Catching up after not being on for a couple days and I am sure I am forgetting like a million things I want to say.
But what jenny1980 said about all of us playing a role in the microaggressions is so true. I still don't remember the AMA post, but I can only imagine what happened. That being said, I can guarantee there were some here and did I see them or say anything? No. That's on me and no one else.
I still have a few pages to go, but I did not want to miss saying that.
If you've read the thread like you said you've had, you can plainly see I've been here the whole time.
Sorry I don't remember everyone who was posting at any given point in this thread.
Look, I will take my flames for defending stellas, not believing kirkette when she said she was targeted by booby, failing to recognize or point out microaggressions. I deserve those 100%. Defending stellas and not believing kirkette were my two biggest fuckups in my entire time here, and I have fucked up a lot. I have hurt a lot of people here and on TN. But damn if I'll be singled out for posting something irrelevent in a thread where people were repleatedly quoting a picture of a shirtless man and gossiping about who has committed sex acts while breastfeeding. I am not joining in on flaming of @this or other people in this thread because I feel I am currently in no position to flame others for their racism or their silence. Obviously I am not without blame and have not been doing a good enough job speaking up myself. I will try to do better going forward but I don't feel like this particular thread is the place to do a 180. Like I said, it feels insencere.
Why is this your takeaway and why are you using it as your excuse for why you've been mostly absent? There has been a lot of conversation in here and very minimal of the bolded.
It seems like a fake apology when you post the bolded and then follow it up with "I'm not without blame". Own your mistakes. We should all do the same.
ETA: I see now after a couple more pages this has been covered.
My mom is also a prime example of what white liberal upper-middle class racists look like and the type of person I suspect many of us were raised by and - in fact - are ourselves.
Her entire life she's done everything she can to shy away from debate. She hates conflict, so if she doesn't agree with you, she typically will change the topic or walk away. Her best friend is black and she loves her, and so she would tell you that is evidence she is not racist. But she wears her friendship as a badge of honor (which is gross) and she also wouldn't speak up when her other friends say racist.
That is no excuse. She grew up in the 50s and 60s and she would call herself a liberal and and equal rights advocate, but she's microagressive as shit and buys heavily into the colorblind thing.
And she's silent in the face of racism. She wants everyone to like her and so she doesn't speak up.
This is racism, folks. I love the shit out of my mom and she has a huge heart and would never intentionally hurt anyone, but that's what this is.
I also want to be liked, but I'd rather stand on the right side of history here. So I try to step outside what is comfortable and safe. But there is always room to do it more often.
** underwaterrhymes I took out parts of your post from last night because it spoke very much to me as I feel that I play the same role as your mom in being a people pleaser. It's easier for me to walk away from discussions, to look at people like they are crazy or to ignore the topic as much as possible to keep an easy flow. That is completely a privilege I have as a white woman living in a predominantly white state where microagressions happen daily. I need to do better.
Like, really white people. Just knock it off. Or not, I really don't care. But some of you are deluding yourselves if you honestly think most black people are just out here dying for "white allies". I know a lot of very black people. 98.756% give as many fucks about you as you've demonstrated to give about them. You're embarrassing yourselves. My views sound extreme here, but they really aren't outside of the UMC echo chamber of this board. This shit is ridiculous.
Are you directing this at Tami Taylor?
It's funny you asked this because I just read it and thought "I wonder if she means anyone specific" (I have read the response below and see the answer is no)
In THIS thread of all places about how white people are failing and in response to THAT post about how we aren't all "friends" the way people act like we are and how the result of that is pain for WOC, my first thought was a philosophical musing about which specific people might have inspired a response that is plainly about all of us (all of us white women, that is).
I really don't even know what to say. My heart hurts. I've read this from beginning to end and right now I just want to give so many people hugs. Not the point I know. Nor would they be wanted. I'm just so disappointed that we (white people) aren't going any better in the year 2016.
I've enjoyed my interactions with many on this board and hope to continue interacting with y'all in other places. Others have disappointed me.
