I wasn't feeling the Bern to begin with but he'd raise our taxes $30,000. Ha ha ha. No.
HRC keeps it about the same - I'd be happy to pay a bit more even than what she is proposing and I'm assuming that that is a best case scenario and in reality we will pay more.
And I will happily forgo the $20k and $26k reductions to our taxes to also forgo a Trump or Cruz presidency.
Under Cruz, we'd pay $16,170 less and under Sanders, we'd pay $22,560 more. With Hillary, we'd only owe a few hundred more. I'd always be willing to pay more for more and improved human services. $22k would kick our asses though, quite frankly.
I'm not sure I get it though. I skimmed the tax policy thing because I was surprised at the huge jump under Bernie for us.
It said that he'd cap regular income tax at 28% and then introduce surcharges after 200k or 250k for a couple. Then a 2.2% tax for health insurance and a 0.2% payroll tax (I think this one is for paid leave).
Anyway, since we don't make more than 200k, never mind 250k I don't see why it's giving me a 38% tax rate.
They updated with a note on their methodology.
oh ok, I see now - they are adding the entire employer payroll tax to us under the assumption that we would pay it because our wages would be lowered. This explains the discrepancy.
Post by spaghettisquash on Mar 25, 2016 10:52:24 GMT -5
Sanders would say that the increase in your taxes is offset by the fact you don't have to pay health insurance premiums anymore. So for instance, my taxes will rise $20K under Bernie but I won't pay roughly $9K in premiums yearly. He's silent on whether we would still pay co-pays and deductibles.
He believes that this will be beneficial to middle and lower income workers. What he doesn't realize is that the employer exclusion for health care will disappear and employers will have to pay the new payroll tax, which will be passed on in the form of lower wages to employees(though if employers pay more than 6.2% in premiums, they may be able to pass on some of the savings to employees through higher wages). That impacts the calculus for middle income taxpayers. He also neglects to mention that if you get medicaid, you do not pay a federal premium (states may require co-pays or deductibles) and you most likely receive some refundable credits that offset any owed tax. Under his proposed plan, low income workers will pay for their health care through the payroll taxes- there's currently no exclusions proposed here.
Another important consideration of the Vox analysis is that it does not include the increases on capital income (which will hit wealthier taxpayers harder) nor does it include the FTT, which will fund free public colleges. The FTT, if implemented as he currently states, will hit the middle class particularly hard.
trump and Cruz ~7k less Clinton $100 more Sanders $16k more
Big fat LOL on that. I wonder if voters have actually done the calculations themselves. I did a rough estimate a while back but to actually see the numbers side by side is crazy!!
FWIW, I wouldn't even mind paying an extra $2k in taxes if it means I was actually getting free or heavily subsidized health insurance and no longer had to worry about saving for my kids' college.
But I also don't believe for one second those things would happen anytime in the next 8 years.
This exactly. I'll happily pay thousands more in taxes if I actually get benefit from it, but there's no way in the world that's going to happen with our current political climate. He's so fucking unrealistic.
Another important consideration of the Vox analysis is that it does not include the increases on capital income (which will hit wealthier taxpayers harder) nor does it include the FTT, which will fund free public colleges. The FTT, if implemented as he currently states, will hit the middle class particularly hard.
ehrmerhgerhd, it doesn't include his free college plan?
Deep, cleansing breath - even if Bernie is elected no sane Congress is going to pass any of these tax hikes. First you have the Republicans who've all kissed the ring of Grover Norquist, then you have Dems who will get creamed in their next election if they hike taxes this much. Yeah for divided government!
Another important consideration of the Vox analysis is that it does not include the increases on capital income (which will hit wealthier taxpayers harder) nor does it include the FTT, which will fund free public colleges. The FTT, if implemented as he currently states, will hit the middle class particularly hard.
Wut? So my $14K would only be for healthcare that I currently pay about $6K a year for now? Jesus, no wonder he doesn't want to share any actual plans!
Yeah sorry, maybe it makes me a complete asshole but I'm not so sure about paying $22,560 more a year in taxes, especially now that we're adding a kid to the mix and that goes double if that's only for healthcare, which may or may not include premiums or copays. Obviously we could handle it but we'd definitely feel the pinch.
We'd be fucked under Bernie. It's like he has a personal vendetta against me.
Plus we only pay ~$4000 in premiums a year and my husband's employer pays the rest. We have very good insurance, so it's not like the increase would be offset by losing those costs.
Under HRC, we pay a few hundred dollars more, which is NBD. We get big cuts under the other two clowns but MH would probably lose his job when they shut down the department of energy or put Sarah Palin in charge of it. So...lol.
Post by jojoandleo on Mar 25, 2016 11:39:02 GMT -5
Ok, Bernie would increase my taxes (JUST my income) by 7K. Like, that is all the money I have that doesn't go to bills/gas/food. My employer pays for healthcare and my deductible is $1,000. I mean, I have 0 beliefs my employer will forward what it is paying for healthcare to me as income. BUT, even if it DID, wouldn't THAT then get taxed too? So I would take home, maybe 50% of that? That cannot offset that $7,000.
Another important consideration of the Vox analysis is that it does not include the increases on capital income (which will hit wealthier taxpayers harder) nor does it include the FTT, which will fund free public colleges. The FTT, if implemented as he currently states, will hit the middle class particularly hard.
ehrmerhgerhd, it doesn't include his free college plan?
