Pitterbull -- I think it's great that you realize this is a problem and I like how non-defensive you are being in response to all the overwhelming "WTF?" here. It can be overwhelming to post an OP and get 150+ responses!
no shit! thanks, nothing like MM telling you that your situation is not as bad as you thought, it is in fact much, much worse. Impending doom and all that. And counseling!
Pitterbull -- I think it's great that you realize this is a problem and I like how non-defensive you are being in response to all the overwhelming "WTF?" here. It can be overwhelming to post an OP and get 150+ responses!
no shit! thanks, nothing like MM telling you that your situation is not as bad as you thought, it is in fact much, much worse. Impending doom and all that. And counseling!
to be fair, we only know what you write, we don't know your husband or your relationship on an ongoing basis. i'm sure a lot of people put up with things that others would find appalling, but it works for them. i think you can admit that if you read your post like we are it seems... shady and disconcerting, at best. and really, we just want you to protect yourself. have your eyes open, be aware, don't bury your head and all of that. no one is saying divorce him, just be more involved and try to get to the root of his money issues so he'll let you be involved.
Basically this was his main checking account before. He never added me to it. I added him to my account. Sometimes he pays bills from 'his' account. So it's muddy. It's not just his extra money. For the most part it isn't needed for immediate needs so I consider it to be somewhat e-fund. It would be much easier if it was all joint and any extra was appropriately saved separately for efund and retirement.
To me, this sounds like YOUR money is paying the bills most of the time and he is living off of you, all while maintaining his own finances. You are considering his money to be retirement and e-fund, when in reality, you have no access to this e-fund if an emergency came up. The tables seem heavily tilted in his favor here. Based on the separate finances, it sounds like you don't really have an e-fund.
This is where I'm at too. How nice for him to be able to utilize your money for day-to-day expenses while using his own cash to pad a semi-secret account. Yes, it was "his money" that paid off his house, but absent an explicit conversation about how money was going to be split in their house, it's money that could have instead gone toward their mutual goals and so to me it's not too far off from having spent joint money instead.
OP, please update once you talk with him about it. What angle are you planning on taking?
no shit! thanks, nothing like MM telling you that your situation is not as bad as you thought, it is in fact much, much worse. Impending doom and all that. And counseling!
to be fair, we only know what you write, we don't know your husband or your relationship on an ongoing basis. i'm sure a lot of people put up with things that others would find appalling, but it works for them. i think you can admit that if you read your post like we are it seems... shady and disconcerting, at best. and really, we just want you to protect yourself. have your eyes open, be aware, don't bury your head and all of that. no one is saying divorce him, just be more involved and try to get to the root of his money issues so he'll let you be involved.
Yeah, I know and I'm agreeing. I've just, never been the person on MM that everyone was telling to get counseling! And while I'm not worried about this becoming a huge den of lies, you guys definitely opened my eyes in terms of the property situation in my state by not being named on the house.
Post by marathon55 on Sept 7, 2012 13:40:16 GMT -5
I just skimmed this thread. It's very odd..from what I gathered: Your house is not worth more than 150K or so..he paid the last $30K off... he has accounts that you have no access to, it's his house not yours... he has trust issues and whats you to have no access to 'his' money.
1) Congrats on paying off your (or his) home... 2) I would seek some type of counseling with your DH about the money / trust issues 3) He seems like a very controlling man, and while some women like that....to me this sounds like it could lead to emotional abuse over time. However, I'm would only be in a relationship where all finances were combined.
Post by msamyfarrahfowler on Sept 7, 2012 13:45:36 GMT -5
OP, based on everything you've said, it's clear that your husband does not respect you. The sooner you realize and accept that, the better. It's not a matter of him having trust issues. Based on your financial arrangement, it seems like he's just stealing from you.
Pitterbull -- I think it's great that you realize this is a problem and I like how non-defensive you are being in response to all the overwhelming "WTF?" here. It can be overwhelming to post an OP and get 150+ responses!
no shit! thanks, nothing like MM telling you that your situation is not as bad as you thought, it is in fact much, much worse. Impending doom and all that. And counseling!
Maybe you can bring up his own past history of getting screwed with money issues and how he is (hopefully inadvertently) doing the same thing to you now, in an effort to protect himself. If he can see your situation in light of his own past issues, it might open his eyes a bit.
MIL and FIL (step but I always forget that part) had a similar set-up for a number of years so I'm not going to raise eyebrows at the "he's planning to leave you." However, it sounds like he was screwed in the past and he does have relationship/finance issues he needs to deal with. He is viewing his finances at least through the lens of "if shit happens I'm covered..." But he's not looking at the fact that it's one-sided and YOU aren't covered, and you're not looking at covering yourself to the same extent that he is.
