So, a white boy called my daughter an ape

[threejs]

I got a call from her teacher that this happened today.  I let her get braids (with hair added) this weekend, and she was holding one of her braids over her lip like a mustache trying to be funny, and this kid said she looked like an ape.

She was upset.  She told both the kid and her teacher that her feelings were hurt, especially because she didn't like being called an animal.  The teacher spoke with the boy and his mother (who happened to be at school today volunteering for the V-Day party).  Teacher didn't feel the kid knew that this particular word had racial undertones. Kid apparently repeated that this is what my daughter looked like to him, but he didn't mean anything by it.

Kids are in 4th grade.  

WWYD?  

[cookiemdough]

So what was the mother's reaction? "He didn't mean anything by it" isn't really an acceptable excuse.

I am really sorry this happened to your daughter.

[andwhat]

Oh no. I'm so sorry that happened to her.

I think my response would depend on the parents. Like cookie said his response isn't a valid excuse. This is why these conversations need to happen early.

[redwino]

Holy shit! I'd lose it on the teacher and the mother but that's probably not the "right" thing to do. I'm so sorry for your baby. That boy is a piece of shit. To double down on his remarks and for the teacher to be all "he doesn't understand" fuck nah. I'm so pissed for you right now

[meshaliuknits]

Feb 14, 2017 19:01:35 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

I would kick that 4th graders ass.
Fuck no, in 4th grade, you know better.
Fuck that kid, fuck the dumbass mother, and an extra fuck you to the teacher trying to downplay this situations.

Bitches trying it!

That was my reaction. I'm pretty pissed on your behalf.

[tacokick]

In fourth grade they know better.

[calle28]

I'm sorry for your baby.

The kid knows better and should definitely be punished.

If the teacher doesn't respond appropriately, elevate to the principal! That little jerk needs to feel the wrath!

[insominac]

I'm proud of your daughter for standing up for herself and I'm sorry this happened to her.

This is, as they say, a teachable moment. And that boy is going to learn. Conference with teacher, principal, and child's parent.

[kicks]

Omg I'm so sorry.

What a shitty little kid.
That's when the teacher and parent need to have the conversation about race.

I'm going to guess those parents "don't see color" and shrug it off.
I don't know what I'd do in your shoes but I hope your daughter is ok.

[iammalcolmx]

Feb 14, 2017 23:37:14 GMT -5 meshaliuknits said:

Feb 14, 2017 19:01:35 GMT -5 @kirkette said:

I would kick that 4th graders ass.
Fuck no, in 4th grade, you know better.
Fuck that kid, fuck the dumbass mother, and an extra fuck you to the teacher trying to downplay this situations.

Bitches trying it!

That was my reaction. I'm pretty pissed on your behalf.

Tri-mothefucking-tto!

[cookiemdough]

Feb 15, 2017 1:06:13 GMT -5 insominac said:

I'm proud of your daughter for standing up for herself and I'm sorry this happened to her.

This is, as they say, a teachable moment. And that boy is going to learn. Conference with teacher, principal, and child's parent.

I like this approach. This is not a kids will be kids thing and should not be treated as such. The other kids parents need to be there so they understand their role in this. The thing is he probably learned from them but whatever. They should feel the embarrassment that they are raising a kid that is starting down the road of being a shitty person.

[CrazyLucky]

Is this something that needs to be taught proactively? Or as it happens? DS is in first grade, and I am certain he would not know that calling someone an ape has any racial undertones. If it should be taught proactively, how would you do that? His school is about half minority, and so far he hasn't come home with anything objectionable. Foul language yes, but not anything racist.

[dr.girlfriend]

I was a little hesitant to even weigh in on this because I'm not black, but I figured I'd give it a go, especially since it seems like people are pretty unanimous that it was reflective of a racist underlying message. I agree that it was super hurtful (and I'm so sorry that happened to your DD), and should be addressed with the parent and teacher. And honestly, any adult would be aware of the racial overtones. I'm not 100% convinced that a child would be. Like DS had to do something for his 100 Days of School project, and because I'm a lazy-ass I had him stick white hole-punch reinforcers on a piece of construction paper. The assignment said he had to give it a title. I suggested something like "One Hundred Dots" and walked away. When I got back, he had decided to go creative and name it "White Warriors." I think he had NO IDEA that "White Warriors" just sounds super-Steve Bannon-y to us. I made him change it to "White Warrior Dots." I think treating it like a teachable moment and explaining to him why it was particularly hurtful would be good, but I would hope that in his five years or so of awareness he probably has *not* experienced anyone comparing people of color to primates. Did your daughter seem to understand the racial implications, or was she mostly hurt that he compared her to an animal, and would be as hurt if he said she looked like a dog or something?

[threejs]

Sorry to have posted and run yesterday. I was so mad I couldn't think straight. Just for a little background, as andwhat knows, my daughter attends a small, independent day school. I am not kidding when I say I was ready to set the whole fucking place on fire yesterday. But, after speaking extensively last night with her teacher, the lower school head, the head of school, and the boy's parents, I'm down off that ledge.

My dd never even mentioned the incident last night, so I actually didn't talk to her about it. I don't want to put the idea of the word ape as a racial slur in her head just yet. The parents were so, so mortified, and told me over and over again that they were sorry. CrazyLucky, the Mom asked me the same question, if this was something she should have taught him proactively. I told her that while I'm not sure at what age racial slurs should be discussed, I DO think all kids need to know, very early, that name calling anyone any type of animal is just never, never okay. This kid is new this year, is extremely shy and awkward, and has had a hard time making friends. My child considers herself the Queen of 4th grade, and according to his Mom, he was very excited that she's befriended him since they both started playing the flute, and he really was just trying to match her silliness. I could literally feel the mortification going on in their house through the phone. His parents had him write an apology letter to give to her today.

