So I guess S/O is still my home

[pinkdutchtulips]

Jul 27, 2016 12:20:47 GMT -5 mommadukes said:

hugs. I didn't read through the 17 pages, but I'm sorry you are going through this

how did I miss a 17 page thread ?

[jojoandleo]

Jul 28, 2016 11:20:29 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Jul 27, 2016 12:20:47 GMT -5 mommadukes said:

hugs. I didn't read through the 17 pages, but I'm sorry you are going through this

how did I miss a 17 page thread ?

It's on ML.

berbles-I am so sorry. BUT, you are in the company of some amazing, intelligent, fabulous ladies who have been through a similar story.  On Wednesdays, we drink too much and facebook stalk people we hate to mock them. Okay, maybe that is just me.

[Deleted]

(hugs)

[shoofly]

berbles I am really sorry he did this to you...he deserves alllllll the bad stuff to happen. Hopefully karma will take its course.

As others have mentioned, many of us here probably have a similar story and know all too well how you might be feeling. I'm really sorry. It may not be of much comfort from pretty much a stranger, but know that many people are thinking of you and are here to talk whenever you'd like.

ETA: typo

[berbles]

So, I will be honest with my s/o sisters. He and I talked last night. I wanted to hear his actual words (since he basically said nothing on Tuesday). He wrote me 2 letters, lamenting his mistakes and wanting me to forgive him but also feeling like he isn't worthy of forgiveness. Words, words, words.

I told him, he has to want to fix himself. Not for me, but for him. He's broken. Not beyond repair, but very broken. He has to do the self work. On his own. Single and alone. If he does, which I'm not confident he will without my pushing (which I WILL NOT DO), and he gets to a place where HE feels like he is ready to be an adult partner to someone, and he still feels like I am the only one for him, he can TRY to win me back. He will have to try 100x harder than he's ever tried to ANYTHING in his life. And I still won't guarantee that it will be enough. Because he also has to win back my friends, which will be a LOT harder. But that's his only option if he really truly believes we're meant for each other and he can (and WANTS to) be the spouse I deserve. I will not sit around and wait. I will be doing my own self work. And maybe dating. And we may each decide that going our separate ways is best. We might not. 

Some people will say that giving him a glimmer of hope is either cruel or stupid. Maybe. But I have to do what feels right for me, and right now it doesn't feel right to just ice him out completely. He's so so broken. He has the chance right now though, to use this as a learning tool and change his life's direction. It's completely up to him where his life goes. I believe in my soul that people who make mistakes and really want to learn how to never make them again, CAN do so. I know because I have done it myself. But it took a LOT of work and having to answer some REALLY hard questions about myself and my real motivations. 

I really really really want him to want that for himself. I am not confident that he will stick with the hard work. I want him to want to prove to me that he really truly wants to be with no one else, but I won't accept half-assed bullshit. 

[doglove]

You definitely have to do what you have to do berbles. No judgment here. Just be cautious and prepared that he may just take the easier route by finding another woman who will buy his BS words because it's easier than doing the hard work to change his actions. Lots of hugs.

[Deleted]

I know you will do what you feel you need to do. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wouldn't be able to get back with someone that did that to me. I worry that you coul remain entangled with him if you are still leaving an option of possibly getting back together. I wouldn't want you to waste your time or be fooled again. I'm not trying to be negative. You know how you feel and you should trust your gut.

[berbles]

Jul 28, 2016 14:21:11 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

I know you will do what you feel you need to do. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wouldn't be able to get back with someone that did that to me. I worry that you coul remain entangled with him if you are still leaving an option of possibly getting back together. I wouldn't want you to waste your time or be fooled again. I'm not trying to be negative. You know how you feel and you should trust your gut.

I'm going to just give it time. The next few weeks will be very telling, and I will reserve making long term plans until then.

If there's no movement, just status quo, then I'm done. If he's seeing a therapist, trying to work on things, staying sober, I will take a baby step forward. 

I will let him lead, but I will not follow blindly or allow him to keep me in the wings while he does fuck all.

