Can we talk about banning posters and modding race topics?

[y4m]

Trying to figure out the best way to balance making WOC on the boards feel supported and protected with the need to make things clear for moderators who signed up for a pretty hands-off role. I honestly don't know the right answer and would appreciate your guidance.

Asking you guys to be the arbiters of who needs to be banned doesn't feel right or fair, but nor does putting a bunch of (largely white) mods in charge of deciding that for you.

I've been a fan of the hands off community-runs-off-racists approach because it is most in keeping with how we have always run the boards and more importantly it sends the message that we as a community are standing together and not tolerating certain behavior. But maybe that's not working and we need to find a way to be more hands-on (at the same time in a way that is consistent and clear for our mods).

Now I'm rambling, sorry for that, and sorry to once again be coming to the WOC on the board for a solution here. I'm open to any suggestions because I want to get this right and don't know how to. So thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[sfy]

I suspect I'll be in the minority on this--if not alone lol--but personally, I don't see the point in banning people. Racists exist, I know this and I am opting to post on a predominantly white message board anyway. I don't expect the board to be racist free and I don't even care if the racists speak up as long as it's not unquestionably and patently offensive (which, I realize is where that gray area and slippery slope come into play). I think what is starting to happen, is a board where people feel like they must censor themselves and tip toe around for fear of getting called out and I find it pretty wack. Now granted, the majority of my message board world is spent in a place where people tell once another to "drown in lye and die slow bitch," so message board censorship is not really something I encountered before GBCN, but still. I just think let people say what they need to say. I didn't think lys or sands should have been banned from CEP, even though I'm glad to see they were banned from this board, where they would clearly serve no purpose but to antagonize. I didn't agree with them, I think they're assholes, but guess what? When you're grown in life and you choose to get out and mix it up, you encounter assholes with whom you may disagree. The solution, IMO, is not making them all take their balls and go home. And now, people are being called out for not giving a fuck? Like I would tell my own DS, no one has to GAF about you but me lol. It's just bizarre to me, I don't know.

[05heel]

No censorship or banning. Go ahead and be racist. I don't care. As long as we agree that there will be no "dialogue" taking place on my part. I reserve the right to go all the way in on anyone who I think deserves it. So in short, show your ass, and I will harass and drag you until I get tired.

[kicks]

Sept 3, 2016 4:51:51 GMT -5 sfy said:

I suspect I'll be in the minority on this--if not alone lol--but personally, I don't see the point in banning people. Racists exist, I know this and I am opting to post on a predominantly white message board anyway. I don't expect the board to be racist free and I don't even care if the racists speak up as long as it's not unquestionably and patently offensive (which, I realize is where that gray area and slippery slope come into play). I think what is starting to happen, is a board where people feel like they must censor themselves and tip toe around for fear of getting called out and I find it pretty wack. Now granted, the majority of my message board world is spent in a place where people tell once another to "drown in lye and die slow bitch," so message board censorship is not really something I encountered before GBCN, but still. I just think let people say what they need to say. I didn't think lys or sands should have been banned from CEP, even though I'm glad to see they were banned from this board, where they would clearly serve no purpose but to antagonize. I didn't agree with them, I think they're assholes, but guess what? When you're grown in life and you choose to get out and mix it up, you encounter assholes with whom you may disagree. The solution, IMO, is not making them all take their balls and go home. And now, people are being called out for not giving a fuck? Like I would tell my own DS, no one has to GAF about you but me lol. It's just bizarre to me, I don't know.

Sfy is always so wise.

I assume there was more talk on MMM?

I think for me things cross the line and consider banning when harassment occurs, like specifically running around harassing a certain person or groups of people. But that doesn't seem to happen all that often.


I don't think we can ban every racist, sexist or homophobic remark someone makes. I'm here to hang out, not be the board police except to call someone out straight out their name when they say ignorant things. I'm all for everyone letting their true colors show.

[y4m]

My name is Elena. I am very white. I am not scarred by this. I wish I hadn't missed that Maria thread.

[05heel]

Sept 3, 2016 8:17:10 GMT -5 @natariru said:

Sept 3, 2016 8:04:45 GMT -5 05heel said:

No censorship or banning. Go ahead and be racist. I don't care. As long as we agree that there will be no "dialogue" taking place on my part. I reserve the right to go all the way in on anyone who I think deserves it. So in short, show your ass, and I will harass and drag you until I get tired.

Have you met supergreen? Bc that's how I feel about her.

I haven't, but I feel your pain. I have a few of those on ML. I just can't help myself when they show up.

[brandnewday]

I do feel that people highly suspect in sending hate packages should be banned. I don't think we'll ever know 100% who sent them. However the build up and the antagonizing and bullying that went on before the package was sent was enough.

As far as sands, I thought it was time. She had gone on posting racist crap maliciously for too long imo.

The MMM harbors the kind of racism that is a daily bother and struggle. Underlying and micro. Subconscious biases that still should be addressed. Most don't come back with 3/5 comments after people have politely and thoroughly engaged after years of time. I guess for me, and I might be alone, intent matters regarding banning.

[NitaX]

I think the obvious lone "OMG I had no idea XYZ is bigoted" vs. a pattern of bigoted drivel is pretty straightforward. Sands has a pattern that is certainly not new.

