IRL race conversations

[kicks]

Tagging sfy 05heel especially

I have a specific question that I hope you all can help me with but hopefully this can also just be a general conversation (or ranting session).

I mentioned that I hung out with a white friend this weekend who I think "gets it" relatively speaking. I had to join her and her roommate for brunch this weekend. But her roommate most definitely doesn't get it. I know my friend is somewhat aware of this because she told me before that her roommate didn't feel comfortable hanging out in Harlem. Eye roll.

Anyway, me and my friend then went and hung out with my cousin, his boyfriend and his friend all of whom are black. While we were hanging out she mentioned how she liked the movie Straight Outta Compton. I didn't think anything of it.

But last night she texted me asking if it was racist that she mentioned the movie and it's been bugging her and she was sorry.

I haven't replied yet. I really want to tell her that no I didn't find it offensive but your roommate sucks and I don't want to hang out with her anymore. But obviously she can't control her roommates thoughts or words and I don't really know what to say. She is pretty good friends with her roommate.

Thoughts?

[thejackpot]

The roommate mentioned the movie or your friend?

[DesertMoon]

Just be honest. Say I have no interest getting to know your roommate better. It isn't her fault, but you shouldn't have to spend your precious time with someone that you don't want to.

[sfy]

I feel like there are five different things happening in this story! I have mentioned that my husband is working with me because how I tend to handle racist comments is going off or sitting there, dumbfounded, with few occasions in between. In this case, I don't think what she said was racist (because...wuh...), but based on her question, it sounds like to me that she said it because she found herself in a group of black people and didn't know what to say/was looking for a way to connect, so she grasped for something and came up with Straight Outta Compton, which is killing me softly. Even more so when I consider that she has probably been thinking of this since this weekend and facepalming. So my husband's tactic, which I have mentioned before, is flipping questions on people. Now again, I don't think what she said was racist, obviously, but the fact that she even has to ask, makes me want to ask her, "Why do you ask?" Or even, "What specifically is bugging you--that you asked the question or your intent behind the question?" Not in a gotcha way, but a genuine do you feel uncomfortable in a group of mostly black people. That's something I think she should think about and if I could facilitate it, why not? I mean, since she wants to be sending texts requesting absolution and all.

After we got through that, I'd absolutely say to her, "This seems like a good time to broach the subject of X. I do find some of what she does/says/thinks offensive, and I'd prefer that you and I hang out without her moving forward." Done and done.

[kicks]

Sept 15, 2016 11:53:17 GMT -5 thejackpot said:

The roommate mentioned the movie or your friend?

No my friend mentioned she liked the movie.

Sorry my story is confusing, trying to type too quickly.

[kicks]

Sept 15, 2016 12:05:09 GMT -5 sfy said:

I feel like there are five different things happening in this story! I have mentioned that my husband is working with me because how I tend to handle racist comments is going off or sitting there, dumbfounded, with few occasions in between. In this case, I don't think what she said was racist (because...wuh...), but based on her question, it sounds like to me that she said it because she found herself in a group of black people and didn't know what to say/was looking for a way to connect, so she grasped for something and came up with Straight Outta Compton, which is killing me softly. Even more so when I consider that she has probably been thinking of this since this weekend and facepalming. So my husband's tactic, which I have mentioned before, is flipping questions on people. Now again, I don't think what she said was racist, obviously, but the fact that she even has to ask, makes me want to ask her, "Why do you ask?" Or even, "What specifically is bugging you--that you asked the question or your intent behind the question?" Not in a gotcha way, but a genuine do you feel uncomfortable in a group of mostly black people. That's something I think she should think about and if I could facilitate it, why not? I mean, since she wants to be sending texts requesting absolution and all.

After we got through that, I'd absolutely say to her, "This seems like a good time to broach the subject of X. I do find some of what she does/says/thinks offensive, and I'd prefer that you and I hang out without her moving forward." Done and done.

This is perfect, thanks!