[Deleted]

Jul 28, 2016 14:29:51 GMT -5 berbles said:

Jul 28, 2016 14:21:11 GMT -5 @blueyes623 said:

I know you will do what you feel you need to do. Don't take this the wrong way, but I wouldn't be able to get back with someone that did that to me. I worry that you coul remain entangled with him if you are still leaving an option of possibly getting back together. I wouldn't want you to waste your time or be fooled again. I'm not trying to be negative. You know how you feel and you should trust your gut.

I'm going to just give it time. The next few weeks will be very telling, and I will reserve making long term plans until then.

If there's no movement, just status quo, then I'm done. If he's seeing a therapist, trying to work on things, staying sober, I will take a baby step forward. 

I will let him lead, but I will not follow blindly or allow him to keep me in the wings while he does fuck all.

Big hugs. You have a good head on your shoulders. Be strong.

[jojoandleo]

berbles-You do not have to answer this, but what did he say? What was his reason for leading this woman on behind your back? For ME, the hardest part would be feeling like he doesn't really respect women. He toyed with 2 women's emotions-why? Ego stroke? Was he genuinely confused about his feelings? AND THEN gaslit the other girl. He made her look crazy to make himself look better.

I think people can change and can grow. I think it is good you are making him do it on his own. And I think if this is what you need to do, You SHOULD do it. And we will be here if it goes wrong, because we have all given way more chances than we should have.

[gozf]

Yeesh. I really, truly think you're better off without this person. I have a hard time believing that he's sincere, as he's proven himself a master manipulator. I hope I'm wrong, and I I wish you the best.

[berbles]

Jul 28, 2016 16:34:11 GMT -5 jojoandleo said:

berbles -You do not have to answer this, but what did he say? What was his reason for leading this woman on behind your back? For ME, the hardest part would be feeling like he doesn't really respect women. He toyed with 2 women's emotions-why? Ego stroke? Was he genuinely confused about his feelings? AND THEN gaslit the other girl. He made her look crazy to make himself look better.

I think people can change and can grow. I think it is good you are making him do it on his own. And I think if this is what you need to do, You SHOULD do it. And we will be here if it goes wrong, because we have all given way more chances than we should have.

I don't think he CAN answer that yet. It's something he needs to explore with a professional.

[TR]

I know that you know people can change and grow. And they can. But how will you know that he's changing and being better? He hid all of this from you for THREE YEARS. What were the things in the screenshots? Was it physical? Sexting? Just telling her he liked her? Maybe that would make a difference, but I don't know. I don't know what it would take for me to trust that something like that isn't happening again, only this time he's gotten better at hiding it.

[gozf]

Jul 28, 2016 17:15:28 GMT -5 TR said:

I know that you know people can change and grow. And they can. But how will you know that he's changing and being better? He hid all of this from you for THREE YEARS. What were the things in the screenshots? Was it physical? Sexting? Just telling her he liked her? Maybe that would make a difference, but I don't know. I don't know what it would take for me to trust that something like that isn't happening again, only this time he's gotten better at hiding it.

Yes. This sort of thing would slowly eat away at me. I would always be looking over my shoulder, waiting for the other shoe to drop. And that's no way to live.

It would be hard for me to get past if it were an isolated incident. But a long-term, established pattern of behavior? I couldn't do it. That said, this isn't about me, and I should probably show myself out now.

I'm not trying to judge you berbles, or come down on you. I just can't help expressing concern.

[Deleted]

Jul 28, 2016 13:28:03 GMT -5 berbles said:

I really really really want him to want that for himself. I am not confident that he will stick with the hard work. I want him to want to prove to me that he really truly wants to be with no one else, but I won't accept half-assed bullshit. 

I'm really sorry that you're going through this

I agree that people can change eventually, but I think I've learned as I've gotten older and dated is always believe people when they show you who you are. I took on dating trying to find someone who I didn't think needed to fundamentally change.

You are too awesome to have the burden of someone who isn't trustworthy. 

[berbles]

I'm reading right now about codependency and holy BALLS is it hitting home.

[jigsy]

I love you. You deserve better. Even though you have been broken, so you feel like you can be understanding, you fixed yourself! He had opportunity after opportunity to fix himself, to ask for help if he needed it, but instead, he just kept on keeping on.

I mean, even with his drinking thing...he felt like he was successful after only a month....so if he stops talking to other women for a month, goes to therapy for a month...and then bam, hes all better? No. Just no.