You, sfy, & 05heel really put it into perspective for me to be honest. I have a full life outside of this bubble with real friends & family that give me & my nuclear family the support we need. Like @kirkette said, I have been able to weed out the people who don't have good intentions really easily in person. I never thought I'm making true friends here (although I've been lucky enough to make a few & they know who they are). I think the slap in the face for me was the vulnerable aspect of being a fairly new mom and actually using this place as to bounce off ideas and questions. Being a mom is hard by itself. I have never shyed (is that a word?) away from talking about the difficulties I've had adjusting emotionally to raising children. That is probably stupid on my part. That I let myself be open in a "not safe space" even though I knew that from the beginning. I will not be doing that anymore. It's not that I was emotionally invested in people here. *I'M* just in an emotional state right now, if that makes sense? I probably wouldn't be so hurt if I wasn't 4 months postpartum w a clear head.
you already know this, but I feel the same way. I'm just a ball of emotions lately, and this *waves hand around* is just the cherry on top.
honestly, I feel stupid. like others have said, there are a select few that I adore and trust, but for the most part it's the same ol' shit around here. I have let it affect me far too much IRL, and I just feel like an idiot for that. I'm thankful for you, 05heel and sfy, and all my other WOC, for continuing to remind me to adjust my expectations and be here for what it is: some laughs and a place to waste time. to be honest, I DON'T have many WOC friends IRL, but that's more because I am a super awkward being and don't have many friends, period, IRL lol.
it's all just...hitting me on a lot of levels, especially growing up the way I have. I don't know why I've put up with so much of the nonsense here, when I would curse my white mama out in real life if she acted at ignorant as so many of the people here. (lol! that's a damn lie, i would never even let the thought of raising my voice to her cross my mind because SHE MIGHT KNOW lolol!) you know what I mean. this is a hard journey.
Exactly. Don't get sucked into the frenzy of "we're really like a little family and generous community" comments that occur when a member needs support. It's nice, but that clearly doesn't apply to everyone. I think of it as a child's birthday party. As in, yes those are some nice presents over there, but they're not for you. We're here for the cake, games, and maybe a bag of cheap favors, and then we're going home.
I think all I feel is shame at this point and a desire to become a better person. It is not okay that so many WOC have been hurt time and time again on this board. We have to do better. Stop listening and learning. You've had plenty of time to learn. It's time to start putting that into action and stop being a group of assholes. That goes for me too.
Post by whereintheworld on Sept 11, 2016 9:28:23 GMT -5
This has been eye-opening for me as a white woman living in a very multi-cultural city (Toronto). I like to think that being around other cultures has made me sensitive but I still grew up in my bubble of privilege. I work at our major University with medical students and in a class of 259 this year we have ONE incoming black student. We have a 'community of support' for our MD students of colour in the 4 years of the program and it is 15 people. Shameful. When our incoming student learned the demographic of the class year she hung her head and said 'I don't want to be the only one.' It was such a wake up call. I was raised to be colourblind but I can see how ridiculous that is now. Her life experience is different than mine even though we're in the same city interacting with the same people. The other 200+ white students don't have that 'only one' sinking feeling. I feel gross for patting myself on the back for a single second to think I work for a progressive Institution that has diversity outreach programs. Clearly not fucking enough, and I have a lot of work to do starting with my own attitudes and self-congratulation. I promise to the WOC here your words are heard and I know as a white woman we/I have a LOT of fucking work to do.
you already know this, but I feel the same way. I'm just a ball of emotions lately, and this *waves hand around* is just the cherry on top.
honestly, I feel stupid. like others have said, there are a select few that I adore and trust, but for the most part it's the same ol' shit around here. I have let it affect me far too much IRL, and I just feel like an idiot for that. I'm thankful for you, 05heel and sfy , and all my other WOC, for continuing to remind me to adjust my expectations and be here for what it is: some laughs and a place to waste time. to be honest, I DON'T have many WOC friends IRL, but that's more because I am a super awkward being and don't have many friends, period, IRL lol.
it's all just...hitting me on a lot of levels, especially growing up the way I have. I don't know why I've put up with so much of the nonsense here, when I would curse my white mama out in real life if she acted at ignorant as so many of the people here. (lol! that's a damn lie, i would never even let the thought of raising my voice to her cross my mind because SHE MIGHT KNOW lolol!) you know what I mean. this is a hard journey.
