Some GA schools Mandarin Mandatory

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Some Ga. Schools Make Mandarin Mandatory



by Adam Ragusea








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Instructor Huiling Li encourages second-grader Trinity Faulkner on the first day of Mandarin Chinese classes at Brookdale Elementary School in Macon, Ga.








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September 8, 2012from GPB
Public schools in Macon, Ga., and surrounding Bibb County have a lot of problems. Most of the 25,000 students are poor enough to qualify for free and reduced lunch, and about half don't graduate.

Bibb County's Haitian-born superintendent Romain Dallemand came into the job last year with a bag of changes he calls "The Macon Miracle." There are now longer schools days, year-round instruction, and one mandate nobody saw coming: Mandarin Chinese for every student, pre-K through 12th grade.

"Students who are in elementary school today, by 2050 they'll be at the pinnacle of their career," Dallemand says. "They will live in a world where China and India will have 50 percent of the world GDP. They will live in a world where, if they cannot function successfully in the Asian culture, they will pay a heavy price."

This school year, Dallemand is rolling out Mandarin in stages, a few sessions a week, with the youngest kids starting first. In three years, it will be at every grade level.

Chinese Isn't Just For High Achievers


Instructors and other young teachers from China are being provided to Bibb County schools by a nearby Confucius Institute, one of a number of nonprofit cultural centers partially funded by the Chinese government. Beijing wants to spread Mandarin abroad, and at just $16,000 per instructor per year, the price is right for Dallemand.

"Well, it's a win-win for everyone," he says.

But not everyone in Bibb County sees it that way.

Some parents see a Communist regime enacting its geopolitical agenda on their children. The more common critique, however, is not political. It is the practical concern.

"Bibb County is not known for producing the highest-achieving graduates," says Macon resident Dina McDonald. "You'll see that many of them can't even speak basic English."

McDonald herself has a ninth-grader in the public schools and says she can imagine some students going into fields where Mandarin could be useful, like international business, technology or law. But with lower achievers, she says, "Do you want to teach them how to say, 'Do you want fries with that?' in Mandarin?"

Dallemand would rather ask what kind of education should be provided for every single student — not just some of them.

"We believe that every child can be successful if the adults around them create the conditions for them to be successful," he says.

Why Not Spanish?

Brazilian-born Marina Spears and her husband, Eric, are also Bibb County parents, and they agree that fluency in the languages of emerging economies is important. Their kids already speak Portuguese at home.

"We are obviously for a foreign language," Marina Spears says. "[But] I think in a perfect world, we would have been given the choice."

If parents insist, there is an opt-out provision for the Mandarin curriculum, but that's not the kind of choice they're talking about.

"While we do know that Mandarin is a critical language, another critical language here in the United States is Spanish," Eric Spears says.

Bibb high schools will continue to offer Spanish and French on top of Mandarin, but for most of the elementary kids, it's Chinese or nothing. Considering the Hispanic population doubled in Georgia over the last census period, the "Why not Spanish?" question is one Dallemand gets a lot.

"My wife is a Latina, and so I fully understand," he says. But "it is important for communities to educate our children for their future, not our past."

For that future, Dallemand says, there is no choice but Mandarin Chinese.

[marie427]

This is so ridiculous. For starters, and I know I'm I'm the minority here, but no matter what happens with China, I do not believe that Mandarin fluency will become as necessary as people assume it will become. Second, while I do support kids learning a second language (with choices offered!) in elementary school, we have such a long way to go in this country before we can offer that option in all schools. I think learning another language does some pretty amazing things to the brain, but it shouldn't be a priority, let alone required, in floundering schools.

[Deleted]

Marie-
I get what you are saying, but every other country in the world starts teaching foreign languages much younger than we do. In the UK it starts at 7 now. Canada is French/English from the start, etc.

Maybe if we had higher expectations for our children from the start they wouldn't flounder so much on the international arena.

As for language choice, I'm sure most districts just from a cost stand point will only adopt 1 language. I'm pro mandarin only because from my understanding it is very hard to learn and distinguish the tones if you don't learn very young.

[marie427]

I know, that's why I do support learning another language in the younger grades. I am sure the education systems in other countries aren't perfect, but just speaking about our own, I'm just not comfortable with this.

If there is a positive in this story, it's that foreign language education isn't just something only more affluent school districts can afford.

