Like, really white people. Just knock it off. Or not, I really don't care. But some of you are deluding yourselves if you honestly think most black people are just out here dying for "white allies". I know a lot of very black people. 98.756% give as many fucks about you as you've demonstrated to give about them. You're embarrassing yourselves. My views sound extreme here, but they really aren't outside of the UMC echo chamber of this board. This shit is ridiculous.
@tambcat you've missed the point of mishy 's post. Read it again and answer the question.
Some were women of color.
I didn't take roll but the majority were WOC. You were defensive and attacked others instead acknowledging any posts where you were tagged or accepting that you've had a role in what has happened on the board. I tagged you because I thought mishy pointed out something that would normally get glossed over.
We (white people) all need to accept that we have each had a role in what has gone on here and we need to change our behaviors. Stop deflecting and think about what people had said to you and to others. Reflecting on your own actions isn't comfortable but it necessary to grow
I'm sorry. I'm trying to be honest and respectful in my approach, and my attempt at humor was a misstep. I really don't want to hurt anyone more than I already have.
I apologized to you in a thread once because you said you felt some way (I can't remember) about the fact that you still lived in your hometown while other posters had lived all over or traveled all over or whatever. I explained that it was because I came from a very segregated city that did not make my family feel very welcome for years (and where my parents no longer live) and that I felt like it simply wasn't an option for me to move "home." And I feel like a complete and utter moron for doing so after seeing you ghost and double down and make a quip about whether @this's real name is Lucille Bluth.
@tambcat you've missed the point of mishy 's post. Read it again and answer the question.
Yeah, she is only answering a select few questions at this time. And they aren't really answers, just a round about way not to get too deep in this topic.
I give up. I'm done for the night.
The other reason I tagged it is because many of us (myself included) are guilty of not noticing the problem with @tambcat's post or glossing over it and not calling her out.
You're not the first to mention this. Let's not use the gifs as an excuse. The only people joking around and posting gifs are the WOC who sure as hell can do whatever they want in this thread. The topic has not lightened or devolved just because some of the WOC were able to laugh amongst this ridiculous mess.
Point of clarification - I'm not a WOC. I just like muscled naked men and hot women. ::no regrets chicken::
this makes me very sad. Honestly, and I say this as a fellow WOC and without snark. Give it up. This is not the place for you to try to connect emotionally or to attempt to forge bonds of friendship. I've been posting here for over 10 years, and have kept it light and simple for this reason. These aren't my friends, and it's obvious they aren't yours either. Thank God my parents taught me this early. Maybe yours did too, or maybe they didn't, but it's still the truth. There's a fundamental disconnect between white people and black people in this country that can't be repaired. This is all anyone really needs to know. Let these women get back to their circular thinking and navel gazing and try to have some lighthearted fun on another board. This isn't worth your time, tears, or energy.
connie0000, listen to 05heel and sfy on this one. They are very wise, and alway right on this point. It took me a long year, lots of hurt feelings, and physical exhaustion, for their words of truth to sink in. I'm young, and people usually can't tell me nothing, but I should've just listened.I'll save you the rollercoaster because you will most definitely wind up in the same spot, if you fight the wisdom every person of color knows, on some level, deep down. It's just not worth it.
I'm glad to see you agree, not because I like to be right (I know you can relate), but because I don't want to undermine your valid feelings or all of the effort you and others have made on these boards. I almost PM'ed you before I posted, but figured I could ask for forgiveness later if I truly offended you. :-) But seriously. After a time, you know almost immediately when you're dealing with a trustworthy white person. It takes no thought, discussion, apologies, callouts, or tears. I have a very full and happy life. Why would I take more than 10 seconds of my time to find yet another person to be bothered with when I don't need to. Nobody is that special.
