Even more confused by dog food (long)

[Deleted]

I'm trying to get my dog to a better kibble. We first got her about 2 weeks ago and I picked a grain free mid grade food bc Petsmart advised me that it was hard on a dog to go from shelter food to a top tier food. I figured that I would slowly work her into a top tier food.

Then we had a lengthy discussion with her Vet about food. He says that she needs at least 11% fiber in her food and none of the top tier foods have that. I've been making a mixture of half kibble and half brown rice for her, at the advice of the vet. She's about 2 years old and is completely healthy.

He also mentioned that if I wanted I could cook a human food diet for her. He gave me guidelines on what to do. I'm totally fine with doing this, but then I read online that dogs need that extra texture in their food to help with teeth/gum health, so then I thought I'd go back to kibble or a kibble mixture.

I've consulted DogFoodAdvisor.com and www.dogfoodanalysis.com, per the recommendations of this board and now I'm even more confused! I was going to get her the Blue Buffalo Wilderness kibble until I realized that there have been a lot of recalls earlier this year and dogs were getting extremely sick off of it. Also, there were reports that some dogs wouldn't eat it or ended up with terrible digestive problems because of it.

The raw/frozen dog foods make me nervous because she's a slow eater and has already had one bout of a bacterial infection in her intestines. (We took her back to the Vet and he gave her a clean bill of health.)

Is there an easier way to pick food or should I just cook for her? I hate to put my pup through this if there's another way around finding her better food.

Thanks for the help!

[patches31709]

Vets in general tend to not know a lot about proper nutrition. I question the 11% number - too much fiber will give your dog diarrhea. I've read that 4-5% is recommended.

[Deleted]

I thought that seemed high too because all of the foods that I were looking at were in the 3-5% range, but he said that he wanted her to eat more fiber because of her size. She's a 30lb corgi/terrier mix and he just wanted to make sure that her anal glands would stay ok. She has had some digestive problems since we've gotten her, but ever since I added brown rice to her food she seems to be doing better.

[mortomo]

I have a rat terrier puppy (9 1/2 mos old) and he was on Blue Buffalo puppy and had digestive issues with it. He's been on Fromm surf and turf for about 1 1/2 mos now (was on Fromm puppy prior to that) and is doing really well. It's a grain free food. They have several different flavors in that line that you can switch between.

[sebd12]

Ditto patches on vets having limited training on nutrition.
Dogs today have an amazing ability to get by on almost anything, but peak health is a different story.
Dogs in the wild eat a strict carnivorous diet, so next to no fiber or carbohydrates. I believe the best diet for any dog would be raw meat, fat, organs, and bones, but that is cost prohibitive to most people (myself included). The rest of the dog food is basically graded on the quality of the meat product and the filler. Corn is cheap, and not so good for the dog, rice and potatoes are a little better, but still not "nutritious" for your dog.

The kibble texture for clean teeth is somewhat misguided as well. Have you ever seen dog barf? whole, soggy kibbles. they don't really "chew" kibble, so it doesn't clean their teeth. Better to just brush their teeth or supplement with those dental treats that are made for chewing.

If your dog is healthy and hasn't had anal gland trouble, i wouldn't be overly concerned. usually when dogs need to poop or puke, they find some grass to ingest. Although, if he's doing that often, something may be off with what you are feeding him.

I give my dogs rice as a filler. I think it's not TOO evil. And regarding cooking, you shoudln't actually have to cook anything except rice. They can eat raw meat, eggs, etc because their stomachs aren't as sensitive to bacteria like e.coli and salmonella like ours are.

We did a lot of trial and error and I still switch dog food every other bag or so.

Did your dog have a bacteria issue FROM raw/frozen foods? There are some theories that wheat (found in lower-grade dog foods) can kill off good bacteria in the intestines of carnivores, letting bad bacteria take over. You'd be amazed at how fast they will eat their portions of the "good stuff," like raw or lightly cooked meat! You can always refrigerate unused portions as well.
If you can afford raw/frozen and supplment with a pro-biotic i bet she'd do just fine.

You sound like you are really making an effort to do the best for her. Don't worry, an otherwise healthy dog can handle a lot of dietary mistakes before you find what works for you. I accidently gave my dog a 3-day case of the liqui-shits switching to a food that was too rich for her. She eventually forgave me. Their favorite time of year is the fall when they get to eat the pieces of deer we don't - bones, organs, fatty muscles.

[kellbell191]

Veterinary nutrition classes are usually funded by science diet. Which is a less than stellar food. Notice how they all sell science diet in the lobby?

[katietornado]

I say ignore your vet. Vets don't know shit about animal nutrition, unforch. And seriously. Kibble cleans a dog's teeth as much as eating crackers cleans your teeth.

