WDYT? Should we "hunt down" invisible spouses?

[basilosaurus]

This link was sent out by our FRG, I think mostly as a reminder of our resources. But I read the story, and thought it might generate discussion here. It's about that woman with the 3 children we discussed recently.

spousebuzz.com/blog/2012/09/do-we-have-a-responsibility-to-invisible-spouses.html

It's a long post, and a lot of it is recapping the story, which we all know. I'll just C&P a part that talks about if we have a responsibility to "hunt down" spouses who want to remain individual. People like me

Even though Tiffany complained in this report that “nobody took a second to ask me if there was anything they could do to help or if I needed anything and I wish they would have,” it’s certainly possible that she had asked not to be contacted by her unit’s family support group and now regrets (or doesn’t remember) that request. Tiffany probably wasn’t the type to show up at family group meetings, either. Anyone that afflicted probably did not sign up for or read the unit emails (if they had them), so she probably didn’t know about the vast bevy of resources available to help her with her children or give her mental support.

Whether by choice or by happenstance, Tiffany Klapheke became invisible. So did her children.

Military families value their privacy. In a past age being a military spouse meant living on base and knowing all the business of every person in a 10 mile radius. But these days we have the privilege, if we so choose, of being invisible by living off base or ignoring unit functions.

Yet I wonder if we – the military community – still have a responsibility to hunt these people down and hold them up?

I don’t know how we could make that work. I don’t know how to find the invisible spouses of my unit if they don’t want to be found. I keep returning again and again to the question: Do we military families still owe something to each other? Or are our military resources good enough already? What else could possibly be done to prevent the very few invisible babies of our world from slipping through the cracks created by their own parents?

[basilosaurus]

My thoughts:

I'd really not appreciate it if someone sought me out despite my wishes to not be involved. So I wouldn't want this to turn into an inability to remove myself from FRG life.

However, I think there's something they could do better to prevent this type of situation. I think assessing to make sure that someone has alternate resources who watch out for you can be part of the decision on how invisible you "allow" people to be.

For instance, here, I don't need anyone calling and checking up on me because I have a robust social support system, none of which is military. They would notice and be proactive if I needed help. I'm also an active member of a couple groups who would notice either a change in me or an absence.

However, I've been in locations where I socialize once a month or less, so if H were gone, no one would really notice me. Personally, I'm ok with that, and I am proactive about seeking help, but I wouldn't be bothered if there were some kind of check to make sure I truly was ok since that situation is ripe for going bad.

A simple questionaire that assessed how robust people's non-military support is, whether it's friends, a hobby group, a religious community, whatever, and if it's strong, leave them alone. But in its absence, don't let someone go completely off the grid.

[NomadicMama]

I wish it weren't 1:43am here so I had more time to respond.

I recently went to ACS to seek out help for LO and me (he's mad a Daddy for deploying). A woman who works for ACS came out to the lobby and we talked briefly. Her response was that he'll get over it.

WTF?

I am much less apt to go ask for support now because of that woman's flippant remark. And I'm not in "bad" shape, especially considering the situation in TX.

As intrusive as it might feel, I wonder if spouses need to be evaluated as part of a service member's readiness to deploy. A questionnaire is an option. Something that shows that thought has been given to some kind of suppor plan.

And with that, my kid is awake and I have to go. I'll be back at some point tomorrow. . .

[basilosaurus]

Sept 4, 2012 18:49:35 GMT -5 NomadicMama said:

I wish it weren't 1:43am here so I had more time to respond.

Don't worry, with how slow this board is, it will still be here next week

I would agree that addressing the quality of services is another important factor. I (generic) may be unlikely to use resources if I feel they don't do anything for me.

[MrsAggie]

I honestly don't know what the answer is. I don't think the questionnaire is a bad idea. What would be the response if they didn't have support? I all but begged for information from our FRG during H's deployment. I lived 2 hours away and felt very isolated from all military-related support. I was in nursing school and always surrounded by friends but TBH, they just didn't understand. I usually kept all the stress bottled up until I ended up in some screaming match that ended with me bawling or until I ended up in the hospital on anxiety meds. I'm probably not the best person to give deployment support suggestions.

[beachy]

Personally I think this falls a lot on the SM too. I'm not blaming this woman's H for it at all, but I think in general the "invisible spouse" falls on the SM. In our command we have the major problem of SM's not passing the information on to their spouses about the FRG and Ombudsmen, and/or not allowing the groups to give them information. Many SM's only think of the stigma associated with the FRG and "military wives" and want their wives, and sometimes tell their wives, to stay far away from it. These are often the same SM's that leave for deployment and don't leave their spouse or family member any contact information, or even any information about their department, division, rate and rank, etc.