Post by annieblah on Sept 10, 2016 22:32:34 GMT -5
Ally is probably the wrong word but we white people have to change ourselves and confront our fellow white countrymen. I also have to hope for my own chold (biracial, adopted) the he knows I will move mountains for him in his environment. I can't change the world but I can make sure people feel welcome and supported. It starts with him, then friends (who I hope know in would ride or die for), and finally my students know this. I think that is where the word ally comes in. Is not about me, but I truly think that is where that comes from. I hope this is making sense.
Tamb, you're doing a lot of responding to me when I'm not who you need to be speaking to. Several WOC posted here about how they felt about your actions/words/lack of/etc but you felt the need to keep reading and ignore them.
You have to admit your timing is suspect. It reads as if you jumped on @this when everyone else was a deflection from you. That was the moment you decided to (re)join the conversation.
I guess it looked like I was jumping on her, but I wasn't. Maybe I should have been? One thing I have tried not to do in this discussion is point out specks in other people's eyes when I have a giant log sticking out of my own. I thought I had answered the call to participate yesterday when I had posted. I am trying to contribute to a greater extent now. I have been out today but following this thread, even though there were times I thought to stay away for my own comfort or because it had devolved into other topics, but I kept coming back because ignoring it was clearly not the right course of action. If I had hoped the heat @this was taking would deflect any from me, I certainly wouldn't have posted in the middle of it.
mishy , I believe most had been more active in the thread that I had been. After stepping back, I do see that that was an odd post to jump back in with and made it appear that I was not taking the thread seriously. I'm sorry. I have a tendency to post something ridiculous or tangental when I'm uncomfortable.
That is the point here. It's not about your level of comfort. Acknowledging racism and your role in it is inherently uncomfortable. And it's the only thing that makes any tiny progress.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Tamb, you're doing a lot of responding to me when I'm not who you need to be speaking to. Several WOC posted here about how they felt about your actions/words/lack of/etc but you felt the need to keep reading and ignore them.
You have to admit your timing is suspect. It reads as if you jumped on @this when everyone else was a deflection from you. That was the moment you decided to (re)join the conversation.
I guess it looked like I was jumping on her, but I wasn't. Maybe I should have been? One thing I have tried not to do in this discussion is point out specks in other people's eyes when I have a giant log sticking out of my own. I thought I had answered the call to participate yesterday when I had posted. I am trying to contribute to a greater extent now. I have been out today but following this thread, even though there were times I thought to stay away for my own comfort or because it had devolved into other topics, but I kept coming back because ignoring it was clearly not the right course of action. If I had hoped the heat @this was taking would deflect any from me, I certainly wouldn't have posted in the middle of it.
mishy , I believe most had been more active in the thread that I had been. After stepping back, I do see that that was an odd post to jump back in with and made it appear that I was not taking the thread seriously. I'm sorry. I have a tendency to post something ridiculous or tangental when I'm uncomfortable.
Sorry I don't remember everyone who was posting at any given point in this thread.
Look, I will take my flames for defending stellas, not believing kirkette when she said she was targeted by booby, failing to recognize or point out microaggressions. I deserve those 100%. Defending stellas and not believing kirkette were my two biggest fuckups in my entire time here, and I have fucked up a lot. I have hurt a lot of people here and on TN. But damn if I'll be singled out for posting something irrelevent in a thread where people were repleatedly quoting a picture of a shirtless man and gossiping about who has committed sex acts while breastfeeding. I am not joining in on flaming of this or other people in this thread because I feel I am currently in no position to flame others for their racism or their silence. Obviously I am not without blame and have not been doing a good enough job speaking up myself. I will try to do better going forward but I don't feel like this particular thread is the place to do a 180. Like I said, it feels insencere.
Tamb, you're doing a lot of responding to me when I'm not who you need to be speaking to. Several WOC posted here about how they felt about your actions/words/lack of/etc but you felt the need to keep reading and ignore them.