The Vox analysis includes some excise taxes which the FTT is listed under on TPC's policy analysis on Sanders' tax plan. However, it's not clear how they are figuring out the impact on each individual taxpayer as the FTT is inherently speculative and there's no way to apply it towards each individual. The FTT is the only funding mechanism mentioned to pay for public college tuition. When I ran the numbers a few weeks ago under his tax plan, my increase was the same without any of the excise credits factored in.
We'd be fucked under Bernie. It's like he has a personal vendetta against me.
Right? I played around with it, wondering what difference it would make if our hhi was $20,000 less, and we're still paying $21,990, so a negligible difference from $22,560. Not okay Bernie, not okay.
If all the things Bernie's promising were in place *before* I started paying the extra $14K, I'd be okay with it.
I'm not really against the extra $14-$15k that Bernie's plan would impose if it came with everything he promised, but I am not sure we would be ready to do this. It basically stops us for saving a dime right now. We would have to change our lifestyles pretty drastically to do this in the next couple years and so I like the idea of a slower change and implementation. We don't have significant student loan debt, but we do own two houses and have a car payment along with childcare for 1 all year and 3 during the summer. Oh and our health expenses are pretty minimal, so I doubt it would "save" us money there. I think we spent about $1500 on out of pocket expenses and about $2400 on health insurance (after company coverage), so that is only $3,900 of the $14,000 that we would be increased.
And people think Bernie could win the general. Yeah, I am sure everyone will be rushing out to vote for him when they find out much their taxes might go up.
Post by mominatrix on Mar 25, 2016 12:14:40 GMT -5
How your tax liability changes under... TRUMP Yuuuge tax cuts, without explicit offsetting spending cuts. Pay $5,800 less (Tax rate: 18.5%)
CRUZ For most, 10% flat rate on income tax and 16% value-added tax. Pay $3,670 less (Tax rate: 20.4%)
CLINTON Taxes stay about the same. Pay $90 more (Tax rate: 23.6%)
SANDERS Big tax increases, mostly on the rich, to pay for big programs. Pay $15,480 more (Tax rate: 37%)
This would literally break us. We walk a very fine line financially, and there's nowhere in our budget to find $1000+ a month. Nowhere. H's employer pays 100% of our health insurance premiums; we pay copays etc, but they do a big contribution to our FSA to offset those costs.
Honestly, if we had to pay $15K more a year in taxes, we'd have to move out of our house (and take a huge hit in the process, as it's currently torn apart for renovations) and move to a lower COA area. Which means increasing H's commute to an hour or more each way... with all the financial and emotional costs that would entail.
Post by Velvetshady on Mar 25, 2016 12:34:55 GMT -5
Trump Yuuuge tax cuts, without explicit offsetting spending cuts. Pay $14,400 less (Tax rate: 22.7%)
Cruz For most, 10% flat rate on income tax and 16% value-added tax. Pay $21,990 less (Tax rate: 19.1%)
Clinton Taxes stay about the same. Pay $490 more (Tax rate: 29.7%)
Sanders Big tax increases, mostly on the rich, to pay for big programs. Pay $19,730 more (Tax rate: 38.8%)
Crap, I almost have to vote for Cruz now Well, if I didn't comprehend that Presidents aren't dictators that get to single-handedly change our tax code.
We'd be fucked under Bernie. It's like he has a personal vendetta against me.
Plus we only pay ~$4000 in premiums a year and my husband's employer pays the rest. We have very good insurance, so it's not like the increase would be offset by losing those costs.
Under HRC, we pay a few hundred dollars more, which is NBD. We get big cuts under the other two clowns but MH would probably lose his job when they shut down the department of energy or put Sarah Palin in charge of it. So...lol.
Yeah my H works for one of those tree-hugging agencies. He'd be axed!
How your tax liability changes under... TRUMP Yuuuge tax cuts, without explicit offsetting spending cuts. Pay $5,800 less (Tax rate: 18.5%)
CRUZ For most, 10% flat rate on income tax and 16% value-added tax. Pay $3,670 less (Tax rate: 20.4%)
CLINTON Taxes stay about the same. Pay $90 more (Tax rate: 23.6%)
SANDERS Big tax increases, mostly on the rich, to pay for big programs. Pay $15,480 more (Tax rate: 37%)
This would literally break us. We walk a very fine line financially, and there's nowhere in our budget to find $1000+ a month. Nowhere. H's employer pays 100% of our health insurance premiums; we pay copays etc, but they do a big contribution to our FSA to offset those costs.
Honestly, if we had to pay $15K more a year in taxes, we'd have to move out of our house (and take a huge hit in the process, as it's currently torn apart for renovations) and move to a lower COA area. Which means increasing H's commute to an hour or more each way... with all the financial and emotional costs that would entail.
Yeah. That would work out great for us.
Us, too. We're looking around to see where we can cut 20, 40, 100 bucks from our expenses. There isn't an extra grand anywhere.
That's a yuge increase under Sanders. Way more than we'd save on insurance premiums and student loans (we paid those off already).
But, the federal tax on the status quo also is higher than we pay, and I tried both gross and adjusted income, so who knows what else is being assumed here.