I know it is different for each command, and it's easier to reach out to spouses in smaller commands, but I know it would be near impossible to reach out to the invisible spouses in our command of over 3,000. The command relies on the sailor to pass the FRG and Ombudsmen info to their spouse. Personally I don't think there would be any way for us to track down the invisible spouses since they are all over the country.

[audette]

I think that the FRG has a responsibility to reach out to all spouses, and at least make contact, and repeat that contact periodically (ie: once/month ish, maybe less often when the servicemembers are in garrison). And the FRG should be proactive in staying in contact with spouses, and making sure they are able to reach them.

I don't really equate that reaching out to be the same as "hunting down" spouses. One is a "hey, hi, we're here if you need anything", and the other is "you _need_ to come out and meet people and do stuff and join in yet another activity associated with your spouse's career".

Arranging events and info sessions and connecting people with services they are interested in is something else the FRG should work on doing, but only when folks are interested in doing this.


While the instance that brought about that thread is a tragic situation, I'm not sure that hunting down the spouses that have chosen to not be involved is really the answer to avoiding future instances.

[basilosaurus]

You know, I missed that she was an AF spouse. It works differently than army. There's no FRG, no paid full time position to coordinate it all. The amount of involvement is basically up to each commander's spouse. Sometimes they're married with full time jobs and only schedule a social 3 times a year.

So I don't really know how they can be more proactive with such an unofficial group. I know if H ever makes it to that level, I'm not going to be open to someone telling me I have to take on a full time unpaid job of handling the other spouses, not if I have my own full time job.

[ggirl]

I don't know what the answer is, but I don't know how well the FRG reaches out all the time. I've been married for a year and I have had other friends get married within the past year (h's are all in the same squadron). I can tell you that none of us have heard from the FRG. I know the FRO asked my H for my email once but he was busy at the time with doing other paper work and told her he'd give it to her later. This was right after we got married. That was the last time. They've gone on dets since then and still nothing. I know I could reach out, but if I was shy or didn't know where to turn it would be hard and I could see someone being afraid to do so.

Now, for me, it doesn't bother me since I have a good support group of friends here already and have established a life for myself, but I can see how it could affect other people.

I think a questionnaire would be a start at least to at least give people a chance to voice concerns etc.

[flycatcher]

Leave me alone! lol. During this deployment I've been contacted by the key spouse several times, after saying I didn't need to be checked up on. I've let all her recent calls goes to voicemail.

I'm a somewhat antisocial person, at least when I choose to be. I don't like people calling me to chat, check on me or anything else. If I was lonely, depressed, etc. I wouldn't tell a complete stranger (one I've never met, or been told about) over the phone.

The situation is horrible. Resources need to be made known, and I was made aware of my resources-I went to a meeting and got a packet! Hunting people down seems so invasive to me, and that's mostly based on my experience. I am sure some people appreciate the outreach.

[audette]

Sept 4, 2012 19:35:03 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

You know, I missed that she was an AF spouse. It works differently than army. There's no FRG, no paid full time position to coordinate it all. The amount of involvement is basically up to each commander's spouse. Sometimes they're married with full time jobs and only schedule a social 3 times a year.

So I don't really know how they can be more proactive with such an unofficial group. I know if H ever makes it to that level, I'm not going to be open to someone telling me I have to take on a full time unpaid job of handling the other spouses, not if I have my own full time job.

Agreement here - I think it's the world's dumbest idea to have the responsibilities of the FRG being done by volunteers. The FRSA is a good start, but it's not enough to do everything the FRG is expected to do.

If the military wants something like an FRG around (and, I would argue it's a useful thing, when it works properly), it really needs to designate resources to managing it well, and not leave it up to unpaid volunteers that can't be held accountable.

[basilosaurus]

Hell, they're not really volunteers. They're voluntold simply because of who they married. So they may also be unwilling or unable.

I'll agree with flycatcher that if I say I don't want to be contacted, leave me alone. Thankfully, other than the tons of emails, I don't think they know I exist. I've never been called, never met anyone, and I'm a-ok with that.

But I think screening for who and how often to contact could work out. I'm starting to think it's ok to ignore a spouse's request if you're worried they might be stuck on their own. And you all know how loathe I am to accept military involvement in my life! I don't mean forcing anyone to attend anything, but a monthly phone contact or something.

