I went to college, H didn't. He started a business in high school and continued that until a few years ago when he sold it and started working for an operators union.
I plan to tell our kids they need to go to some type of post high school school - 4 year college, trade school, whatever. If they just want to work I probably wouldn't let them stay at home, unless it was short term.
My DH & I both have graduate degrees from a top 10 school in our extremely competitive field. Going to college is the norm in DH & my families. Between my siblings & I there are 6 Bachelors, 2 Masters, a Doctorate & a PhD (in progress).
That being said, no I don't consider college "non-optional". I want my kids to pursue their dreams. Some of my children are very creative and may lean toward entrepreneurial pursuits. They happen to be lucky enough to have a lot of advantages before they go to college. I assume they will go and they'll likely have it paid for if they want, but I rather they not waste time/money going if their heart is elsewhere. I'll support artistic pursuits or they can join my real estate pursuits. Or they may just want to do something else. The older I get & my children get, the less their lives are about *me* GWIM? I want them to be successful & happy of course, but by their own definition, not mine.
I definitely want them to go to college (away to college too, i think that's an experience that shouldn't be missed and DH agrees, having lived at home for school, i also want them to study abroad since i missed that chance). But if they want to take another, productive direction (chef, trade, military, PGA golfer, whatever) I wouldn't be opposed.
my goal is to offer 90% paid public university (our instate university is very good, but even my out of state, public alma mater isn't really any more expensive since our instate is so $$) and 10% from their pocket or loans like my parents did, to encourage some learning around savings and loan repayment. If they are set on private, we can reevaluate.
Post by bunnymendelbaum on Sept 2, 2016 14:16:28 GMT -5
Optional.
My DH and I both have college degrees, but only 1 of our 4 parents do. We all do well. FIL owned a successful business. My dad worked a great union trade job. I'm an architect and have great respect for trades. I would be fine with whatever makes my kids happy.
I don't believe that I will be in charge of my adult children's lives. I can't make decisions for them. I can't "make" them go to college.
But like many many posters have said, our children will be raised with the expectation that they attend college. We won't present it in an optional light. We will encourage them to go away to school, to travel and take opportunities, etc. We will help pay to whatever degree we are comfortable with at the time.
Whether or not they go to college, our expectations will be that when they are done with their schooling, they will be as financially independent as possible and will be expected to live within the means of whatever career they choose or job they have at any given point. I also expect my high school and college kids to work and fund their own "spending money", which I know is not a view everyone on this board has.
Of course I can think of many reasons why that might not work out (special needs, extraordinary talents in other areas, passion for military service, business opportunities, etc.) but it will be our baseline expectation.
I also like what Marmee said about their lives not being about ME. Yes, I want and expect them to go to college & probably graduate degrees as well. But it's not something I will ultimately have control over. And I think that's ok.
For our family, this falls into the "when you make plans, God laughs" category. :-)
Both my husband and I have graduate degrees, and my degrees are from some of the top universities in the U.S. Before having kids, I would probably have joked about whether they would go to MIT or Stanford with my husband.
We now have one child with profound intellectual disability -- she will likely never be older than 12 months cognitively. She needs 24x7 care forever. My other kid has had 2 brain tumors removed and gone through months of chemo. I don't give a shit whether she goes to college as long as she is alive by then. I am actually hopeful that 10 years from now, I will actually care again whether she goes to college, because her health scare will be far behind us. :-)
But really, if my younger kid comes to me and wants to become a hairdresser or an HVAC repairman, I might be perfectly fine with that 14 years from now. Frankly, a hairdresser is probably one of the last jobs that will be replaced by artificial intelligence. I work in a field where I think a lot about AI, and I think career paths could be very different in 20 years.
I hope my kids attend college but I won't force them to yet something has to happen aside from sitting at home (my home) all day. My oldest is getting close to college age and she has ideas of what she wants to do and one is a trade school but she says she wants a college education as back up. I'll keep pointing out that they have a great deal with free in-state tuition so they have an amazing opportunity that should be taken advantage of. I want them to have the college experience, enjoy being young, and do practically the opposite of everything I did because the way I did things was rough.