You have to admit your timing is suspect. It reads as if you jumped on this when everyone else was a deflection from you. That was the moment you decided to (re)join the conversation. I guess it looked like I was jumping on her, but I wasn't. Maybe I should have been? One thing I have tried not to do in this discussion is point out specks in other people's eyes when I have a giant log sticking out of my own. I thought I had answered the call to participate yesterday when I had posted. I am trying to contribute to a greater extent now. I have been out today but following this thread, even though there were times I thought to stay away for my own comfort or because it had devolved into other topics, but I kept coming back because ignoring it was clearly not the right course of action. If I had hoped the heat this was taking would deflect any from me, I certainly wouldn't have posted in the middle of it.
mishy, I believe most had been more active in the thread that I had been. After stepping back, I do see that that was an odd post to jump back in with and made it appear that I was not taking the thread seriously. I'm sorry. I have a tendency to post something ridiculous or tangental when I'm uncomfortable.
Come on @tambcat this is a non-apology apology. Doubling down about the irrelevant post, having all the feels about how this is apology is about you is not an apology. As a poster here that has > 100,000 post count that is always on this board and only shows up when called out you can do so much better than this. Make an actual apology to the WOC on this board that is not about you.
Ally is probably the wrong word but we white people have to change ourselves and confront our fellow white countrymen. I also have to hope for my own chold (biracial, adopted) the he knows I will move mountains for him in his environment. I can't change the world but I can make sure people feel welcome and supported. It starts with him, then friends (who I hope know in would ride or die for), and finally my students know this. I think that is where the word ally comes in. Is not about me, but I truly think that is where that comes from. I hope this is making sense.
sure. I won't argue with your motives. Honestly. But the lesson I received from my parents, and how I'm raising my daughter, is that you will never (or rarely) feel welcomed or supported. Don't expect it, don't lower yourself to beg for it, don't get too excited when it happens. My only concern is for my black community and my place within it. That's my identity, and all of the above is the reason I hold my head high and proud every single day. I am truly unbothered by what you all are doing. I only feel affected when I see a fellow POC in pain because of it. Everything else is almost literally white noise. Again, I'm just one person, but you'll need to believe me when I say that this is how almost everyone else I know thinks. I wouldn't lie to you.
Post by pixy0stix on Sept 10, 2016 22:48:10 GMT -5
I still have no idea how the situation with booby and @kirkette evolved to where it did. It was 100% textbook bullying. For people who want to be super parents, it's a little disturbing that no one caught it earlier.
I also understand not trusting white women to be your friends. This is not validating your statements, because you don't need validating. Growing up I had a pretty tight group of friends where they (my friends) had to explain my (white) presence to their larger group of friends and family. No one outside my group trusted me. When you're constantly being shown the shittiest side of people, you're not going to open yourselves up to be hurt.
I guess I'm saying this because I'm sure there are some people reading and going in their heads -
But yet no one calls her out! Its the fangirl behavior that goes on time after time here. And this is not at you, this is at the entire group. THIS IS WHATS WRONG HERE!! Letting this shit slide is what makes me uncomfortable here. Jesus, its so so tiring. Everyone fawns all over a few posters while I'm here waving my arms and screaming who does no one see this??!!
Just letting this (and her!) behavior slide because posters are uncomfortable calling out someone who has over 100,000 god damn posts. Are people afraid the internet is going to hunt them down with pitchforks?
Why are people so damn afraid to confront her? This is not at you underwater. I'm so frustrated. And hurt. And now she will come in with some half ass comment about how is trying and has been for a year and blah blah blah and all is well here again.
I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I'm hurt and I'm sad. And I'm not hopeful things will change.
this makes me very sad. Honestly, and I say this as a fellow WOC and without snark. Give it up. This is not the place for you to try to connect emotionally or to attempt to forge bonds of friendship. I've been posting here for over 10 years, and have kept it light and simple for this reason. These aren't my friends, and it's obvious they aren't yours either. Thank God my parents taught me this early. Maybe yours did too, or maybe they didn't, but it's still the truth. There's a fundamental disconnect between white people and black people in this country that can't be repaired. This is all anyone really needs to know. Let these women get back to their circular thinking and navel gazing and try to have some lighthearted fun on another board. This isn't worth your time, tears, or energy.