[verycontrary247]

Sept 4, 2012 19:12:59 GMT -5 beachy said:

In our command we have the major problem of SM's not passing the information on to their spouses about the FRG and Ombudsmen, and/or not allowing the groups to give them information.

This. I'm in the FRG presidency and half the time I'm out of the loop as to what's going on regarding the ship because H doesn't tell me anything and the command is very stingy with the info they let out in an official capacity.

[pennylane]

My H's squadron is in the process of filling the board of the FRG, and you had to go interview with the CO & CMC. As first I was like, oh maybe I could help out-but there is no way I'm waltzing into the CO's office to be interviewed for a volunteer gig. In our case, the sailors are given the email address and the family/spouse is responsible for contacting them if they want added to the email/phone list. I think a lot of people not participating has to do with not getting the info passed along. It also doesn't help that I hear a lot of people refer to it as the "Knives Club".

I don't know, I think the military already goes above and beyond getting involved in people's personal lives in comparison to most other workplaces. At a certain point, it becomes an individuals responsibility to help themselves. This isn't a military issue, it's a entire world issue.

[brandienee]

Sept 4, 2012 21:14:50 GMT -5 pennylane said:

I don't know, I think the military already goes above and beyond getting involved in people's personal lives in comparison to most other workplaces. At a certain point, it becomes an individuals responsibility to help themselves. This isn't a military issue, it's a entire world issue.

I agree with this.

[nsl]

Our situation is a bit atypical because H is Medical Corps and doesn't deploy from his home unit. His hospital has a separate FRG that essentially exists solely to provide the kind of support to spouses of deployed doctors and nurses at his MTF that would have made a world of difference for the woman in the article. Every month H was gone, without fail, I got a phone call from the FRG leader just to check in and make sure I was okay. Even though I said at the beginning that I was fine and had a good local support group (which I did) and couldn't attend meetings what with a full-time job and two young children, she still called to check in with me. If I'd needed more support, the MTF FRG would have been there.

On the flip side, the FRG for the unit H deployed with (which was based in Hawaii--we're in Texas) didn't lift a finger to contact me, and never responded to my e-mails and calls. I had to rely solely on H for information about what was going on. I was effectively abandoned by them, mostly I think because I wasn't local.

All of which is to say that I agree with just about everyone that there are major, major problems with the FRG system. I think of all the posts back on the Nest/Bump from women who are having babies when their husbands are deployed and wonder how many more don't even know as much as those ladies because they don't know about message boards and don't have an FRG or other local support available. No wonder so many choose to move home. Then there are the husbands who I think are the really invisible spouses since so many FRG-related events are geared towards women's interests. How many of them even realize the resources (even limited) available to give them a hand while their wives are deployed?

We talk a lot about evaluating a service member's mental and physical health during and after a deployment, but it can be really traumatic (though in a completely different way) for a spouse too. The FRG is basically all a lot of us have during that time, and it's not set up to handle that level of responsibility as things stand.

[nsl]

Sept 4, 2012 21:33:41 GMT -5 brandienee said:

Sept 4, 2012 21:14:50 GMT -5 pennylane said:

I don't know, I think the military already goes above and beyond getting involved in people's personal lives in comparison to most other workplaces. At a certain point, it becomes an individuals responsibility to help themselves. This isn't a military issue, it's a entire world issue.

I agree with this.

To a point, I also agree, but the military really isn't like "other workplaces" when you're talking about deployments. The problem isn't that FRGs exist, it's that they by and large aren't organized in a way that will be helpful for husbands and wives who experience a crisis while their spouse is in a war zone.

[amaristella]

Do we military families still owe something to each other? Or are our military resources good enough already? What else could possibly be done to prevent the very few invisible babies of our world from slipping through the cracks created by their own parents?

Bottom line, I agree with Beachy that a certain amount of the responsibility lies with the sponsor. If a sailor doesn't fill out the contact form or fills it out incorrectly and then is very reserved at work and never talks about his family and any concerns he might have, how will anybody know that the problems exist?

I also agree with Pennylane that we as individuals should look out for our fellow human beings. But there's really only so much we can do.

Aside from mandatory wellness checks and home inspections whenever it is known that there are minors in the picture I don't know what else can be done.

[amaristella]

Okay, I was reading down into the comments on the article, and part of one of them really struck me.

"So while its easy to place blame let’s put some on the units who are making these men feel they can’t ask for help or support."

THIS has been a problem on DH's boat from the lowest ranking guy on up to officers. Guys are afraid to even ask for time off for things like their firstborn's baptism or their brother's wedding. Like, they won't even put the leave chit in to see if it gets approved. None of the spouses could figure out where this problem is coming from.