[05heel]

Sept 15, 2016 12:05:09 GMT -5 sfy said:

I feel like there are five different things happening in this story! I have mentioned that my husband is working with me because how I tend to handle racist comments is going off or sitting there, dumbfounded, with few occasions in between. In this case, I don't think what she said was racist (because...wuh...), but based on her question, it sounds like to me that she said it because she found herself in a group of black people and didn't know what to say/was looking for a way to connect, so she grasped for something and came up with Straight Outta Compton, which is killing me softly. Even more so when I consider that she has probably been thinking of this since this weekend and facepalming. So my husband's tactic, which I have mentioned before, is flipping questions on people. Now again, I don't think what she said was racist, obviously, but the fact that she even has to ask, makes me want to ask her, "Why do you ask?" Or even, "What specifically is bugging you--that you asked the question or your intent behind the question?" Not in a gotcha way, but a genuine do you feel uncomfortable in a group of mostly black people. That's something I think she should think about and if I could facilitate it, why not? I mean, since she wants to be sending texts requesting absolution and all.

After we got through that, I'd absolutely say to her, "This seems like a good time to broach the subject of X. I do find some of what she does/says/thinks offensive, and I'd prefer that you and I hang out without her moving forward." Done and done.

Exactly this.  I'd also want to examine why your friend is so close with the roommate who is racist enough in front of you that you feel uncomfortable.  Oh, to be a fly on those walls when you're not around, because you know shit is flying around unchecked. 

[kicks]

Sept 15, 2016 12:17:58 GMT -5 05heel said:

Sept 15, 2016 12:05:09 GMT -5 sfy said:

I feel like there are five different things happening in this story! I have mentioned that my husband is working with me because how I tend to handle racist comments is going off or sitting there, dumbfounded, with few occasions in between. In this case, I don't think what she said was racist (because...wuh...), but based on her question, it sounds like to me that she said it because she found herself in a group of black people and didn't know what to say/was looking for a way to connect, so she grasped for something and came up with Straight Outta Compton, which is killing me softly. Even more so when I consider that she has probably been thinking of this since this weekend and facepalming. So my husband's tactic, which I have mentioned before, is flipping questions on people. Now again, I don't think what she said was racist, obviously, but the fact that she even has to ask, makes me want to ask her, "Why do you ask?" Or even, "What specifically is bugging you--that you asked the question or your intent behind the question?" Not in a gotcha way, but a genuine do you feel uncomfortable in a group of mostly black people. That's something I think she should think about and if I could facilitate it, why not? I mean, since she wants to be sending texts requesting absolution and all.

After we got through that, I'd absolutely say to her, "This seems like a good time to broach the subject of X. I do find some of what she does/says/thinks offensive, and I'd prefer that you and I hang out without her moving forward." Done and done.

Exactly this.  I'd also want to examine why your friend is so close with the roommate who is racist enough in front of you that you feel uncomfortable.  Oh, to be a fly on those walls when you're not around, because you know shit is flying around unchecked. 

That is very true and a good point. I have witnessed my friend "check" her roommate before in regards to race things so that's why I said I think she "gets it" as much as a white woman can. But I have wondered why they are that close of friends in the first place. They are roommates because my friend recently moved to NYC and couldn't afford rent on her own.

[05heel]

Sept 15, 2016 12:37:50 GMT -5 kicks said:

Sept 15, 2016 12:17:58 GMT -5 05heel said:

Exactly this.  I'd also want to examine why your friend is so close with the roommate who is racist enough in front of you that you feel uncomfortable.  Oh, to be a fly on those walls when you're not around, because you know shit is flying around unchecked. 

That is very true and a good point. I have witnessed my friend "check" her roommate before in regards to race things so that's why I said I think she "gets it" as much as a white woman can. But I have wondered why they are that close of friends in the first place. They are roommates because my friend recently moved to NYC and couldn't afford rent on her own.