***Deleted because it's not my info to leave public.***
So, using that as an example, be careful of letting this go on indefinitely. If it's not changed, it doesn't matter the "intentions" but the reality is you'd be royally screwed if something happened to him if you're not on his accounts (and if you are a beneficiary rather than a joint account-holder there are tax consequences that wouldn't occur if you were joint account holders so take that into consideration when you say 'well, at least add me as the beneficiary') and if the house is titled only to him. Estate and tax consequences aside, there is no reason that the accounts with the primary funds shouldn't be joint or at least open and aboveboard.
I understand those of you who are throwing up the red flags. The issue, beyond the mortgage it the overall handling of the finances. There isn't anything else going on though, like I said I can understand why some of you are going there.
We definitely have to talk. I need to get listed on the house.
However he is super cagey about finances. If he still doesn't want to combine, I don't know what other arrangement to come up with besides what we've been doing. I'm not getting divorced over a checking account
When we married, we had established accounts, bills, etc. Also, we had a several friends always taking about "fun money" each one is alotted and how the other spent their fun money, etc. We did not want to these same type of tension/conversations. This is what we do and works perfectly, because you put it out there that you could not think of other solutions.
We have four accounts: his/mine/joint checking ang joint savings
We figured all the household bills and our daughther's expenses (tuition, soccer, clothing, etc) and placed a set amount from each of our paychecks into the joint checking and a set amount per paycheck into joint savings. The remainder of my paycheck goes into my acct and his into his acct. From our personal accounts, we pay for things for us: clothes, lunches, haircuts, whatever.
For us it is win/win--house/child is all taken care of and we do not have to give each other allowances. Just a thought...
We did on her behalf, which is why the house is now joint. She stood up for herself once DH explained the situation to her. (He was a kid when they bought the first house. The move allowed her another forum to make changes.) He's "cagey" about money because of his prior divorce. They're a LOT more open now, thanks to this issue being brought up so they could work through it and make more jointly beneficial arrangements (that and time for him to get over some of his issues.)
OP: DH as a separate account where his paycheck is deposited (he moved here in a job transfer while I stayed behind to sell our house) and he pays all the household bills from it. We've not bothered putting me on the account because we simply haven't done it. I use our joint account (from another state before we moved here) as my account. The difference is that I'm beneficiary on it, the checkbook is on the desk right beside me as I type this, I have his passwords and everything with all accounts is totally transparent. Your problem is his "caginess" and lack of transparency, not the separate accounts. You can make whatever financial arrangements work for you (everybody does things differently) but you CANNOT have secrets if things are expected to function properly.
Post by hopecounts on Sept 7, 2012 14:46:37 GMT -5
OP: the issue here isn't a checking account it's that he's protecting himself leaving you royally screwed if something happens, not just divorce but if he were incapacitated how would you access the fund if neede for medical care? Legally it would be a lot of work to access it if he was in a coma or otherwise unable to give you access.
And yes this is pretty much what my dad did to my Mom prior to their divorce and it left her seriously hurting financially still and it's been 15 yrs, the amount he hid has funded his plane and retirement while my Mom is having to be careful just so she can afford retirement.
Post by kangaroo11 on Sept 7, 2012 14:49:57 GMT -5
This thread makes me feel like a jerk. I have an account that my husband isn't on, but it's where my paycheck gets deposited. I did offer to add him and he didn't want to bother, but I also pay our credit card and utility bills from my account. He handles the mortgage and rest of the bills from our joint account, where his paycheck gets deposited.
My H has access to all our accounts, but he never checks them. I could wipe the accounts clean and he probably wouldn't know for 6 months. All this means is that the OP just didn't pay attention.
This is where I'm at.
One the one hand, I'd be pissed. But at the same time, I pay attention to my household finances and I think it's important. My H doesn't give a shit about our money and while he has access to all accounts he never looks. This doesn't give me an excuse to be shady though and it doesn't give my H an excuse to not know anything.
OP, you're both at fault. He's being secretive with that account & the way he went about paying off the house (plus all the other accounts) and you need to pay attention to your finances so you don't get screwed over. In my mind you have no excuse.
This thread makes me feel like a jerk. I have an account that my husband isn't on, but it's where my paycheck gets deposited. I did offer to add him and he didn't want to bother, but I also pay our credit card and utility bills from my account. He handles the mortgage and rest of the bills from our joint account, where his paycheck gets deposited.
Should my husband be worried I'm leaving him?
I'm in a similar boat. We have some separate accounts. I bought my car by myself. I'm a financial control freak. We're OK.
This thread makes me feel like a jerk. I have an account that my husband isn't on, but it's where my paycheck gets deposited. I did offer to add him and he didn't want to bother, but I also pay our credit card and utility bills from my account. He handles the mortgage and rest of the bills from our joint account, where his paycheck gets deposited.