So very well said. My parents absolutely taught me this, but it's like I didn't believe them for some time. We all have to find our own way. But as I got older and more and more lately I'm realizing so how very true that lesson is.
lilchubbs thanks for bringing this up and being kind when I know it is not deserved on my part!
Well, I think most people deserve kindness in general, even if they behave badly (not saying you have), but this is probably on account of my profession. It is painful on a personal level to have had my concerns or the concerns of loved ones dismissed. I remember my sister was 10 the first time someone told her that someone "didn't mean it that way" when one of the white students suggested that the black custodian had stolen the teacher's keys. And this stuff is so ingrained and so pervasive in everything about American culture, it's a tragedy, really. My own little girl was told by one of her best friends that her skin is ugly because she is not white. A 5 year old kid, and I know she didn't learn that from her parents. It's in the daily, minute-by-minute messages in everything in American culture. I'm willing to bet that the majority of people on this board wouldn't dismiss the tears in my daughter's eyes, so it baffles me how we get to a place when we dismiss it in adults. I've said this before somewhere on these boards, I think, but I'll say it again--and I can only speak for me. I prefer people to engage honestly in the conversation rather than sit silently worrying they may say the wrong thing. We all say the wrong thing sometimes but 99% of the time if we're open and honest and willing to hear someone else's voice, we have a chance to right the wrong. And the point of talking about white privilege or white fragility or any of this isn't to make white people feel badly or guilty or ashamed, although those feelings sometimes come along with it. It is to bring to light the systems that keep us on unequal footing so that we can challenge and change the system.
Also, while I'm here, I'll just say that it really irks me to keep reading the "listen and learn" stuff for real. This is such a passive stance on an issue where we need you to be active. Don't just listen and learn. Challenge yourself. Push yourself. Explore the world and perspectives outside of your own. Don't sit in your bubbles fanning yourself at the injustice of it all or standing in bewilderment because the problem is so big and you don't know what to do to change it and then turn around and go back to your regularly scheduled programming. You can't change the whole thing, but you sure as hell can change your role in it and possibly the role of the people around you as well. As posters have said, it's a matter of life or death for us, and not just because our kids might be shot or unjustly thrown in jail or wrongly accused of a crime. This stuff affects the physical and mental health of the people of color in this country. Look up the effects of racial trauma and then ask yourself if your silence and comfort is worth the damage to an entire group of people. (and now I'll go back to my usual lurking)
Like, really white people. Just knock it off. Or not, I really don't care. But some of you are deluding yourselves if you honestly think most black people are just out here dying for "white allies". I know a lot of very black people. 98.756% give as many fucks about you as you've demonstrated to give about them. You're embarrassing yourselves. My views sound extreme here, but they really aren't outside of the UMC echo chamber of this board. This shit is ridiculous.
Are you directing this at Tami Taylor?
nope. I honestly don't care enough about what any of you are doing on this front, individually or collectively, to name names. Besides, don't you think I would actually call someone out by name if I meant to? Come on now.
Like, really white people. Just knock it off. Or not, I really don't care. But some of you are deluding yourselves if you honestly think most black people are just out here dying for "white allies". I know a lot of very black people. 98.756% give as many fucks about you as you've demonstrated to give about them. You're embarrassing yourselves. My views sound extreme here, but they really aren't outside of the UMC echo chamber of this board. This shit is ridiculous.
Are you directing this at Tami Taylor?
If she is, so what. I don't think anyone is dying for my help. After years and years of POC feeling like they have to worry about themselves because no one else will; it's probably valid feeling on her end. I will never fully understand what WOC go through and I don't want to pretend like I do. I just say what I feel like is right in then moment and try to do my best and what I think is the right thing to do. I hope that came out the way I intended it to.