Generally, yes we expect them to go to a 4 year university and we plan to pay. It's not a choice, it's just the next step for them after high school.
DH and I were talking about this. I wonder in our area (educated and higher socioeconomic) would a parent let their daughter skip college and go straight to cosmetology school if they were bad at school or just plain not interested in higher education. I mean at an economic level it makes sense that people not spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on college if they are not going to use the degree, but maybe it's good to have the degree to fall back on?
Both msniq & I came from "all kids went to college" households. All of our parents went to college (well SFIL didn't, so five of six of Val's grandparents). Some of her siblings took more than four years to graduate, but everyone graduated too. I fully expect our kids to go to college.
If the kids want to go to a mid-tier private liberal arts school, or go to a school primarily because it's close to good skiing/beaches/golf/whatever, I might not pay 100% of the cost of that. But other than that, they can go wherever they want.
I don't have kids (I'm just lurking here!) but if I did, I don't think I'd require college. I'd encourage it, though. I do think I'd also encourage a gap year or years before college. I know I wasted a lot of time at the beginning of college because I was just there because I kind of felt like I had to go. I actually dropped out in the middle of my 4th year, took a year off, and came back far more committed to school than I had before the time off (and working full time in a crappy job and just scraping by...that was a big motivator for going back to school!). And honestly, I think if I had waited even LONGER to go to college, I'd have ended up in a better place with less college debt.
I don't think college is absolutely necessary as the only path to a good life. I do hope that a child I would have would pursue a trade or something as a career - but college is not the right path for absolutely everyone.
I think my FI might feel a lot more strongly about our hypothetical child getting at least a college education, though. He comes from a far more academic family than mine, and 2 master's degrees and a PhD later, I have trouble envisioning him being ok with his kid not having at least a bachelors. But we don't plan to have kids so thankfully that's not an issue.
Higher education is important. College is important. But if I see that DD has terrific skill in a certain trade where 4yr college doesn't make sense, I hope to be open enough to see that is a valid path. I know a lot of skilled tradesman that make very good money and 4yr college would have been "wasted" on them.
It's her decision as she'll be an adult, but we won't let her play with the money we have set aside in a 529 and just fritter it all away.
FWIW, my mom and dad both started college and neither finished (for different reasons). Yet all three of my siblings and I have college degrees. It was VERY important to my parents, and especially my mom, that we go.
Ditto many others that some post high school education/training needs to happen. I always knew I was going to college, both of my parents went. DH and I both have bachelor's degrees and I am going for a master's, so while it is the expectation, it's not a requirement. I have 1 cousin who went straight to the military, another who is managing the family store with an associates, and another who is working FT with my BIL, and neither have college degrees.
College was non-negotiable for me and, barring special circumstances, it will be for my kids as well. I begged my parents to let me stay home and do community college, with the process to transfer later, because I wanted to stay near my high school friends and boyfriend, but my mom held firm. I'm so glad she did too. I followed my heart and got a "random" degree (film!) and am so glad that I did. I ended up going to grad school to become a librarian, but my undergraduate experience was so good for me. I learned to love everything about school and learning and, without my high school angst, I thrived. I feel like my random college education led me to grad school and eventually to a reasonable career (librarian) and I guess that has influenced my belief that college degrees can open paths to a lot of different careers. Choosing a trade school at age 18 seems like it can lock you even further into a path that you may or may not be mature enough to decide on. My sister went to trade school (an expensive cosmetology school) and thought she'd love it, but ended up hating everything about the job. Total waste of money and time for her (although I guess she can do her own hair coloring like a boss, so maybe not a total waste...).
Anyway, I hope my kids go to college (obviously, they'll have some choice about it). We will pay what we can. We are saving and my H's employer offers a substantial tuition benefit (to any university, not just the one he works at), so I really, really hope we can pay for both our kids to go to undergrad.
College was never presented as optional for me. The question was which college I would attend, not whether I would. I legitimately never considered not going to college. Barring some unforeseen circumstance like a disability, I intend to raise my children the same way.