You know what pisses me the fuck off the most? EVERYONE walked around on fucking eggshells when @starry was PP. All she EVER fucking does is complain. I asked her if she thought she had PPD bc ALL SHE DOES IS COMPLAIN and I got yelled at for asking. HOW DARE I ask her during such a delicate state.
But me and you, a few months PP? Fuck us, right?Â
I know this isn't the point, and I don't remember any of this, but why is it so bad to ask someone? Unless you walked in guns blazing telling her she was a shitty mom and needed to get her PPD checked out I don't see what happened to make this bad. I flat out asked on here if what I was going through could be PPD because some people don't recognize it in themselves. Sometimes we need that outside perspective to tell us to get checked out and make sure we're ok. It's ok to ask for help, and it's ok for others to check in with us to make sure we're truly ok. I know it's a sensitive subject, but it's a very real, very scary thing.
I doubt it was directed at anyone specific. It just happens to be real life. I think that the majority of people on this board believe that most black people are hoping for white allies. What 05heel is saying to you (all), is please don't make the mistake of believing that outside of this GBCN world--where, again, many of the WOC here lead very white integrated lives (which is why they're even able to post here, because I promise you that 95% of the women on my predominantly AA board would not want to post here and if they did, would not last a day)--that most black people want, care about having, or even give any thought to white allies. To tell yourselves otherwise is to be VERY clueless about how most black people think about most white people.
This is some basic shit. You are going up against years and years and years AND MORE YEARS of microaggressions, blatant racist behavior and an endless list of actual shit. So I am not sure why anyone is shocked or up in their own feelings that WOC have said they don't trust white people here or IRL and aren't here for deep friendships. That's your cross to bear. Fucking deal with it. Excuse me while I don't cry for you.
Maybe it will eventually happen. Maybe you will eventually build trust and a friendship with one of these women just like other relationships you have in your life. But quit acting like you can say enough of the right things and the pretty words all will be right. Life doesn't work that way. Let it happen (or not) naturally. Because when you try to force it and make it happen right now and focus on how you feel about those statements it just reinforces the reasons for the initial statement.
I told myself I wouldn't come back in here because while I adore many of these women who have been affected, I'm not a regular here and I don't know enough about specifics to weigh in beyond generalities, which I've already done. But come on. This was only ever a safe space and community/family if you were white and popular. Quit seeking validation and putting the onus on the WOC - once again - to reassure you that you aren't one of the bad ones. Spoiler alert: you are. Quit trying to take the easy way out so you can move on and feel better. Move on and feel badly because maybe that will help you do better instead of feeling better, which is nonsense and all about YOU.
This is some basic shit. You are going up against years and years and years AND MORE YEARS of microaggressions, blatant racist behavior and an endless list of actual shit. So I am not sure why anyone is shocked or up in their own feelings that WOC have said they don't trust white people here or IRL and aren't here for deep friendships. That's your cross to bear. Fucking deal with it. Excuse me while I don't cry for you.
Maybe it will eventually happen. Maybe you will eventually build trust and a friendship with one of these women just like other relationships you have in your life. But quit acting like you can say enough of the right things and the pretty words all will be right. Life doesn't work that way. Let it happen (or not) naturally. Because when you try to force it and make it happen right now and focus on how you feel about those statements it just reinforces the reasons for the initial statement.
I told myself I wouldn't come back in here because while I adore many of these women who have been affected, I'm not a regular here and I don't know enough about specifics to weigh in beyond generalities, which I've already done. But come on. This was only ever a safe space and community/family if you were white and popular. Quit seeking validation and putting the onus on the WOC - once again - to reassure you that you aren't one of the bad ones. Spoiler alert: you are. Quit trying to take the easy way out so you can move on and feel better. Move on and feel badly because maybe that will help you do better instead of feeling better, which is nonsense and all about YOU.