[msmerymac]

I'm very pro teaching foreign language in younger grades. My school district didn't start until 7th grade and I am no where near proficient in French, despite 7 years of classes (including 1 year in college). The elementary school that was affiliated with my (private) high school started language instruction in 3rd grade. By the time the elementary grads got to 9th grade, they were already at a high school year 3 level - the level a junior would be expected to be at if she started in 8th or 9th grade. The best anyone else could have expected would be to place out of year 1 and do year 2 in 9th grade. And? NY state only requires 3 years of high school foreign language instruction, so basically, those kids were already practically done with the basic graduation requirement. However, most kept going, taking year 4, year 5, and then AP French in senior year (you could take AP Spanish in lieu of year 5). I know one person who double majored in Spanish and French in college and minored in Latin, has taught languages in schools since then, and is now working as an interpreter. My high school also offered Latin (which was traditional - it was a Catholic school).

I don't really have a problem with not having a choice, either. Sure, I think you could make an argument that Spanish is important, and I would be fine with my children learning Spanish at an early age as well. But you could also argue that many children in the district already have some level of Spanish proficiency at home if the population has been skewing more and more Latino in recent years. I'd rather have language instruction in the early years with no choice of language (and let's face it - it would be the choice of the parents, not a language the students themselves wanted to study) than no language instruction at all.

[EloiseWeenie]

My husband grew up in a small town outside of Macon. He is very smart, but the school systems in the area suck. He can't spell at all, and he was top of his class. While I think it's great to be teaching kids foreign languages from an early age, I think they should focus their attention on basic skills that obviously aren't being taught.

[ttt]

Remember in the 1980s when everyone said Japanese was THE language to learn because Japan would dominate the world economy in 20 years?

[Deleted]

Sept 8, 2012 14:33:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

Remember in the 1980s when everyone said Japanese was THE language to learn because Japan would dominate the world economy in 20 years?

I don't think anyone can predict what will be the major language in 20 years, but I don't think any of my classmates who studied Russian or Japanese regret it.

[mrslefty]

Sept 8, 2012 13:41:26 GMT -5 @septimus said:

McDonald herself has a ninth-grader in the public schools and says she can imagine some students going into fields where Mandarin could be useful, like international business, technology or law. But with lower achievers, she says, "Do you want to teach them how to say, 'Do you want fries with that?' in Mandarin?"

Ouch! She sounds like a peach...

As for the idea, I love it so long as there is a bit of choice, like maybe two languages (and the funding to back it up). In my area it is so important to know Spanish. I am taking conversational classes at the local community college so that I can communicate with families. I wish I had started Spanish much much younger.
My only question is how would this work with ELL students? Would they have to learn two languages at once?

[ttt]

Sept 8, 2012 14:37:44 GMT -5 @septimus said:

Sept 8, 2012 14:33:00 GMT -5 ttt said:

Remember in the 1980s when everyone said Japanese was THE language to learn because Japan would dominate the world economy in 20 years?

I don't think anyone can predict what will be the major language in 20 years, but I don't think any of my classmates who studied Russian or Japanese regret it.

I'm sure they don't. I don't know anyone who regrets studying a language. But I think we should keep in mind that Mandarin is not necessarily 100% going to be the lingua franca of the future global economy, despite what 'experts' are predicting. They've certainly been wrong before. I'm not sure it's wise to put all our eggs in one basket and force every student to learn one single language without giving them a choice.

[emisi]

I think this is pretty awesome, actually. I took Mandarin in college and loved it, but it was hard. I'd like to get my kid isn't a program early. It's so much easier to learn languages when you're young, especially something as hard as Mandarin.

[shopgirl07]

I love this. And I like that this superintendent is thinking outside the box and trying to come up with alternate solutions to help performance.

My son's high school offered Mandarin and the ability to study abroad in China for a semester. I was told that kids who have trouble with spelling often excel at Mandarin and Japanese because they use characters instead of letters. And if you can build confidence in a child in one area, it will translate into others.

[devonpow]

My son's school does mandatory Mandarin Chinese. It is a K-8 school and all students have Mandarin class 3 days a week for all grade levels. We live in a vey high achieving school district with 8 grammar schools (k-8) and one high school. Each grammar school has a mandatory language program - some have Chinese, some Spanish, some other languages (i think russian at one?) I think it is great. At this age I like that he is learning any additional language. I don't care what language it is, in particular. Once he gets into 6th gade he can select an additional language if he wants, and the high school has a lot of language options.

[frlcb]

I'm annoyed that there are no public immersion schools of any language in Atlanta but they are doing this in Macon. Random.

[marissa]

My kids are getting mandatory Spanish and Mandarin but no
Library. I am not opposed but want they to master English as the twins will be 7 and have not done so yet.

[IIOY]

I find the line of reasoning interesting because they have decided that these kids will be better served by learning Chinese than Spanish. For practical purposes, I actually don't think this will turn out to be true for most of these kids.