Then at the last FRG meeting the CO goes on a 25 minute speech about sailors expectations to be allowed to take leave after underways, what limitations exist and what is and isn't possible. Towards the end someone raises their hand and says "hey, this stuff you're telling us about leave, have you told the sailors on the boat all of this?" and the CO makes an excuse about not being able to get everyone's attention at the same time to make a speech like that over the intercom. I couldn't believe it! The command has a freaking blog on the boat that all the sailors have access in order to read and comment (anonymously)!! Not to mention, even if there weren't a blog they could always, you know, instruct the officers and chiefs to council their guys individually or in sections about the leave policy.

So I guess what I'm saying is that in some cases the tone set by the command for reporting and dealing with personal problems may not be what is needed.

[beachy]

This thread is making it clear to me how different every branch and command is when it comes to the FRG and handling things like this. I know that at least in our command of the Navy the FRG is purely for social events, and holding meetings and get togethers, as well as putting out info on events in the area. The Ombudsmen are responsible for providing resources to family members and answering questions/addressing issues regarding anyone having a tough time. However the Ombudsmen are not able to reach out to family members and initiate contact, and there are no home visits or wellness checks allowed. Even if someone like FFSC came to you and said "this person is having a hard time with the deployment and her kids," the Ombudsmen can't reach out to them. The FFSC would have to give that person the Omb contact info for them to make the initial contact themselves for that scenario. So really, I don't see how you would be able to reach out and find the invisible spouses that way.

Personally I think every SM and spouse should have to go to some type of military info session or counseling before they can claim benefits where they would be told about the role of the FRG/FRO/Omb/etc., AmCross, deployment protocol, resources available, etc. I also think that when SM's check into a new command it should be required for the spouse to receive that information as well. Whether they choose to get involved any further than receiving the contact information is up to them, but SM's should at least be required to make sure they receive it in the first place.

[pennylane]

Sept 5, 2012 6:40:43 GMT -5 beachy said:

Personally I think every SM and spouse should have to go to some type of military info session or counseling before they can claim benefits where they would be told about the role of the FRG/FRO/Omb/etc., AmCross, deployment protocol, resources available, etc. I also think that when SM's check into a new command it should be required for the spouse to receive that information as well. Whether they choose to get involved any further than receiving the contact information is up to them, but SM's should at least be required to make sure they receive it in the first place.

I think this is a really great idea.

[pennylane]

I wasn't trying to say the military shouldn't be involved or help out families who need it. But- it varies so much across squadrons/units/Army/Navy/Marines/Air Force, etc...

It almost takes the Department of Defense to set up guidelines and training for the people who are in the role of helping military families out. Your average volunteer maybe isn't going to know what some signs of mental health issues are, or be able to gauge a person's well being especially if they've never met some of the spouses/families. Really all they can do is say, here's a phone number. That's where I'm saying personal responsibility comes in.

What about people who's spouses are going through training/boot camp and having issues with that? In my experience, training squadrons don't have an Ombudsman or what have you. To be completely effective, doing everything that's been discussed in this thread means a bit of an overhaul of the current system.

[Jam]

I haven't read through the thread because I have no idea what story you're talking about (3 children). Is there a link? I'd like to be up to pace before I keep reading.

Eta: found it.

[erin2903]

Sept 5, 2012 9:50:57 GMT -5 Jam said:

I haven't read through the thread because I have no idea what story you're talking about (3 children). Is there a link? I'd like to be up to pace before I keep reading.

pandce.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=mil&action=display&thread=51207

There are links to the news in the thread.

[poppet]

Sept 4, 2012 18:49:35 GMT -5 NomadicMama said:

I wish it weren't 1:43am here so I had more time to respond.

I recently went to ACS to seek out help for LO and me (he's mad a Daddy for deploying). A woman who works for ACS came out to the lobby and we talked briefly. Her response was that he'll get over it.

WTF?

I am much less apt to go ask for support now because of that woman's flippant remark. And I'm not in "bad" shape, especially considering the situation in TX.

As intrusive as it might feel, I wonder if spouses need to be evaluated as part of a service member's readiness to deploy. A questionnaire is an option. Something that shows that thought has been given to some kind of suppor plan.

And with that, my kid is awake and I have to go. I'll be back at some point tomorrow. . .

I agree that some sort of evaluation of spouses and their support systems while their SOs are gone should be done.

We are halfway through DHs deployment and I have absolutely no support. I often feel like I'm drowning. I've contacted our Key Spouse group FRG, and DHs major looking for help or someone to point me in the right direction. All I've gotten are sympathetic looks and "gee that sucks but I have no idea" responses.