@tambcat you've missed the point of mishy 's post. Read it again and answer the question.
Some were women of color.
Ok.
So let me repost what you said, and you reread it, perhaps aloud, with this context.
But damn if I'll be singled out for posting something irrelevent in a thread where people were repleatedly quoting a picture of a shirtless man and gossiping about who has committed sex acts while breastfeeding.
Keep in mind WOC's exhaustion, hurt, and insight that there's really no fucking way the majority of their effort will make any ounce of difference here. Think about dealing with this 57 page thread EVERY DAY. These posts are not irrelevant; they are coping methods and a way to get some relief from the CONSTANT oppression. And white posters who were engaged in the "irrelevant" conversations were doing so WITH, rather than separately from, WOC.
I am doing my damnedest to do better but even so, I will never ever get it fully - and to be honest, I don't know if my sensitive white ass would be able to handle getting it fully. I made missteps myself in this thread alone - including liking your Lucille Bluth comment, not even considering calling you out on it, and posting some irrelevant and/or untimely comments. And even so, I get to feel like the kid who feels pretty great about a C- on a test because only 10 got As or Bs, but 200 people failed. But in a class on why innocent people are targeted, killed, constantly seen, and made sure to be informed they are seen, as less than, due to the color of their skin, a C- doesn't fucking cut it. And if you (collective) don't prioritize doing well in this class for the value of the content and not for the grade or sake of appearances, then you (again, collective) fail at being a decent human being.
So please, if the worst thing that happens to you in this thread is that you get "singled out" for posting something irrelevant, don't sweat it. Because if you sincerely want to do better and are willing to put in a lot of hard work, getting upset by this will only get in your way and make it that much harder.
But yet no one calls her out! Its the fangirl behavior that goes on time after time here. And this is not at you, this is at the entire group. THIS IS WHATS WRONG HERE!! Letting this shit slide is what makes me uncomfortable here. Jesus, its so so tiring. Everyone fawns all over a few posters while I'm here waving my arms and screaming who does no one see this??!!
Just letting this (and her!) behavior slide because posters are uncomfortable calling out someone who has over 100,000 god damn posts. Are people afraid the internet is going to hunt them down with pitchforks?
Why are people so damn afraid to confront her? This is not at you underwater. I'm so frustrated. And hurt. And now she will come in with some half ass comment about how is trying and has been for a year and blah blah blah and all is well here again.
I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I'm hurt and I'm sad. And I'm not hopeful things will change.
this makes me very sad. Honestly, and I say this as a fellow WOC and without snark. Give it up. This is not the place for you to try to connect emotionally or to attempt to forge bonds of friendship. I've been posting here for over 10 years, and have kept it light and simple for this reason. These aren't my friends, and it's obvious they aren't yours either. Thank God my parents taught me this early. Maybe yours did too, or maybe they didn't, but it's still the truth. There's a fundamental disconnect between white people and black people in this country that can't be repaired. This is all anyone really needs to know. Let these women get back to their circular thinking and navel gazing and try to have some lighthearted fun on another board. This isn't worth your time, tears, or energy.
05heel I mean this with no snark whatsoever. Do you think this can or will ever get better in the future?
Here's the sobering thing. This is being called out now but the rest of us (white posters) either saw her as being micro aggressive and chose to do nothing (because she's so popular?) or simply did not see anything wrong with what she was saying.
We can all pile on her now but if this has been an ongoing issue, where the fuck have we been? Has literally any white person here called her on being microaggressive before today?
I continue to be amazed by my complete inability to recognize micro aggressions when they're right in front of my face. In reading kirkettes post, I can now think of several similar instances where I was personally offensive. I spent a long time last night thinking about how my first response to kirkettes plea in January was to be defensive and dismissive.
Let's not congratulate ourselves on being better than This.