If my child comes to me and says he or she has an actual plan for independence that does not involve going to college, well, I can't force an adult to do anything. But college will be viewed as an expectation in our household, not an option.
Yes, college is a very firm expectation for our boys. If they opt not to go, and want our support for something else, it would have to be a well thought out plan (like they want to go to a trade school or something).
I don't think college is the be all and end all in life. But I do think it is a lot harder to go for a 4 year degree at 30 or 40 than it is at 18, so I would really push for it. And I think a 4 year degree is just so basic now.
It doesn't mean they can't follow their dreams as well. We have a friend who got a degree from UPenn, then took two years to try to become a Broadway star. Didn't work, now he's at Google doing alright for himself lol. But he at least knows that he tried, and when it didn't work out, he had a UPenn degree as back up.
H is the first one in his family to go to college, so he feels more strongly about it than I do, if possible. For him it's a sign that he is moving up socially/financially. I think if our boys came to us and said, I really want to do XYZ instead of college, we would discuss it, but I can't see myself supporting them past 18 unless they have a VERY clear plan.
My parents both have grad degrees, I'm a lawyer, my brothers a doctor, my other brother has his own business consulting with the "alphabet" agencies. So college was a huge stepping stone for all of us. I'm just not comfortable not having that same expectation for my children.
Post by starburst604 on Sept 2, 2016 14:55:33 GMT -5
I would like her to go to college, and will raise her with the expectation that she will go. But I would not force her, how can you force it? If she is serious about a trade I will get behind that, and she can use her college fund for that education. Otherwise, she will need to get a job and support herself entirely on her own. None of the living at home rent free while making minimum wage and spending it on lava lamps and shit.
I would be really disappointed if my kids didn't go to college. I don't think college is the be all end all, by any means, but it was a formative experience academically and socially and emotionally for me, and I want them to have that experience.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
I'm curious, for those who say its a non-negotiable/expectation, whether its college or trade school, what are your plans to help pay? I realize this is MMM, so lots will say their 529's, but I know thats not the case for everyone. I'm just curious if those people who say their kid HAS to go to college, if they're going to fund all of it, some of it, or none?
We have 529s for them so we will fund as much as we can. After undergrad, they are on their own (loans, I guess) for grad school if that's the path they choose.
FFFC: I don't think it's right to say "college is required" without a plan to help make it possible.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Post by nextbigthing on Sept 2, 2016 15:14:02 GMT -5
Definitely college or some sort of trade school. Not optional. And I will encourage him to get into a field with good earnings potential. I have too many friends with crushing student debt and low paying careers that they are passionate about but cant enjoy because they have to worry about the debt.
I grew up knowing that college was not optional. It was expected that at minimum we would go to college, and implied that further education was also expected.
I expect DS to go to either go to college or learn a trade. I think a lot of this stems from my parents expectations for my siblings and myself. It's hard to shake an ingrained mindset.
Ditto.
Neither of my parents went to college. The whole purpose of uprooting from India to the US when they were 40 was to give my brother (I wasn't born yet) better educational opportunities. There was never any discussion about not going to college.
MH's background is similar in that he was the first in his family to go to college. It wasn't non-negotiable in his household, but he saw it as a way to escape the financial struggles his parents experienced.
Post by estrellita on Sept 2, 2016 15:26:41 GMT -5
My parents didn't expect it, but encouraged it. Since I have an older sister I kinda followed in her footsteps by attending college, although we did things completely differently. My parents did not go to college.
For my kids, I think I will encourage it but not "require" it. If they know what they want to do, I'm going to highly encourage it. But if they're like me, I might tell them to wait. I goofed off a lot in college. I enjoyed my experience and I don't regret it, but I feel like I did nothing to further my career. I don't make more money and I'm not even working in my field. So I think I want my kids to go, but I don't want them to feel like they wasted money like I feel sometimes.
Definitely college or some sort of trade school. Not optional. And I will encourage him to get into a field with good earnings potential. I have too many friends with crushing student debt and low paying careers that they are passionate about but cant enjoy because they have to worry about the debt.