[ChillyMcFreeze]

I am, ahem, very close to this situation, and I don't think it's a wise decision. It would be great for kids to opt into this. Really, really cool. But like the article said, kids in this district barely speak English. There are so many problems that need solving before we introduce mandatory Mandarin. Like getting class sizes below 32 and the graduation rate above 50%. (Not exaggerating.)

[mrslefty]

Sept 9, 2012 18:26:43 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

I am, ahem, very close to this situation, and I don't think it's a wise decision. It would be great for kids to opt into this. Really, really cool. But like the article said, kids in this district barely speak English. There are so many problems that need solving before we introduce mandatory Mandarin. Like getting class sizes below 32 and the graduation rate above 50%. (Not exaggerating.)

I am not familiar with the district but are there a lot of ELL students?

And also, 32 kids in an elementary class?!?!?!?!? I would cry.

[ChillyMcFreeze]

Sept 9, 2012 18:31:50 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

Sept 9, 2012 18:26:43 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

I am, ahem, very close to this situation, and I don't think it's a wise decision. It would be great for kids to opt into this. Really, really cool. But like the article said, kids in this district barely speak English. There are so many problems that need solving before we introduce mandatory Mandarin. Like getting class sizes below 32 and the graduation rate above 50%. (Not exaggerating.)

I am not familiar with the district but are there a lot of ELL students?

And also, 32 kids in an elementary class?!?!?!?!? I would cry.

I believe there is a pretty substantial ELL contingent (this is an enormous district in a rural-ish area), but I don't have a solid number for you. The 32 number is anecdata from one of the high schools.

[mrslefty]

Sept 9, 2012 18:35:06 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

Sept 9, 2012 18:31:50 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

I am not familiar with the district but are there a lot of ELL students?

And also, 32 kids in an elementary class?!?!?!?!? I would cry.

I believe there is a pretty substantial ELL contingent (this is an enormous district in a rural-ish area), but I don't have a solid number for you. The 32 number is anecdata from one of the high schools.

Whew, could you imagine 32 5 year olds?

I wonder if ELLs are required to learn Mandarin. Being trilingual would be awesome, I just wonder how it works

[ChillyMcFreeze]

Sept 9, 2012 18:38:49 GMT -5 mrslefty said:

Sept 9, 2012 18:35:06 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

I believe there is a pretty substantial ELL contingent (this is an enormous district in a rural-ish area), but I don't have a solid number for you. The 32 number is anecdata from one of the high schools.

Whew, could you imagine 32 5 year olds?

I wonder if ELLs are required to learn Mandarin. Being trilingual would be awesome, I just wonder how it works

I can't imagine ONE 5-year-old at this point! Elementary school teachers are special people.

I would think the ELLs would be able to opt out. As I understand it, the Confucius Institute sends instructors from China to the US to teach (and this has resulted in all kinds of visa issues). I don't know what kind of additional challenges that presents to teach ELLs a third language when neither is native to the host country language. I am not one of those people with an ear for languages, so the idea of picking up a third language fluently blows my mind.

[basilosaurus]

I don't buy the argument that learning another language will detract from the ability to learn English. Doesn't learning another language enhance your language skills in general?

But I really think Mandarin is a dumb choice in Macon. 2 of my closest friends from college are from there, so I've visited a lot. I just don't see Chinese being all that useful there compared to Spanish.

fwiw I started Spanish lessons in 1st grade. At 7th we could choose to switch to French, but I stayed with Spanish. I'm no where near conversant, despite taking conversational, which was a joke, in 11th grade. So, just starting early isn't good enough. Our early lessons were basically me llamo es and como estas, plus some numbers and nouns. Oh, and we'd watch saludos amigos.

It did allow me to take spanish I as a 7th grader instead of freshman, but I think those first 4 years especially were wasted.

[mrslefty]

Sept 9, 2012 18:47:45 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I don't buy the argument that learning another language will detract from the ability to learn English. Doesn't learning another language enhance your language skills in general?

But I really think Mandarin is a dumb choice in Macon. 2 of my closest friends from college are from there, so I've visited a lot. I just don't see Chinese being all that useful there compared to Spanish.

fwiw I started Spanish lessons in 1st grade. At 7th we could choose to switch to French, but I stayed with Spanish. I'm no where near conversant, despite taking conversational, which was a joke, in 11th grade. So, just starting early isn't good enough. Our early lessons were basically me llamo es and como estas, plus some numbers and nouns. Oh, and we'd watch saludos amigos.

It did allow me to take spanish I as a 7th grader instead of freshman, but I think those first 4 years especially were wasted.

I could see it either way really, so I would be willing to be swayed for or against learning two languages at once.