Thanks jenny1980. This is so, so true. It's not that I've let things go without saying anything, it's that I've missed so many microaggressions in the first place.
In grad school we were really pushed to "assume positive intent" with clients in all situations, and not jump to negative conclusions or assumptions. But I step back here and see clearly I have NOT assumed positive intent with everyone. I have been (am) racist, classist, quick to look down on many because I have seen myself as one of the "enlightened liberals." The education I've received here regarding race issues is far more than I received in 2 years in my masters in social work program.
I'm here. At my school, we talk a lot about "intent" vs. "impact." The speaker's intent might have been pure. But the speaker's lack of awareness about the impact (often) demonstrates privilege. Doing the work to understand how our everyday interactions are rooted in privilege, and then how we affect those around us, is necessary. And hard. It requires a level of introspection and humility that is pretty damn uncomfortable. And yet, still needed.
Thanks jenny1980 . This is so, so true. It's not that I've let things go without saying anything, it's that I've missed so many microaggressions in the first place.
But let's be honest, at least for me, I am sure I have missed a lot, but I've also let a lot go because I don't want to be the one to confront, both here and in real life.
I don't typically have a hard time addressing them in real life. That is, the ones I recognize. I fully acknowledge that there are many I don't notice. I need to do better there.
Here, I often don't address what I DO notice because they've already been addressed. I'm on late, I'm tired, and someone else has called them out. I get lazy. It's not ok. And, of course, there are those I don't even notice...
I feel like a do call people out on things more IRL, but I also find that the things j see IRL are more blatant and obvious. I will admit that I do miss a lot of microaggressions, both her and IRL.
The hardest thing for me right now is trying to figure out my place in my new city and address all this racism that I see. So many people are "not racist" when dealing with patients/the public, and then behind closed doors they are completely different people.
I have started speaking up more so since this post started and I think some people will never change. But it has brought about a few awkward conversations between me and some coworkers but that's ok. I'm coming to realize that just because a conversation is awkward doesn't mean it doesn't have to be had.
And yes, to all the people that are still asking what they can do, STOP asking, and just be a better person and try and learn from your mistakes and the mistakes that you see others making.
Finally caught up again. This thread has been heavy on my mind this weekend and that was a whole lot more to process there.
That last exchange between 05heel and @kirkette just made my heart hurt.
It should have, because it's awful. And it made me feel like shit. I've had this same conversation too many times, with too many people, and it sucks. Hell, I have had to do it at actual BLM meetings. Think about that for a minute. I'm the black ally counterpart to your white allies, I suppose.
Anyway, just go ahead and notice that after 58 pages, it circled right back around to POC being hurt. That's the kind of "progress" your empty words and foolishness achieves. I swear on everything that you all have not and can not hurt my feelings, so please stop apologizing to me. Go white ally in private and for the 1,000th time, just be better. Or pretend to be better. That's my final word in this mess. Sorry to have spoiled your White Panther party.
Post by sewpinkgal on Sept 11, 2016 0:15:03 GMT -5
05heel - My instinct is to want to apologize, but I will hold my tongue there. What you expressed both to me above and directly to @kirkette is horrible and it absolutely shouldn't be this way, not that you need me to state the obvious. Kirkette is an IRL friend and the fact that she and others are continually getting hit in these threads is beyond words.
I don't go here, but I lurked this thread after it was posted on ML. I can't begin comprehend the pain WOC feel, whether it be on this board or IRL due to all the shady shit they have to put up with, every single day. As a white skinned Latina, it's easy for me to skate by and keep my head down and not have to deal with any of it. I want our community to be a caring, comforting resource to women of all races, but time and time again, asses are shown for the heinous bitches they are. I don't really know what the point of me chiming in was, more listening and learning bullshit, I guess. I just hope to be of some support to the WOC in this community. When they hurt, my heart hurts with them.
