Indiana Governor Signs Fetal Defect Abortion Ban Into Law

[centralsquare]

Sorry. I didn't mean to turn this into my own personal therapy sesh.

[KateAggie]

Mar 27, 2016 18:47:00 GMT -5 centralsquare said:

Sorry. I didn't mean to turn this into my own personal therapy sesh.

I appreciate you sharing.

[isabel]

centralsquare, I am very sorry for your loss. You are exactly the kind of person I think about when I consider how awful this bill is. Thank you for sharing your story.

There is so much more to it that the media is not touching on. We have lawmakers who think they are smarter than doctors making laws that impact the medical decisions of women. It's sickening.

[earlgreyhot]

Thanks for sharing centralsquare

I also think of how public a pregnancy is. Well-meaning people are all the time asking about due date, sex, names, etc. It's one thing to chose a path, a whole other to be forced to endure it knowing there are options offered to women in other states.

[asdfjkl]

Mar 27, 2016 18:47:00 GMT -5 centralsquare said:

Sorry. I didn't mean to turn this into my own personal therapy sesh.

I'm really glad you felt comfortable sharing here.  I know that these thoughts are not always well received and it can be hard to explain the incredible nuance of being faced with an "extraordinary" child.  There aren't many "safe places" to discuss this. Of course, laws like the IN law certainly don't help that.  

When this law was still making it through the legislation process, one of the nurse ethicists I work with lost her damn mind just over who was going to be expected to pay for these kids.  She worked for years and years in a NICU and was like, this is millions and millions and millions of dollars that will be spent on these people and lost productivity to (let's be honest) their mothers.  Who's paying for that? Is Pence fucking paying for that? That spectacular fucking piece of shit - is he going to set up some state-funded high-needs medically staffed day cares so that women don't have to become the round the clock care takers that they end up being when a child who requires 24 hour ventilatory support and has no swallow reflex comes into this world?

I would guess that this law lacks majority support in "Hoosiers" but that, once again, elections matter and when you have voter turn out of under 30%, this is what happens.  

[asdfjkl]

Mar 27, 2016 22:41:00 GMT -5 earlgreyhot said:

Thanks for sharing centralsquare

I also think of how public a pregnancy is. Well-meaning people are all the time asking about due date, sex, names, etc. It's one thing to chose a path, a whole other to be forced to endure it knowing there are options offered to women in other states.

This is something my husband has talked about. In residency, he had a patient who was pregnant with a baby that had IIRC only 2 of the 4 heart chambers. So there was no structural way to circulate blood to the lungs to be oxygenated which didn't matter during pregnancy, but would cause an extremely traumatizing death immediately upon birth.  She was on Medicaid, so because of the Hyde Amendment could not get a therapeutic abortion because she couldn't afford to pay for it out of pocket and Medicaid wouldn't cover it because her health and life were perfectly fine (physically, I guess).  She was due just after Christmas so had to carry the baby through all the holiday festivities, the parties, the santas at the mall, all the well-meaning strangers suggesting she was probably having an especially merry christmas this year (nope!). And then she delivered her baby and it died.  

Nice work, pro-life.  #NailedIt.

[downtoearth]

Mar 24, 2016 19:55:23 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Mar 24, 2016 18:33:43 GMT -5 katietornado said:

So is this going to pass the "undue burden" test? Because I can't see how it would.

I think it would.  

How do you think it would? Is it because it is putting the burden on the provider (either with a D&C at the hospital or through an abortion provider)?  How do you even enforce a ban on fetal genetic abnormalities abortions? And could the police (or who?) come after someone who does a medical abortion at home and flushes the fetal tissue away? 

[NewOrleans]

Mar 28, 2016 14:36:25 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

Mar 24, 2016 19:55:23 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

I think it would.  

How do you think it would?   

well, the undue burden standard says that if the "purpose or effect [of the law] is to place a substantial obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an abortion before the fetus attains viability," it's an undue burden.  Since the 20-week bans-- which is before the medical consensus of viability-- have held, there is no reason to think that this wouldn't hold.

[downtoearth]

Mar 28, 2016 15:10:53 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Mar 28, 2016 14:36:25 GMT -5 downtoearth said:

How do you think it would?   

well, the undue burden standard says that if the "purpose or effect [of the law] is to place a substantial obstacle in the path of a woman seeking an abortion before the fetus attains viability," it's an undue burden.  Since the 20-week bans-- which is before the medical consensus of viability-- have held, there is no reason to think that this wouldn't hold.

How many TRAP laws can a f-ing state pass before the burden becomes "undue!" I mean, what other medical procedure has any law associated with it except maybe assisted suicide? 

I'm about ready to start some grassroots ish on TRADPP (Targeted Regulation of All State Death Penalty Providers) and make state legislators in any State case where there is a request for the death penalty have to sit through a waiting period of 6 days, an examine to make sure they are of sound mind/body, a requirement that they have to listen to the birth story of the person sentenced as they hear the heartbeat of that person, then they will have to listen to a pre-recorded script with bold lies about how using the death penalty causes breast/testicular cancer or higher risk of legislator suicide rates, along with a signed statement that they are "choosing to end a life and damage the sanctity of life in doing so."