Should my husband be worried I'm leaving him?
I'm in a similar boat. We have some separate accounts. I bought my car by myself. I'm a financial control freak. We're OK.
I've been thinking the same thing...My H and I have a joint acct, but I still have my own acct from before we got married. My paycheck goes to that acct and I pay the rent/utilities with it, while most other stuff comes out of the joint acct. My H takes very little interest in the finances...he has all the passwords, but never looks at anything. In theory, I could pull all sorts of shady shit without him realizing.
So, I guess, in our arrangement, I'm a little bit like the OP's husband. Except I would be happy to add my H to the acct if he asked me to. Hell, I'd be thrilled if he took more interest in the finances, but it's like pulling teeth!
This thread makes me feel like a jerk. I have an account that my husband isn't on, but it's where my paycheck gets deposited. I did offer to add him and he didn't want to bother, but I also pay our credit card and utility bills from my account. He handles the mortgage and rest of the bills from our joint account, where his paycheck gets deposited.
Should my husband be worried I'm leaving him?
But you offered. The OP's H refused to add her. Not the same.
Wow to this post. Pitterbull, sorry if this has been asked and/or answered, but - why did he hide this from you? I mean there are obvious things in your financial arrangement that need to change - you need access to all accounts, and you need to keep yourself aware of their status on a regular basis - but this one I can't figure out. Did you ask him why? What was his answer?
Post by MixedBerryJam on Sept 7, 2012 15:02:25 GMT -5
I know! So I was bugging him for the past few months to check out refinancing and we should see if it would be worth it. We didn't owe a lot still (I wasn't sure exactly where we were at), but I thought we should be checking it out to see. So he was stalling me and evidently had ALREADY finished paying. Ooooh I'm so mad![/quote][/i]
I might have been a little peeved that he made that financial decision without soliciting my input, but this part would Have. Me. Fuming. So he paid off the house weeks/months ago and purposely hid this from you? I'd question his motivation.
I'm in a similar boat. We have some separate accounts. I bought my car by myself. I'm a financial control freak. We're OK.
I've been thinking the same thing...My H and I have a joint acct, but I still have my own acct from before we got married. My paycheck goes to that acct and I pay the rent/utilities with it, while most other stuff comes out of the joint acct. My H takes very little interest in the finances...he has all the passwords, but never looks at anything. In theory, I could pull all sorts of shady shit without him realizing.
So, I guess, in our arrangement, I'm a little bit like the OP's husband. Except I would be happy to add my H to the acct if he asked me to. Hell, I'd be thrilled if he took more interest in the finances, but it's like pulling teeth!
the difference in all of these is transparency. it doesn't sound like any of you or your spouses are refusing to add the other to an account.
Wow to this post. Pitterbull, sorry if this has been asked and/or answered, but - why did he hide this from you? I mean there are obvious things in your financial arrangement that need to change - you need access to all accounts, and you need to keep yourself aware of their status on a regular basis - but this one I can't figure out. Did you ask him why? What was his answer?
no I didn't answer this yet. we talked since my OP this morning, but I'm not exactly looking forward to the pile-on...
basically he said he wasn't feeling ready to take on the kitchen reno and other things just yet and knew I was going to be antsy about getting underway. so he decided not to tell me we no longer have that monthly obligation. we've had a lot going on and if he wasn't financially/physically/emotionally ready to do something I'm sure we could have come up with a compromise. we'll talk more later, that's all I have right now.
Post by vanillacourage on Sept 7, 2012 15:23:30 GMT -5
Soooo he basically patted you on the head and nothing is going to change?
Yeah, I am legit concerned for you. At a minimum I would stop using all of your money to pay joint bills - if he's not willing to mingle finances or stop making unilateral decisions, I'd figure out how to split things fairly. I.e. splitting bills either down the middle or each person putting in a percentage proportionate to what they make relative to the total HHI.
Wow to this post. Pitterbull, sorry if this has been asked and/or answered, but - why did he hide this from you? I mean there are obvious things in your financial arrangement that need to change - you need access to all accounts, and you need to keep yourself aware of their status on a regular basis - but this one I can't figure out. Did you ask him why? What was his answer?
no I didn't answer this yet. we talked since my OP this morning, but I'm not exactly looking forward to the pile-on...
basically he said he wasn't feeling ready to take on the kitchen reno and other things just yet and knew I was going to be antsy about getting underway. so he decided not to tell me we no longer have that monthly obligation. we've had a lot going on and if he wasn't financially/physically/emotionally ready to do something I'm sure we could have come up with a compromise. we'll talk more later, that's all I have right now.
So it sounds like you two had different priorities with the money. It happens. BUT, instead of talking it out and coming to some kind of compromise, he decided to just do it his way and not tell you. Not cool.