I keep saying the word "community" in my stupid rambling. And I really feel we are, we are here for the tears and the laughs and celebrations of all the women here. As a community we should hold each other up, not tear each other down. Why is this so hard for you assholes to do? Why is it so hard not hurt others and try to be cognizant of how others may feel? Why is it so hard to be inclusive?
Fuck. I guess I'm navel gazing, too. But shit man. This is beyond disappointing. Mean girl bullshit.
But yet no one calls her out! Its the fangirl behavior that goes on time after time here. And this is not at you, this is at the entire group. THIS IS WHATS WRONG HERE!! Letting this shit slide is what makes me uncomfortable here. Jesus, its so so tiring. Everyone fawns all over a few posters while I'm here waving my arms and screaming who does no one see this??!!
Just letting this (and her!) behavior slide because posters are uncomfortable calling out someone who has over 100,000 god damn posts. Are people afraid the internet is going to hunt them down with pitchforks?
Why are people so damn afraid to confront her? This is not at you underwater. I'm so frustrated. And hurt. And now she will come in with some half ass comment about how is trying and has been for a year and blah blah blah and all is well here again.
I'm tired. I'm exhausted. I'm hurt and I'm sad. And I'm not hopeful things will change.
this makes me very sad. Honestly, and I say this as a fellow WOC and without snark. Give it up. This is not the place for you to try to connect emotionally or to attempt to forge bonds of friendship. I've been posting here for over 10 years, and have kept it light and simple for this reason. These aren't my friends, and it's obvious they aren't yours either. Thank God my parents taught me this early. Maybe yours did too, or maybe they didn't, but it's still the truth. There's a fundamental disconnect between white people and black people in this country that can't be repaired. This is all anyone really needs to know. Let these women get back to their circular thinking and navel gazing and try to have some lighthearted fun on another board. This isn't worth your time, tears, or energy.
I had to pretty much stop reading this thread for a couple reasons: one, because it became about too much backstory on MMM and how people parent and all, and I don't care about the backstory on MMM, and how people parent and all, which is why I don't read this board lol (I was here for the call-out about people being racist and getting caught, not really who co-sleeps or whatever the hell, but I understand why "the purge" was happening); and two, because the former made me realize that many of the WOC who post here were actually quite hurt and I found that sad . Sad for their feelings of hurt and betrayal and sad because they really bought in to the dream. It's a nice dream, but IMO, it's still a dream.
The reason that I am able to enjoy this board so much and have so many posters who I like and even respect, is because it's all very surface. I've never dug deep or asked their opinion on truly substantive matters, which if I knew their true thoughts, would invariably disappoint me. We don't hang out in real life, we don't talk on the phone, we're not connected on my IG. I could walk away from this board tomorrow like Keyser Soze . I have been on some form of the Knot, Nest, GBCN for over 10 years also, but like I said the other day, I am under no illusions that IRL, the vast majority of the women I enjoy on here would cross the street to avoid my DS on a dark night. I do not blame most white people specifically for this fact, the socialization behind white privilege and POC as an inferior and/or people to be feared is real. It's as real as--and unfortunately, works in tandem with--white fragility. But that is also why I'm VERY clear on how far most of these relationships can go and I'm sorry for those who were/are unaware of that. In that sense, I think 05heel and I are in the small (perhaps two person lol) minority on this board. Most of the WOC who post here are able to do so and overlook the micro and outright aggressions here because they live very integrated lives and sadly, it's not new to them. For me, this is a window into a world I generally do not see, because my life is so segregated. So I'm able to overlook it and be completely unbothered, because tbh, I expect even shadier shit than what has actually transpired (and believe that it's happening anyway, but hasn't yet been revealed lol).