Sure, don't write him off forever, but don't stay in his life right now. You need at least 30 days of no contact to work on yourself. He needs to be by himself to. Shit, I'd say 30 days for each year you were together. Trust me, I totally get the feeling of "if he works on himself, I will be there" Hell, full disclosure, I am there! This is where I am with Vegas right now...but Vegas also initiated needing to break up so he could work on himself. It feels awesome seeing someone grow who was maybe not as far along in maturity as I am...but he is really doing the work. And I gave myself 3 months of no contact to center myself.

Hugs woman. I feel you so hard right now.

[berbles]

Jul 28, 2016 19:10:05 GMT -5 jigsy said:

I love you. You deserve better. Even though you have been broken, so you feel like you can be understanding, you fixed yourself! He had opportunity after opportunity to fix himself, to ask for help if he needed it, but instead, he just kept on keeping on.

I mean, even with his drinking thing...he felt like he was successful after only a month....so if he stops talking to other women for a month, goes to therapy for a month...and then bam, hes all better? No. Just no.

Sure, don't write him off forever, but don't stay in his life right now. You need at least 30 days of no contact to work on yourself. He needs to be by himself to. Shit, I'd say 30 days for each year you were together. Trust me, I totally get the feeling of "if he works on himself, I will be there" Hell, full disclosure, I am there! This is where I am with Vegas right now...but Vegas also initiated needing to break up so he could work on himself. It feels awesome seeing someone grow who was maybe not as far along in maturity as I am...but he is really doing the work. And I gave myself 3 months of no contact to center myself.

Hugs woman. I feel you so hard right now.

Thanks. This is basically my plan. Give us each a few days to process together and formulate a bit of a plan, and then separate for at least a few months. Then see where we are.

I really REALLY want to work on this codependence thing. 

[thedutchgirl]

It is very very difficult to fix codependency and reestablish a healthy relationship where one was previously codependent. It is just so comfortable for each person to fall back into the role each is comfortable with. Good for you for wanting to work on those aspects of yourself. You'll want to be aware down the road if he does come back around that being healthy with him would be far more challenging that being healthy with a new partner.

Hugs. This all sucks.

[jenstar]

I don't know if he's a narcissist or not berbles, I guess only you have an idea of whether he meets the criteria or not. I have seen a lot of people mention it in both threads.

If he is, just keep in mind that they will usually cling to someone (particularly a codependent) when something like this happens because you are their source of narcissistic supply. So while it seems like they are repentant and ready to make changes etc, what is really happening is they're trying to keep their supply intact. It's usually easier to keep one source rather than having to find another so quickly. They struggle to live without someone there to validate their existence.

When my xh left I let him, because I knew I could never trust him to be there and looking out for me, even if he changed everything (which I knew he wouldn't anyway because I was apparently the problem).. When his ex gf left him he showed up at my door completely distraught about losing her and wrote her lengthy emails etc. She asked for no contact and he couldn't respect that at all. He did ridiculous things to try and get her back. When he finally realized it was the last time, he was seeing his current gf within 2 weeks.

All this to say, please be careful and stick to your guns on him doing the work and getting help, on his own. But also ask yourself honestly if you could ever really trust him again, given everything. I know it would take a long time and a lot of concerted, self directed effort on his part for me to do that. x

[berbles]

I actually don't think he's a narcissist. My XH was, 100% I think he is also codependent, in a deferent way from me. There's more to it that I don't want to get into, but I think solo therapy will help him. We'll see. I'm not going to make any decisions just yet, other than he has to get out.

[jenstar]

That is good news! I have to say that I didn't really get that feeling from what you'd mentioned so I hope that's the case. I wish you peace and happiness x

[doglove]

I hope you aren't self blaming and getting in the weeds with this codependent stuff. You can get lost on blaming a lot of stuff on yourself when in reality - his actions and treatment of you really have had NOTHING to do with you and are a reflection of who he is as a person. I say this because when I left my XH, I wanted to self blame and I read a codependent book and started majorly self blaming and apologizing for all this $hit. The further I got away from him with time I realized, my reactions were based on his actions towards me. I did have issues that I needed to work on, but they didn't cause him to treat me the ways he did. Hugs.