I kept trying to come up with the words to express what you've just said but couldn't explain it further than "it's not about you" since my brain is in such a fog today. Thank you for putting my exact thoughts into writing.
This is some basic shit. You are going up against years and years and years AND MORE YEARS of microaggressions, blatant racist behavior and an endless list of actual shit. So I am not sure why anyone is shocked or up in their own feelings that WOC have said they don't trust white people here or IRL and aren't here for deep friendships. That's your cross to bear. Fucking deal with it. Excuse me while I don't cry for you.
Maybe it will eventually happen. Maybe you will eventually build trust and a friendship with one of these women just like other relationships you have in your life. But quit acting like you can say enough of the right things and the pretty words all will be right. Life doesn't work that way. Let it happen (or not) naturally. Because when you try to force it and make it happen right now and focus on how you feel about those statements it just reinforces the reasons for the initial statement.
I told myself I wouldn't come back in here because while I adore many of these women who have been affected, I'm not a regular here and I don't know enough about specifics to weigh in beyond generalities, which I've already done. But come on. This was only ever a safe space and community/family if you were white and popular. Quit seeking validation and putting the onus on the WOC - once again - to reassure you that you aren't one of the bad ones. Spoiler alert: you are. Quit trying to take the easy way out so you can move on and feel better. Move on and feel badly because maybe that will help you do better instead of feeling better, which is nonsense and all about YOU.
I kept trying to come up with the words to express what you've just said but couldn't explain it further than "it's not about you" since my brain is in such a fog today. Thank you for putting my exact thoughts into writing.Â
Yes I've been stewing over this since last night. I've seen both 05heel and sfy post similar statements in the past and I admit that the first time I saw those sentiments expressed I was like "but I love them why don't they love meeeeeeee?" But I didn't post that back then because I'm a grown up capable of self reflection and a large quantity of natural shame so I don't generally post my basic childish feelings/reactions.
Instead, I thought about it. And looked in the goddamn mirror and said its not about you and when I took a moment to think about it - seriously just read it and thought about it - it's entirely understandable and fucking deserved.
I don't want or need any apologies either. I actually don't expect any of you to do any better. I never have and never will let my guard down. More than anything I just want y'all (white people) to know that WE (WOC) have always caught on and are aware of your true feelings and interactions. We roll our eyes when you say stuff like PG County isn't a good place to live (was it ssmjlm? can't remember) or that you don't want to go to ATL during SpelHouse's homecoming (zarapipe, remember that one?). And those aren't even the slick ones. Those are so obvious.
I said some parts were not good. I don't remember it being an issue, maybe it was. But yes I was part of that conversation.
I don't want or need any apologies either. I actually don't expect any of you to do any better. I never have and never will let my guard down. More than anything I just want y'all (white people) to know that WE (WOC) have always caught on and are aware of your true feelings and interactions. We roll our eyes when you say stuff like PG County isn't a good place to live (was it ssmjlm? can't remember) or that you don't want to go to ATL during SpelHouse's homecoming (zarapipe, remember that one?). And those aren't even the slick ones. Those are so obvious.
I said some parts were not good. I don't remember it being an issue, maybe it was. But yes I was part of that conversation.
I'm sorry. I would really like to respond and not avoid them, but I don't know what they are.
This is a cop out. You're not sorry. If you genuinely want to respond and not avoid them you can start at page 1 and read the thread and find them. Or go to your notifications and look for your tags.
I don't want or need any apologies either. I actually don't expect any of you to do any better. I never have and never will let my guard down. More than anything I just want y'all (white people) to know that WE (WOC) have always caught on and are aware of your true feelings and interactions. We roll our eyes when you say stuff like PG County isn't a good place to live (was it ssmjlm ? can't remember) or that you don't want to go to ATL during SpelHouse's homecoming (zarapipe , remember that one?). And those aren't even the slick ones. Those are so obvious.