Furthermore, I would hope that posters on GBCN wouldn't think the WOC board is s prime opportunity to come and harass the women on this forum. Should that happen, then I will ask posters be banned. Because I will not tolerate anyone coming here and making asinine comments or engaging in any form of race baiting.

But because simple people are simple, I imagine it will happen and when it does, I will show no mercy in having them banned.

[05heel]

I really don't understand the current call outs on the MMM board. Maybe because it's not my board and those aren't my friends, but that doesn't seem like a way to get more WOC to post or return there. I don't care what anyone says. I've been on ML for over ten years, and it will always be just a message board to me. Just be cool and go on about your days. It will be ok. I'm not trying to victim blame or anything, but I'm getting embarrassed for people.

[05heel]

Sept 3, 2016 12:27:53 GMT -5 @natariru said:

Sept 3, 2016 12:23:30 GMT -5 05heel said:

I really don't understand the current call outs on the MMM board. Maybe because it's not my board and those aren't my friends, but that doesn't seem like a way to get more WOC to post or return there. I don't care what anyone says. I've been on ML for over ten years, and it will always be just a message board to me. Just be cool and go on about your days. It will be ok. I'm not trying to victim blame or anything, but I'm getting embarrassed for people.

I think it's a lot of " hey! you are making us look bad!"

I also think that people feel like the "know" someone just by interacting here daily and when that person shows their ass, it's a shock for them. When in reality, we are posting with a variety of people with a variety of shortcomings. We just happen to have the same car seat.

you're probably right. I ain't shit, so I just assume most people ain't shit either. Even if they haven't yet realized it themselves.

[sfy]

Sept 3, 2016 12:23:30 GMT -5 05heel said:

I really don't understand the current call outs on the MMM board. Maybe because it's not my board and those aren't my friends, but that doesn't seem like a way to get more WOC to post or return there. I don't care what anyone says. I've been on ML for over ten years, and it will always be just a message board to me. Just be cool and go on about your days. It will be ok. I'm not trying to victim blame or anything, but I'm getting embarrassed for people.

No shade to any MMM regs, but that board is so angst-ridden, it's ridiculous. I don't understand the culture of the board at all.

[kicks]

Omg, so I just clicked over to MMM. I guess I'll stick to my regularly scheduled response of WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK?!

I didn't read everything but lol at the call outs. It's becoming the new "I'm reading, I'm listening, I'm learning."

It all seems so self-congratulatory. Things are gonna predictably stay messy over there.

[TamiTaylor]

I am truly sorry for what has been happening for years. I am sad that we have lost so many quality posters. It makes me ill that the voice the collective board tuned into was mine after years of microagressions. I realize that I have that privilege to yell and scream and cuss and won't be demeaned due to that.

The burden banning of racist posters should never be squarely on you. That is what makes it easier for "us" but it is not fixing the deeper issue.

I hope you don't find my words hollow, but I am deeply sorry for the pain we have inflicted.

[y4m]

Thanks very much all of you. This thread makes me feel much better about the path we've taken so far on this, at least as far as moderating. The MMM calls for banning were starting to make me feel like I was personally missing something you guys needed us to be proactive about, but it sounds like that's generally not the case.

One ask--if there is something you need or we're not doing/seeing, please make sure Ellie and I know.

[05heel]

Sept 4, 2016 9:12:46 GMT -5 y4m said:

Thanks very much all of you. This thread makes me feel much better about the path we've taken so far on this, at least as far as moderating. The MMM calls for banning were starting to make me feel like I was personally missing something you guys needed us to be proactive about, but it sounds like that's generally not the case.

One ask--if there is something you need or we're not doing/seeing, please make sure Ellie and I know.

can you post some of the messiest PM's you've received here? Particularly the ones calling for Kirkette's banning during the Booby fiasco. Please and thank you. Also, I would like full administrative powers. I'm trustworthy and only have the purest intentions.

[kicks]

Sept 4, 2016 9:18:52 GMT -5 05heel said:

Sept 4, 2016 9:12:46 GMT -5 y4m said:

Thanks very much all of you. This thread makes me feel much better about the path we've taken so far on this, at least as far as moderating. The MMM calls for banning were starting to make me feel like I was personally missing something you guys needed us to be proactive about, but it sounds like that's generally not the case.

One ask--if there is something you need or we're not doing/seeing, please make sure Ellie and I know.

can you post some of the messiest PM's you've received here? Particularly the ones calling for Kirkette's banning during the Booby fiasco. Please and thank you. Also, I would like full administrative powers. I'm trustworthy and only have the purest intentions.

Show me the receipts!

[Queen Mamadala]

Sept 3, 2016 8:04:45 GMT -5 05heel said:

No censorship or banning. Go ahead and be racist. I don't care. As long as we agree that there will be no "dialogue" taking place on my part. I reserve the right to go all the way in on anyone who I think deserves it. So in short, show your ass, and I will harass and drag you until I get tired.

This.

I've been active on several message boards that had a no–hold–barred approach to moderation and only banned people on rare occasions. Basically, if you showed your ass, you were properly flamed and would eat crow, or not. The willfully ignorant, dense and obtuse often left of their own accord once they realized their asshattery and bullshit were not welcome.