I don't need white allies. I don't care about white allies. But I agree with whomever said up thread that it's not hard to see who cares truly and who doesn't, so the rest should really stop even bothering with the lip service. The best thing white people can do for me is to check their racist cousins, their privilege and try to do better when they raise their children (all of which, I think this board has shown, are likely an abject failures) and stay out of positions of authority over POC like policing diverse neighborhoods. Note that the latter is the only I truly care about. Otherwise, you guys could form a klan board over to the left and the best I'd be able to muster is a Kanye shrug. I also don't care what white people think about things that I do. Guess what? I spanked my kid, if he were a girl, I would have pierced his ears at a baby, and he has an ethnic name. *gasp* Luckily, I always think whatever I'm doing is the hottest shit going , so none of the judgment on here would bother me (if I'd ever posted on a parenting board which I wouldn't lol). But I am very sorry for those who were hurt by this. The pain shines through very clearly in this thread and that saddens me, which is why I'd decided I wasn't going to throw up any more gifs in here. And this will be my only thoughtful post in this thread because it's nonsense. This board is unworthy of the value that the WOC brought to it.
@idaholakelady, I think your right. A lot of time I just don't see it. I mean some of the stuff is easy to me (folks complaining about neighborhoods or schools) but some of it is a lot harder (like the discipline posts). One of the things I have to do in real life is really take take to say stuff over in my head before I say it out loud. This is something I need to do here as well.
I'm not trying to single you out, Kari. And I should probably read through to the end (2 or 3 more pages?) before posting, but you just articulated the reason I am sitting here angry as all hell and drinking lots of whiskey, trying to drown my feelings. Because the fact is that I have a running list in my head of all the things posters have blithely said that I found to be clueless and offensive as all hell, including some posters in this thread. And I am pretty sure that they would never in a million years perceive it as offensive. Yet when I've tried to point it out, gently, because I didn't wake up and realize until this week that gently doesn't mean shit, I get nothing. (Although I will say that I did once receive a PM from @this acknowledging that she had no idea her words could be read the way I read them and that she was sorry.)
I don't know what I am trying to get across, but yeah, just think for a minute before you post. And for god's sake, do not jump all over someone for being "too sensitive" or for reading intent into words that was not there. It doesn't matter if you "meant it that way" or not. And I'm applying this to myself, lest you think I'm trying to pretend I am enlightened. I'm still mortified by some of the strongly held opinions I had, and probably expressed, about different parenting issues before I read some other perspectives on this board.
For fucking sure going forward, instead of using the "why would you say that" or "that's not what you meant, is it?" Tactic, I'm going to say, "that was a pretty shitty thing to say." I would advise the women of this board to consider adopting a similar policy.
Yes I think one of the most important things I have learned is that when someone is offended by what I said it doesn't matter if I consciencely meant it that way. I hurt someone and I need to apologize and recognize.
Post by noodleskooze on Sept 11, 2016 6:53:57 GMT -5
sfy I personally appreciate your time coming here to add your thoughts. We don't deserve them, and you shouldn't have to explain or guide us. But I really value your opinion. same with connie0000. I 1000% support you seeing and deciding this is no place for you. I have fault in that. I hope my interactions with you both don't end, and I'm sorry it took me so long to step out of my fragile bubble in the first place.
sfy I personally appreciate your time coming here to add your thoughts. We don't deserve them, and you shouldn't have to explain or guide us. But I really value your opinion. same with connie0000. I 1000% support you seeing and deciding this is no place for you. I have fault in that. I hope my interactions with you both don't end, and I'm sorry it took me so long to step out of my fragile bubble in the first place.
No problem. I don't feel much differently about anyone here than I did before this. It's a place for me because I'm not personally vested and as a general rule of thumb, I expect white people to be racist, whether that translates to burning crosses on lawns, lynchings, not promoting POC, getting nervous when they're alone on an elevator with a couple black people, not wanting their kids to go to a predominantly POC school, trying to play the role of white savior or just not speaking up when they hear something shady. That's my expectation so the most emotion I can work up about any of this is, "oh wow, that's disappointing." The only way I could have felt personally affected or offended by any of this is if I had expected better or thought otherwise. These threads have just been white people being white people to me.