I said some parts were not good. I don't remember it being an issue, maybe it was. But yes I was part of that conversation.
You said, 'Yeah, you lost me at PG county, sorry.'
I kept trying to come up with the words to express what you've just said but couldn't explain it further than "it's not about you" since my brain is in such a fog today. Thank you for putting my exact thoughts into writing.
Yes I've been stewing over this since last night. I've seen both 05heel and sfy post similar statements in the past and I admit that the first time I saw those sentiments expressed I was like "but I love them why don't they love meeeeeeee?" But I didn't post that back then because I'm a grown up capable of self reflection and a large quantity of natural shame so I don't generally post my basic childish feelings/reactions.
Instead, I thought about it. And looked in the goddamn mirror and said its not about you and when I took a moment to think about it - seriously just read it and thought about it - it's entirely understandable and fucking deserved.
Right. It's like asking someone to once again reach into a pit of vipers saying "but only two or three are the biting kind!" - who would want to take that chance?
Thanks, @kirkette, for refreshing my memory re the old @this incident with my being a bitch eating crackers. That was some shit, eh? I now recall being like, "Huh? Who is this? [Literally, LOL at who is @this?!] And why am I BEC to her? We have never interacted with each other!" Race-related or not, that was some strange shit, and, as I often do, I chose to handle with humor because...really, who cares about this person I don't even know?
But, if you think about it some more, as you and others have pointed out, how big of a white privilege is it to go around calling out posters you don't even know as your personal BEC, particularly when said posters have never said or done a single thing against you? Like my mere existence was enough to irk her, and it was ok to voice that.
That's some shit alright.
Messy, indeed.
@natariru, when you come to our area, please do let me know. I'm sure you will be in contact with @kirkette, and she has all my info. I think you will enjoy meeting all of us locals (including wannabe, farmvillelover, sewpinkgal, starlily, insominac, etc.). We have quite a large network, but I'm just mentioning some of the OG folks who visit this particular board more often than others. We've been to each other's weddings. We've been to each other's baby showers. We've consoled each other at our low points.
Most of us happen to be WOC, and the ones who are not are honorary in my heart at least. (I have lovingly called sewpinkgal an "egg" on more than one occasion.)
I'm the opposite of sfy and 05heel in that I have truly made some deep and lasting IRL friendships here. I don't think there is a right or wrong strategy re developing relationships on this board, but I do consider myself extremely lucky because I happen to live close to these particular women. Would this have happened if I lived somewhere else? I don't know.
If I'm very honest with myself, the truth of the matter is that the majority of my friends (not my husband's friends) are indeed POC. This includes my former co-workers -- mostly Latinos and Asians. And the white folks are usually married to Asians. LOL. I don't know if this was a subconscious occurrence or a function of living where I live.
This is not to say I don't have white friends. I absolutely do. But there are fewer in the inner circle. (You are special, sewpinkgal!)
This is what I mean....these comments that are just thrown out casually, are indeed racist. And we (WOC) generally don't forget. I'm not on here 24/7, but the ones I catch, I don't forget. It just affirms what we already know, and that it's generally lip service coming from the vast majority of people.
I do apologize. My grandparents used to live near fedex field. After they were mugged a few times in their driveway it did change my perspective of that area. But that was 10 years ago and I need evaluate that opinion.
This is what I mean....these comments that are just thrown out casually, are indeed racist. And we (WOC) generally don't forget. I'm not on here 24/7, but the ones I catch, I don't forget. It just affirms what we already know, and that it's generally lip service coming from the vast majority of people.
I do apologize. My grandparents used to live near fedex field. After they were mugged a few times in their driveway it did change my perspective of that area. But that was 10 years ago and I need evaluate that opinion.
Let me spell it out for you.
You are doubling down on an offensive statement you made
Shit people on this board really hate PG county don't they, based on that old thread?
(I worked there for a year. I really liked it.)
Anyway ditto eclaires. I'm trying to refrain from too much navel gazing on here because this isn't about me, and it's not for me to use this thread to absolve myself of past transgressions.