Pick a good food from dogfoodanalysis and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Also, FWIW, I have two dogs on the exact same food every day. One has shittastic teeth and needs annual dentals. The other has beautiful teeth and hasn't needed them cleaned in over 3 years. Hint: it's not the food. It's the genetics.

[patches31709]

Sept 10, 2012 17:44:40 GMT -5 katietornado said:

Also, FWIW, I have two dogs on the exact same food every day. One has shittastic teeth and needs annual dentals. The other has beautiful teeth and hasn't needed them cleaned in over 3 years. Hint: it's not the food. It's the genetics.

This is so true - our dog eats quality kibble and will be transitioning to raw as soon as it gets here (I'm looking at you, Petfooddirect! :@ ), but he doesn't have the greatest teeth. He's got some buildup and will probably need a dental next year. My mom's dog eats crap (I've tried, I give up), and his teeth are seriously glowing white.

[redheadbaker]

Sept 10, 2012 17:59:06 GMT -5 patches31709 said:

Sept 10, 2012 17:44:40 GMT -5 katietornado said:

Also, FWIW, I have two dogs on the exact same food every day. One has shittastic teeth and needs annual dentals. The other has beautiful teeth and hasn't needed them cleaned in over 3 years. Hint: it's not the food. It's the genetics.

This is so true - our dog eats quality kibble and will be transitioning to raw as soon as it gets here (I'm looking at you, Petfooddirect! ), but he doesn't have the greatest teeth. He's got some buildup and will probably need a dental next year. My mom's dog eats crap (I've tried, I give up), and his teeth are seriously glowing white.

Are you getting pre-ground raw? That won't help their teeth much either -- it's crunching on whole bones that cleans their teeth.

[M]

Don't over think it. Just decide if you want to feed raw or kibble (or both). I think all raw is best for a dog. Orijen is my top pick for kibble but $$. TOTW is also pretty good with a great price. If neither works for some reason, look for another 5-6 star grain free kibble on dogfoodanalysis and try it. Process of elimination. Other things good for dogs are - vanilla yogurt, canned pumpkin, raw egg, and fish oil.

Hilo is on an almost all raw diet with a little bit of Orijen Six Fish kibble to give him the fish oils and other nutritions that I don't have time to give. You can also tell when your dog is eating really healthy because their poop is dried and crusty and probably even white. It just means they are actually using all the nutrition from the food they eat.

Those raw shank (marrow) bones are great for their teeth. Hilo's never had his teeth brushed or cleaned and he has teeth so white that they seriously glow in the dark. One morning I went out to the living room where the fish tank light was in it's sunrise phase (like black light) and Hilo turns his head to me and smiles. It was still pitch black so all I could see was his pearly whites glowing in the dark haha.

[M]

Also, I wouldn't cook any food. Dogs in their natural habitat eat raw meats. The only time I would ever cook for them is if they're sick and it's strict boiled chicken and rice.

[patches31709]

Sept 10, 2012 20:34:49 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Sept 10, 2012 17:59:06 GMT -5 patches31709 said:

This is so true - our dog eats quality kibble and will be transitioning to raw as soon as it gets here (I'm looking at you, Petfooddirect! ), but he doesn't have the greatest teeth. He's got some buildup and will probably need a dental next year. My mom's dog eats crap (I've tried, I give up), and his teeth are seriously glowing white.

Are you getting pre-ground raw? That won't help their teeth much either -- it's crunching on whole bones that cleans their teeth.

Yes I know. I didn't say I intended for it to help clean his teeth. I am getting pre-ground raw, but will be supplementing with bones.

[janegold]

Blue Buffalo also gave my dog very bad digestive trouble. She's on Nature's Domain now and does SO well with it.

The marrow bones keep our dog's teeth in great shape, too. A couple weekends ago, we went out of town and forgot her bones at home and after just a few days, her breath smelled so bad. I am convinced it was because she didn't have the bones to keep everything clean.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I'm going to do some checking into the foods that you've all recommended.

Since everyone seems to be in agreement that the vet isn't the best resource for food help, is there someone who you'd consider a good resource? I'm doing the research, but there's so much information out there!

Thanks again!

[Deleted]

Thank you so much for those links, veggielove. That's really helpful. The more I think about it the more I think I want to feed her an all raw diet. It just seems so much better for her in the long run.

Thanks again for all of your help!

[Deleted]

Sorry if this is a repeat, you can add fibre to their diet with canned pumpkin (not the pie filler)

And what works for one dog doesn't always work for every dog. So there may still be some trial and error. i.e. my dog does great on Orijen, but not Acana or Innova. All good foods but for some reason not for her.