This is my first deployment with DH so I feel lost. Living off base doesn't help. At this point I feel abandoned and like the whole "military family" talk is a bunch of crap.

If someone has a great outside support system (like sibil) then no need to stalk them. For someone like me who is new to military life, new to the area, and has no friends/family within a thousand miles a little more follow up and support can be given.

[basilosaurus]

I think with something like major depression, it's not enough to know you have resources. If you can barely muster the energy to get off the couch, how are you going to go through the effort to contact those resources? Yet, a monthly phone call from a stranger isn't going to wake you up, either, because you just put on a happy face and say fine, everything's fine, and go right back to bed.

poppet, sorry you've been brushed off. Have you contacted a national resource like military one source? They have a variety of resources to help you out.

[mrsredrox]

What happens after the questionnaire and the spouse is deemed "unstable to handle deployment" or however it would be phrased? So essentially, we could prevent our spouses from deploying by negatively answering the questionnaire? I'm not saying this is something I would do but I certainly wouldn't look past some of the other spouses I've come across resorting to this.

Or if the alternative was to keep a close tab on spouses who "failed" this so called questionnaire, then what? A volunteer wouldn't know the spouse well enough to determine if she was okay, and could miss any possible warning signs. Plus, there are the spouses who claim they don't need help. For this past deployment, I was on the CARE team, was the treasurer and co-events planner and I spent a lot of time with the other volunteers trying to check on wives and making weekly or monthly phone calls to see how everyone was doing. But there were so many wives who refused to talk to us and refused to be a part of anything we planned.

How do we know if someone who refused our outreach was struggling? Are we supposed to go to the houses to check on someone who says they don't need help? I think the FRG can only do so much without far exceeding our limits as volunteers and over crossing boundaries.

I don't know much about depression, but I believe that if you really needed help, I think you can find the help. While its nice to have a support group, we shouldnt have to rely on a group of people who are going through the same deployment to help raise our children. She should have known what she got into when she agreed to marry a service member and have three kids before turning 23. Call me harsh or whatever but I honestly believe this is just a pure case of neglect on this girls part.

[beans]

Sept 5, 2012 17:45:16 GMT -5 mrsredrox said:

I don't know much about depression, but I believe that if you really needed help, I think you can find the help. While its nice to have a support group, we shouldnt have to rely on a group of people who are going through the same deployment to help raise our children. She should have known what she got into when she agreed to marry a service member and have three kids before turning 23. Call me harsh or whatever but I honestly believe this is just a pure case of neglect on this girls part.

clearly you don't know much about depression, indeed. Not that you should think I'm trying to excuse parental neglect, but it's just not that easy or simple to "go find help" when you're severely depressed

[basilosaurus]

mrsredox, I think you bring up great points. There's a limit to how much you can and should do. I wouldn't be comfortable with anything more than a phone call, and I recognize it's likely futile.

But you're really misunderstanding depression if you think that those who are severely depressed have the easy ability to seek out appropriate care. It's not so easy as needing help and therefore finding it. You have to care enough to a) recognize you need help and b) want to do something about it. This is why I'm proactive about telling H when I feel myself slipping. I know what it feels like at the bottom, when I just don't care anymore. But on the slide down, I care enough to reach out to people and claw back up.

[Jam]

Sept 5, 2012 18:26:14 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

It's not so easy as needing help and therefore finding it. You have to care enough to a) recognize you need help and b) want to do something about it. This is why I'm proactive about telling H when I feel myself slipping. I know what it feels like at the bottom, when I just don't care anymore. But on the slide down, I care enough to reach out to people and claw back up.

Exactly. As someone who has battled both major and manic depression at different moments in my life, I can attest to how true this feeling is. I had depression since I was 15 and didn't actually SEE someone/seek help for it until I was 25.

For us, FRG positions are unpaid. The only paid person is the FRSA. I think that does have an effect on how people treat the position. I know our primary leader couldn't care less and is very much looking forward to her husband leaving the unit so she doesn't have to do this anymore. I'm the opposite of that-- as I'm sure you've seen in prior posts. I don't care that I'm "volunteering". I work my ass off, I do what I can to make things better for our families and the single soldiers.

It's hard though. We can't contact families unless the servicemember okays it. They're given the opportunity to add their spouse to the contact list and they choose not to. We can't force them to speak with us.

I do appreciate the stuff I'm reading on here because it gives me some great ideas for future meetings. The circumstances suck though, truly.