I took 6 years of Spanish and it was totally useless. I barely remember a thing (though I can still read Spanish decently). I am taking a conversational class that is so so right now.

[AJL]

Sept 9, 2012 18:47:45 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

I don't buy the argument that learning another language will detract from the ability to learn English. Doesn't learning another language enhance your language skills in general?

But I really think Mandarin is a dumb choice in Macon. 2 of my closest friends from college are from there, so I've visited a lot. I just don't see Chinese being all that useful there compared to Spanish.

fwiw I started Spanish lessons in 1st grade. At 7th we could choose to switch to French, but I stayed with Spanish. I'm no where near conversant, despite taking conversational, which was a joke, in 11th grade. So, just starting early isn't good enough. Our early lessons were basically me llamo es and como estas, plus some numbers and nouns. Oh, and we'd watch saludos amigos.

It did allow me to take spanish I as a 7th grader instead of freshman, but I think those first 4 years especially were wasted.

Yay. I now have this theme song stuck in my head.

Saludos, saludos amigos...greetings to my friends!

[ChillyMcFreeze]

I think when we say "they can't even speak English," we mean they're performing under par in every academic area. So I wonder what will get slashed when everyone is enrolled in Mandarin. The vast majority of these kids should probably be taking a vocational class since more than half won't go to college. Instead of getting them ready for careers in business and law with a firm Mandarin background, the realistic route would be to prepare them for jobs in Air Conditioning tech and health services.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2012 19:30:05 GMT -5 ChillyMcFreeze said:

I think when we say "they can't even speak English," we mean they're performing under par in every academic area. So I wonder what will get slashed when everyone is enrolled in Mandarin. The vast majority of these kids should probably be taking a vocational class since more than half won't go to college. Instead of getting them ready for careers in business and law with a firm Mandarin background, the realistic route would be to prepare them for jobs in Air Conditioning tech and health services.

My district has been considering adding Mandarin. Apparently the Chinese gov't will pay for instructors to come to the US and teach, the district just provides housing. It is all a subtle plot for the Chinese to infiltrate America faster than the UN's Agenda 21

[basilosaurus]

saludos saludos amiiiiigos. Vamos a cantar!

septimus, there actually is something to that plot. Not quite as sinister, but they are more than happy to supply teachers and propaganda. I can take a semester of Chinese here for $129.

I think that some kid going into hvac or other vocational work would be definitely helped by familiarity in Spanish. The problem is that my experience as a young spanish learner and as an english teacher to young children in japan is that early exposure is basically worthless if not done right. The kids I taught learned songs that helped them spell out coconut (for real!) and hickory dickory dock which isn't going to help them at all. We need to figure out how the European countries that teach English so well manage to do it.

[Deleted]

Sept 9, 2012 20:05:40 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

saludos saludos amiiiiigos. Vamos a cantar!

septimus, there actually is something to that plot. Not quite as sinister, but they are more than happy to supply teachers and propaganda. I can take a semester of Chinese here for $129.

I think that some kid going into hvac or other vocational work would be definitely helped by familiarity in Spanish. The problem is that my experience as a young spanish learner and as an english teacher to young children in japan is that early exposure is basically worthless if not done right. The kids I taught learned songs that helped them spell out coconut (for real!) and hickory dickory dock which isn't going to help them at all. We need to figure out how the European countries that teach English so well manage to do it.

It is quite simple and it helped me learned Danish when I lived in Denmark. TV.

Probably 80% of the television programming in Denmark was in English with Danish subtitles. My classmates swear that's how they learned English and it really helped me figure out Danish reading the subtitles.

[basilosaurus]

I've met people in Japan and Korea who claimed to use tv, too, but I still couldn't understand them. They could do a mean John Wayne impression, though I'm sure the language you're coming from makes a huge difference, though.

As does your access to native speakers. I only taught once a week in Japan, but the kids had class everyday with their heavily accented Japanese teachers. There was nothing I could do to get them to say teeth instead of teeessss.

[ttt]

Sept 9, 2012 17:36:41 GMT -5 IIOY said:

I find the line of reasoning interesting because they have decided that these kids will be better served by learning Chinese than Spanish. For practical purposes, I actually don't think this will turn out to be true for most of these kids.

I agree.

Sibil, I don't think learning another language hurts your English on an individual level. But on a school/district level, I don't think they should be funding Mandarin classes when the kids aren't even proficient in English. They should be directing that funding towards ESL or additional English courses, not adding Mandarin. Or as someone pointed out, vocational classes.

I just don't think that hordes of students from Bibb county are going to be going into international business. I think that Spanish will be far more useful for them - or for the Spanish speakers, English - than Mandarin.