This is actually how I feel too in regards to the job. I want to encourage my kids to find a field they enjoy but also pays well. Because I keep looking around wondering how people my age at my job are building houses, having lots of kids, etc. Then I remember they don't have the student loan debt H and I have. We both should have focused on different fields. We struggle a lot and this is a huge reason why.
Post by pizzapizza on Sept 2, 2016 15:42:31 GMT -5
I would fully expect my girls to go to college. What I do find fascinating is how there is so many more ways to learn information via MOOCs and the like online. I would love them to explore those resources prior to college so they have a better sense of the kind of careers they would like to have when they are older. I was also in a joint-enrollment program in high school that I found very helpful that I hope they can participate in as well.
I will let the girls take the lead. Neither H nor I did college on a traditional schedule, and that turned out well for us, so I'm not going to pressure them to get into something that doesn't interest them. H and I are lifelong learners, who both read a LOT and have many interests, and that's what I hope rubs off on them.
College is strongly, strongly encouraged in my family. I don't want to say it's mandatory because I realize that some people are better suited for a trade school and that very well may be my children. DH and I both have our bachelors and I will have my masters this spring. After that DH will probably go back and get his masters. Education is something we both value and put emphasis on. We (along with grandparent gifts) will fully fund our children's bachelor's degrees. Anything above that we'll have to wait and see. Both DH and I had our colleges completely paid for and that really helped us as young adults starting out to not having any student loans or debt.
College prof here. College will be encouraged but any plan will be required. If my boys are not "ready" for college, I will not force them--I see that too often. However, a future employment plan is necessary. I went off, dropped out, and came up with an alternate plan. I did go back (almost immediately) but it was a way different location/method/major.
It was non negotiable for me. My grandmother was one of the first women to graduate from the engineering school at Purdue, my other grandmother has a BSN from northwestern, and a second BA in French, both grandfathers were/are attorneys and step gf was a dr. It's basically continued like that and I'm actually the least educated with 'only' a BA (that tol me 5.5 years to get )
I would like to think it would be non negotiable for our kids as well but it's TBD. If DD decided she wanted to do a trade type career I would like to think we could compromise with a 4 year degree plus the trade school so she could maybe start her own business.
If for nothing else, the time DH and I spent in college were some great years and allowed me to grow and mature at my own pace, and really explore what I wanted to do/who I was. Plus the environment was so fun and I made some of my best friends in my sorority.
Post by emoflamingo on Sept 2, 2016 15:53:44 GMT -5
My dad used to say "you graduate high school at 18 and can't get a CDL until you're 21 so there's time for college." So yeah, it was expected. The only one of us who did not do any college is the only one with a CDL now, ironically.
I won't force my kids to go to school, mostly because I think technical school can be just as fulfilling and rewarding. My brother, by far, makes more money than the rest of us without the degree. (My sister and her BSN is higher than me with my media degree lol.)
I grew up in a third world country where most people typically think education is the key to success. College wasn't presented to me one way or another, it just was what people did after secondary school (high school). I mean people don't typically tell their kids they have to go to high school, it's just the next step in the process. That's how it is for me. Both of my parents have graduate degrees and all three of my siblings and I have graduate degrees, one a PhD. This is pretty much the case for my large extended family. It is just the way things are. I would admit that I have become a tiny bit more open minded about this, but my default is that college is just the next step. We do hope to pay for our kid's education as much as we can.
I'm curious, for those who say its a non-negotiable/expectation, whether its college or trade school, what are your plans to help pay? I realize this is MMM, so lots will say their 529's, but I know thats not the case for everyone. I'm just curious if those people who say their kid HAS to go to college, if they're going to fund all of it, some of it, or none?
We have 529s for them so we will fund as much as we can. After undergrad, they are on their own (loans, I guess) for grad school if that's the path they choose.
FFFC: I don't think it's right to say "college is required" without a plan to help make it possible.
I do not view this as flameful. My dad pushed college hard. I had a 2 year scholarship that paid for a lot of my schooling before I had knee surgery and then I took loans for the rest. I didn't finish in 4 years and I have a ton of debt, but no job that pays well like I'm sure he envisioned. It was a lot of "you will have a better life than I had" talk.