That makes sense.  Well then I wouldn't worry about upsetting your friend by asking that you not hang out with her roommate.  She's obviously at least somewhat aware, so her reaction to you standing up for yourself will be telling.  You may be pleasantly surprised, but you should also brace yourself for some hot, white tears. 

[DesertMoon]

I'm at the bus stop, I see lady Sicily walking over...lord give me strength

[thejackpot]

I took a nap but you have gotten some good advice. It is positive that she knew it was a dud question.

[threejs]

You already got the best advice, but I am still dying that Straight Outta Compton is what your friend came up with to ask about!

I feel really, really blessed that I was able to leave white girls as friends back in high school. I came to DC for my HBCU and never left the area. It's been so long now that when I travel, I'm genuinely amazed at the lack of diversity. Even though I work in a small office, and there are a few white women who I have worked with for years, I'm just not capable/desirous of any real connection with them. There are like two white families in my neighborhood. We say hello, but that's it. Lurking here has been really eye opening for me in terms of how white women behave/relate to one another.

[kicks]

Thanks all!

I took sfy's advice and pretty much said that. I asked her why she felt that way. She explained that it's obviously a movie with a mostly black cast so by bringing it up with all black people around could've been seen the wrong way. And that she sometimes say things without thinking, so she wanted to know if it was out of bounds to mention.

I then told her I didn't want to hang out with her roommate anymore and she said that she understood and that she values our friendship so if she ever says anything offensive to let her know.

So her and my white best friend are going to be the only white women I hang out with.

[barcelonagirl]

Most of my friends are white and Filipino.

If you've been following me on the boards one of my first forays into CEP was asking about how to make black friends as an adult.

Currently I'm losing white friends by the minute. But they weren't really my friends to begin with. I just didn't think clearly
This year has been tough.

I haven't had a close relationship with a nonfamilial black woman since I was in 10th grade. Now I've got 3 women who've I begun a dialogue with mostly cause out here "we thought we were the only ones" lol

We're actually considering chartering a Mocha Mom's chapter.

It feels awkward to be specifically courting black women but I just want my kids to go to a brown playdate every once in a while.

Sorry for rambling.

[threejs]

Sept 15, 2016 17:06:09 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

So I gotta ask. threejs, would you be good with hearing a white woman saying she had no friends of color and that she has no interest in having more than a nodding relationship in the neighborhood with POC. Or is this how you feel it already is and since it's reality you just shrug and move along.

I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious about this. I notice some of my newer black neighbors are only interested in getting to know other black neighbors despite my efforts (and other neighbor's) to be consistently friendly and I've been trying to figure out whether they're feeling unwelcome or if they're just not interested or some combination.

I don't think this is something a white woman would say because how often are white women surrounded by anything other than themselves? But, all I can tell you is that I didn't realize how soul crushingly depressing my early life as the only black girl in school and in my neighborhoods was until I got to college. I thank God every day that I chose my college because of a Spike Lee movie. Lol. I had NO IDEA how freeing it is to be comfortable in your own skin because you're surrounded by people who just get you. There are barriers and baggage between me and white women that I just don't care to unpack at this point in my life. I think a lot of minorities, especially as kids, feel like we have to assimilate and try to fit in with the majority. I say fuck that.

[threejs]

Sept 15, 2016 17:34:29 GMT -5 barcelonagirl said:

Most of my friends are white and Filipino.

If you've been following me on the boards one of my first forays into CEP was asking about how to make black friends as an adult.

Currently I'm losing white friends by the minute. But they weren't really my friends to begin with. I just didn't think clearly
This year has been tough.

I haven't had a close relationship with a nonfamilial black woman since I was in 10th grade. Now I've got 3 women who've I begun a dialogue with mostly cause out here "we thought we were the only ones" lol

We're actually considering chartering a Mocha Mom's chapter.

It feels awkward to be specifically courting black women but I just want my kids to go to a brown playdate every once in a while.