[brooke77]

This is probably not profound in anyway, but I realized that there will be people that I love that I just cannot be in a relationship with. For whatever reason, either our dynamic, or communication style, or whatever, makes it impossible for us to make it work. It's OK. I don't have to try to fight for a relationship just because I love someone or he loves me. It takes so much more than love for a relationship to work - commitment, communication, respect, etc.

It sounds like you deeply, deeply love this man. And he loves you. But maybe you two aren't meant to be in a romantic relationship together right now.

[doriswe]

berbles, I just want to say how much I admire your ability to take in all of the comments on the boards without getting defensive or agitated! You're a tough cookie!

[berbles]

Jul 29, 2016 9:58:32 GMT -5 brooke77 said:

This is probably not profound in anyway, but I realized that there will be people that I love that I just cannot be in a relationship with. For whatever reason, either our dynamic, or communication style, or whatever, makes it impossible for us to make it work. It's OK. I don't have to try to fight for a relationship just because I love someone or he loves me. It takes so much more than love for a relationship to work - commitment, communication, respect, etc.

It sounds like you deeply, deeply love this man. And he loves you. But maybe you two aren't meant to be in a romantic relationship together right now.

I know. And I've told him that. I told him to keep his mind open in therapy because he very well may realize that we're not right for reach other.

[glitzyglow]

I understand why you want to give him an opportunity to repair what he's done and to make great changes; I was the same way and did the same thing when I found out my exH was cheating/had lied. From personal experience, I would highly suggest that while he has this opportunity given to him that for your own good you enforce a no-contact rule with him. That is truly one of my biggest regrets: that I kept in contact with him, trying to be the "positive" in his life that I hoped would inspire him to reach his potential and make changes. I should have used that time to work on myself, give my heart time to heal, and then checked in 6 months later (just throwing out a time frame). He's a grown adult with the option to make positive life changes and either he will or he won't. Being in contact with him shouldn't be a determining factor for him if he really wants help and wants a 2nd chance with you. If you check-in and he hasn't taken proactive steps, then you'll have your answer about how serious he was about his chance.

I know this is such a horrible spot to be in, but I sincerely hope you'll put your well-being first and foremost, berbles.

[berbles]

Jul 29, 2016 13:43:42 GMT -5 glitzyglow said:

I understand why you want to give him an opportunity to repair what he's done and to make great changes; I was the same way and did the same thing when I found out my exH was cheating/had lied. From personal experience, I would highly suggest that while he has this opportunity given to him that for your own good you enforce a no-contact rule with him. That is truly one of my biggest regrets: that I kept in contact with him, trying to be the "positive" in his life that I hoped would inspire him to reach his potential and make changes. I should have used that time to work on myself, give my heart time to heal, and then checked in 6 months later (just throwing out a time frame). He's a grown adult with the option to make positive life changes and either he will or he won't. Being in contact with him shouldn't be a determining factor for him if he really wants help and wants a 2nd chance with you. If you check-in and he hasn't taken proactive steps, then you'll have your answer about how serious he was about his chance.

I know this is such a horrible spot to be in, but I sincerely hope you'll put your well-being first and foremost, berbles .

Yes, that's absolutely my plan. We have been talking each evening this week, but I told him starting Monday, no contact. I'm going to start with 1 month and see how *I* feel, regardless of how he feels. 

His BFF is going to let him stay at his place (which is closer to his work anyway), as long as BFF's son isn't there. On those nights, he can stay in his trailer, use the other entrance to the house and leave me alone. He also has to get all his stuff out of my room. I can't look at it.

[statlerwaldorf]

I'm sorry for what he is putting you through. I read your post the other day and didn't have a chance to reply. He sounds a lot like my xh.

No contact helped a lot. I also did counseling for my codependency. There are a lot of articles on it and it explained a lot about my relationships.

It's okay to take a time out. I don't think most people make the decision to divorce as soon as they find out about cheating and I don't think that should be any different just because you weren't married yet. Ultimately I knew I didn't want to continue my marriage because I knew I could never trust him again. I didn't want to stay in a relationship where my heart would sink every time he was on his phone or was late coming home from work. Frankly I deserved better than that.

[stephreloaded]

I just caught up on ML. I am really sad for you. Lots of hugs!!