TO THEM. But I also make no judgments about someone who says, "Hey, my H works at a grocery store and I'm a nurse with a 3 year old already and this is not a equation with a positive value for me and my family."
This Indiana law is grotesque and I should note that one of the two dominant health systems here actively lobbied AGAINST this legislation. The only people who think this is a good idea are the religious extremists who presently comprise our state government.
Oh, I get it. But, I'm the girl who thinks that even if you have no medical reason for an abortion at 22 weeks you should still be able to get one. Without all the other BS to go with it.
I have not read anything about the ND law but if no one has brought a lawsuit against the state, then it would not be on a track to the Supreme Court. The only way any of these get to SCOTUS is when someone sues the state. Which is what happened in the TX one that was recently argued.
In addition to agreeing with everything GP said, I would just like to add that I think DS is completely romanticized in the general public. There are many DS people who have completely wonderful quality of life and are able to be fairly independent and productive and then there are DS people like my friends daughter who was born with DS plus fifteen thousand congenital heart defects, a liver defect, and a missing kidney. Spent two months in the hospital before being discharged home where she lived for four months before dying of pneumonia. I make no judgments about whether some people might consider that a life with inherent value worth protecting TO THEM. But I also make no judgments about someone who says, "Hey, my H works at a grocery store and I'm a nurse with a 3 year old already and this is not a equation with a positive value for me and my family."
This Indiana law is grotesque and I should note that one of the two dominant health systems here actively lobbied AGAINST this legislation. The only people who think this is a good idea are the religious extremists who presently comprise our state government.
"Not gonna lie; I kind of keep expecting you to post one day that you threw down on someone who clearly had no idea that today was NOT THEIR DAY." ~dontcallmeshirley
Post by centralsquare on Mar 27, 2016 18:24:16 GMT -5
asdfjkl, thank you for sharing that. I started a similar reply yesterday and went to get the statistics make sure I was correct on my numbers, but it led me down an unpleasant path. This is almost 2 years to the day we terminated for trisomy 21, and oddly, it's hitting me a bit harder this year. I think because of this law. It's so fucking painful to get that diagnosis. I was in an incredibly supportive hospital where there was no judgment and no question about our decision. I cannot fathom being treated this law will allow.
When we got the diagnosis, most of what we found online as propaganda. All happy success stories. When we waded through it and found the secret message boards (which are forced to monitor and ban trolls multiple times a day, who come on to tell you you're a murderer, etc), we also found studies that have more statistics. Like how many T21/DS pregnancies abort spontaneously or end in very premature delivery. Something like 80% don't even make it to birth, and there is a whole range of problems for those who do.
It's so fucking cruel to force a woman, her partner, her family, and that child to roll the dice and hope you get the high-functioning ending. We knew at 12w that there were several physical markers present; when they're seen that early, it means you aren't in a best case scenario. Good friends of ours have a son who wasn't diagnosed till three months old. He has a chance for some kind of life and minimal health problems, but that is no the norm.
And we haven't even talked about the mental anguish. I cannot imagine wading through the extra unnecessary suffering because of this legislation.
I'm gonna go hold my "rainbow" baby girl extra right now. We are so lucky to have gotten through the pain and loss and have her to celebrate on the other side. The pain/sadness isn't completely gone, but it's morphed into a pain for all women who aren't as lucky as we were.