Sorry for rambling.

I have a friend who started a mocha moms group in MD. Let me know if you need any pointers. Also, not sure where you are, but check to see if there's a Jack and Jill chapter near you. I know a lot of people may think of it as elitist, but it's a great way to create friendships for yourself and your kids with black and brown people.

[barcelonagirl]

Sept 15, 2016 17:35:24 GMT -5 threejs said:

But, all I can tell you is that I didn't realize how soul crushingly depressing my early life as the only black girl in school and in my neighborhoods was until I got to college. I thank God every day that I chose my college because of a Spike Lee movie. Lol. I had NO IDEA how freeing it is to be comfortable in your own skin because you're surrounded by people who just get you. There are barriers and baggage between me and white women that I just don't care to unpack at this point in my life. I think a lot of minorities, especially as kids, feel like we have to assimilate and try to fit in with the majority. I say fuck that.

I think about this a lot. Where did I go off path? I was friends with everyone and had the benefits of living in a pretty multicultural area. I think maybe puberty? Talking white and skinny teasing. I skipped a whole part of me and allowed others to tell me I wasn't black enough. So I just left and became the "other" in another group.

I don't know if it was worth it. I wish I could tell my 15 year old self that your blackness is unique and beautiful.

[sfy]

Sept 15, 2016 17:06:09 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

So I gotta ask. threejs , would you be good with hearing a white woman saying she had no friends of color and that she has no interest in having more than a nodding relationship in the neighborhood with POC. Or is this how you feel it already is and since it's reality you just shrug and move along.

I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious about this. I notice some of my newer black neighbors are only interested in getting to know other black neighbors despite my efforts (and other neighbor's) to be consistently friendly and I've been trying to figure out whether they're feeling unwelcome or if they're just not interested or some combination.

eta: I'm not singling threejs out ...she's just the most recent person to discuss the make up of their friend group, so I'm asking sp in this thread becasue these are things I absolutely don't even know how to broach with anyone in rl.

Can I just add to what threejs said that I hate these questions because being white and wanting to limit interactions with black people is nothing like the reverse? Part of the reason that I keep my interaction with white women and white men limited/surface is because as a general rule, they don't understand my culture and POV and for the most part, don't care to understand beyond their preconceived notions and narratives. As a POC in the US, I have been receiving a barrage of information about white people from all directions since I was old enough to process information. I don't, and have never had, the privilege of ignoring all things related to white culture, it has been served to me most often more than things about my own culture. So I enter a relationship with a white person devoid of their types of misunderstandings or confusion. I don't have to ask ridiculous questions, make unfair assumptions or insinuations or as mentioned earlier, throw out random statements about white people to feel less awkward. So from the start, we enter the relationship on two different playing fields.

Moreover and most importantly, if you look at the history and current events between black people and white people in this country, is it really that baffling that black people would be guarded? Or is it just logical thinking and/or behaving in our own self-interest? I think it's a modern day miracle that there are black people who willingly enter into these relationships.

[barcelonagirl]

sfy ain't that the truth. My Nana always said " We know white people. We've worked in their homes and fed their families and they don't know a damn thing about us"

It's such an unequal relationship. I got caught wearing a scarf at a wedding 10 years ago and I actually had to tell some "friends", "you know I'm black right?"

And quite frankly my hair has suffered under its need to adapt to whiteness and not be scarfed up. I'm done with that lol

[andwhat]

I am normally not a person who wishes the past were different because I feel all those things made me into the person I am today. But I sometimes, more lately, wonder how my life would have been different if I went to an HBCU. In HS I had this opinion that HBCUs were not an accurate reflection of the real world and that I would be doing myself some harm by going to one because I would be less prepared for interacting with white people in a professional setting. I honestly wish my parents would have intervened more in my college selection. I mean once I got to college, most of my friends were POC, if not all of them. But we were surrounded by whiteness and gravitated towards each other.

[carfar]

I need a comeback for people who fawn all over my son, ask if he's mixed, (he's not) and then say something like "omg mixed babies are the cutest! I always wanted a little mixed baby!!!" 😒it's happened several times, and I'm
Always just like 😐 I need something good to say.

[kicks]

Sept 16, 2016 9:18:59 GMT -5 andwhat said:

I am normally not a person who wishes the past were different because I feel all those things made me into the person I am today. But I sometimes, more lately, wonder how my life would have been different if I went to an HBCU. In HS I had this opinion that HBCUs were not an accurate reflection of the real world and that I would be doing myself some harm by going to one because I would be less prepared for interacting with white people in a professional setting. I honestly wish my parents would have intervened more in my college selection. I mean once I got to college, most of my friends were POC, if not all of them. But we were surrounded by whiteness and gravitated towards each other.

I think about this sometimes too.

I played soccer in college and that was my main goal, so I didn't really consider any HBCUs because I didn't get recruited by any.

So most of my friends were on the team and my whole 20 years of playing soccer I've only had 2 black teammates (and both of them were biracial).

So anyway I don't regret going to school to play soccer but I do wonder how things would've been different if I went to a different school. I didn't make my close black friends from school until after college and I went back to school for pre-med.

[kicks]

Sept 16, 2016 9:42:41 GMT -5 carfar said:

I need a comeback for people who fawn all over my son, ask if he's mixed, (he's not) and then say something like "omg mixed babies are the cutest! I always wanted a little mixed baby!!!" 😒it's happened several times, and I'm
Always just like 😐 I need something good to say.

I hate those situations where you usually just say nothing or smile awkwardly because all you can think is that you want to cuss the person out but can't afford to go to jail.

[iammalcolmx]

Sept 16, 2016 11:00:39 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

I have thoughts. Obviously everyone does their own calculus to determine their comfort zone, but I can't and won't write off white women because two of them gave me my five nephews and one of my nieces. And another one held my mama's hand for hours every day when she was in ICU for nearly six weeks, and also told me stories about crazy things they did over their 40-some-year friendship to keep me from being so sad and scared. And yet another one bought an expensive last minute plane ticket to come to my mama's memorial to support me. And some others are moms to my biracial friends.

I also talk to my friends about racial stuffs. You can't be my friend and think we are going to pretend like I'm not black and just stick to talking about clothes and the Real Housewives when Tamir is dead. So far I haven't had anybody cross a line, so maybe that's why I remain open.

I guess I lean more MLK than MalcomX at the end of the day.

Ha You know I lead more Malcolm but to add on this you KNOW I am here. You have seen how I am with my crazy ass IL's and other folks. Plus WE did not fly 15 fucking hours to visit a friend we were not comfortable with. No Ma'am so yes I understand being guarded with people, and my Momma still side eyes my MIL and will forever, but I can think of a few white women who are my ride or dies.

[05heel]

Sept 16, 2016 11:00:39 GMT -5 1234FIF! said:

I have thoughts. Obviously everyone does their own calculus to determine their comfort zone, but I can't and won't write off white women because two of them gave me my five nephews and one of my nieces. And another one held my mama's hand for hours every day when she was in ICU for nearly six weeks, and also told me stories about crazy things they did over their 40-some-year friendship to keep me from being so sad and scared. And yet another one bought an expensive last minute plane ticket to come to my mama's memorial to support me. And some others are moms to my biracial friends.

I also talk to my friends about racial stuffs. You can't be my friend and think we are going to pretend like I'm not black and just stick to talking about clothes and the Real Housewives when Tamir is dead. So far I haven't had anybody cross a line, so maybe that's why I remain open.

I guess I lean more MLK than MalcomX at the end of the day.

This is good!  I've never had those experiences, possibly because I'm not open to them.  It's probably a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point, so I would never knock someone doing what works for them.

[NitaX]

I like what 1234FIF! is saying. Am I a big ass fro wearing, Power to the People, Angela Davis-ish sista? Yes, I most certainly am. Do I still have white friends? Yes. I can't write them off because when all the chips were down, they were there. Their friendship is genuine. But, they're also very well aware that I'm Power to the People and understand my stances, the issues and support the same causes.

What I really feel is that everyone isn't there yet. Some people may never get there, but there are those who just in the encounters I've had start having an experience that changes their world view. If I can do that and get some chic to talk to me about race at my BFF's Scentsy Party, Imma say I'm winning and my interactions haven't been in vain. I don't have to change the world, I can start with the Power of One. Hopefully, that will start a chain reaction.

andwhat - I really did hate that I didn't go to an HBCU. I had a fairly well integrated public school experience and what I wanted to capture was the stuff we never learned about black folks in regular old history class. So, I took All Black Everythang in college - Af. Am History, Toni Morrison Lit Class, Af. Am. Political Thought. Looking back now, I should have pursued a "Black Stuff" degree to go with my Poli Sci degree.

[andwhat]

NitaX I think that is another thing to. Coming from a county where black people are the majority and going to very diverse schools, when I started working I saw that my diverse bubble was not the norm. So I thought if I go to an HBCU I am going to graduate and really not know how to navigate the "real world." And then I felt like I didn't necessarily fit in with the black crowd (which I now also know was a wrong way of thinking). I could have definitely learned those skills there and of course there are tons of black people like me who like all kinds of music and dress funky, etc.; but stupid, young me didn't know any better and no one was telling me. (honestly I think my family thought I wouldn't fit in or like an HBCU. I was definitely weird) I do think of how my life would have been different if I went to Howard though.

[brandnewday]

Being half white, I am open to relationships with any race really. I have close friends with women of different races and cultures. The ones that are close know who I am and what I stand for. Which means being unapologetically black AND white. People I've been close to in the past have tried to shame me for being white. As if it a shortcoming or within my control. I take pride in my Irish heritage and my blackness. I understand which of the two needs representation in terms of equity and diversity. With that, I'm more vocally and culturally attached to my black identity.

It's an interesting thing having dual identities, maybe even a 3rd identity as biracial, black, and white. I recognize my own privilege in my appearance as it isn't automatically black or biracial to most white people.

I find more advocacy and people who listen in my white friends. Mostly because I'm not here for shenanigans. I've had frank conversations with my mom, with family members, people from church, you name it.

[sfy]

Sept 16, 2016 11:40:07 GMT -5 @foodielicious said:

Happy to read the additional responses and that not all the awesome people are done.

I have said this before, but I think you will find that most of the black women on this board lead very integrated lives.  I do not, but I'm definitely in the minority in that respect.  I also lean more like Huey P. Newton than Malcolm X , but I support people doing whatever works for them.  What has transpired on this board over the past few months, however, is generally how I've always watched things play out, hence why it would never work for me.
Save

[newnamesameperson]

I married someone white, my children are half white so I clearly have strong relationships with white people. However, one difference for me is I do let some comments slide because I've realized it is not my responsibility to educate everyone and anyone. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to let you make a blatant racist comment to my face but I'm also not going to try and educate you on why you shouldn't vote for Trump. This is probably a lie, I do look at you like you're an idiot and in some cases point out why I think so and others just walk away. Regardless, not everyone is worth my time nor my energy.

On the flip side, I've wondered why some people weren't my friend and I think in a few circumstances race played a part. They didn't have friends of my color nor were they looking for any. I'd love to have more friends of my race but the diversity where I am is limited and sometimes I kind of think screw it. There are people of my race that can be so damn cliquish and hateful to those of their own race that I can't take it. Also, they don't let white people in, which is their choice but you're not going to exclude my husband or my kids so keep on and I'll keep on. Also it was a horrible experience in college, I've often had to reevaluate.

The other day someone, of my race, mentioned how beautiful my children were....you know since they were "hybrids." GTFO here with that nonsense.