I also discussed with the parents and the school's administration that, in light of the orange cheeto land we now live in, I feel like we as parents and educators need to be vigilant about rejecting this culture of being rude, racist and sexist. They all agreed.

Oh, and I also made it clear that, had there been the slightest indication that this was, in fact, intended as a racial slur, I would expect that any child using racial slurs be expelled. I was assured that would be the case. The tough part for me is, since my own kid doesn't know what being called an ape means in the broader context, I can't assume that her classmate knew either - if that makes sense.

[tacokick]

Feb 15, 2017 13:28:01 GMT -5 threejs said:

Sorry to have posted and run yesterday. I was so mad I couldn't think straight. Just for a little background, as andwhat knows, my daughter attends a small, independent day school. I am not kidding when I say I was ready to set the whole fucking place on fire yesterday. But, after speaking extensively last night with her teacher, the lower school head, the head of school, and the boy's parents, I'm down off that ledge.

My dd never even mentioned the incident last night, so I actually didn't talk to her about it. I don't want to put the idea of the word ape as a racial slur in her head just yet. The parents were so, so mortified, and told me over and over again that they were sorry. CrazyLucky, the Mom asked me the same question, if this was something she should have taught him proactively. I told her that while I'm not sure at what age racial slurs should be discussed, I DO think all kids need to know, very early, that name calling anyone any type of animal is just never, never okay. This kid is new this year, is extremely shy and awkward, and has had a hard time making friends. My child considers herself the Queen of 4th grade, and according to his Mom, he was very excited that she's befriended him since they both started playing the flute, and he really was just trying to match her silliness. I could literally feel the mortification going on in their house through the phone. His parents had him write an apology letter to give to her today.

I also discussed with the parents and the school's administration that, in light of the orange cheeto land we now live in, I feel like we as parents and educators need to be vigilant about rejecting this culture of being rude, racist and sexist. They all agreed.

Oh, and I also made it clear that, had there been the slightest indication that this was, in fact, intended as a racial slur, I would expect that any child using racial slurs be expelled. I was assured that would be the case. The tough part for me is, since my own kid doesn't know what being called an ape means in the broader context, I can't assume that her classmate knew either - if that makes sense.

Good response from the school and parents! (Or the best we can hope for?)

[thejackpot]

I am so sorry that your dd was treated that way. Kudos to her for standing up for herself and seeking help.
It's such a tough call. I have a 8 yr old and I am sure he doesn't know the ape/ monkey reference in relation to blacks. Maybe I am doing him a disservice but it has never crossed my mind to have that conversation. I would definitely talk to the teacher and see if a counselor could participate in any meeting between the parents.
I think the point that we should never put anyone down or call them any names should be strongly enforced. Let us know how it goes. I am sorry Momma.

[iammalcolmx]

threejs, I am glad meshaliuknits, @kirkette, don't have to whup a 4th graders ass. I love the response from the parents as well.

[thejackpot]

I think I was typing when you posted your update. Sounds like it was handled very well. Yay! I am so glad your dd was not scarred by it being a racial attack.

[threejs]

Feb 15, 2017 14:03:04 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

threejs , I am glad meshaliuknits , @kirkette , don't have to whup a 4th graders ass. I love the response from the parents as well.

LOL.  They were actually going to have to bail me out of jail since I was first in line to beat that kid's ass.  

[meshaliuknits]

Feb 15, 2017 14:50:10 GMT -5 threejs said:

Feb 15, 2017 14:03:04 GMT -5 iammalcolmx said:

threejs , I am glad meshaliuknits , @kirkette , don't have to whup a 4th graders ass. I love the response from the parents as well.

LOL.  They were actually going to have to bail me out of jail since I was first in line to beat that kid's ass.  

I have funds for this, trust.

[redwino]

I'm glad things worked out. You handled things well but I would have contributed to your bail fund if needed.

[cookiemdough]

This is was a good reaction from the parents. I am glad they were mortified and open for discussion.

As for some of the other questions regarding being proactive, i don't necessarily think a 4th grader knows it could be construed as a racial slur when initially used. But the teachers initial "I don't think little johnny meant anything by it" loses a teachable moment. If he doesn't get that is hurtful now then when he is in high school why would he know? I don't get to shield my child from being on the receiving end of racism, so other parents don't get to create a bubble for their kids either.

[andwhat]

Feb 16, 2017 8:32:21 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

I'm glad you had a good outcome.

As far as teaching your kids: I think starting with a blanket no name calling policy is best and then move into we don't compare people to animals and then moving into the racial component. I don't know what age the last part should happen but I think you all know your kids best and can gauge when they would understand.

I struggle with explaining these things to my kids as well. I think when moments like this occur it forces you to have the conversation. If I was the boy's parents I would absolutely take this moment to explain the racial component of his words.

Not on this subject, but I am having this issue when reading books about history to DD. We were reading about George Washington Carver and it was explaining that he couldn't go to the certain school because he was black. DD only has black people in her school and she did not understand the concept of that being an issue. Plus she is 3. These subjects are so hard.

[skwcm80]

I'm
So sorry your daughter had to go through that threejs. I'm glad there was an acceptable outcome.

[threejs]

Feb 16, 2017 16:13:27 GMT -5 cubed said:

threejs I am so sorry your daughter had to experience such an awful, hateful incident. I am glad that the outcome was acceptable but I hate that the teacher initially downplayed the comment. The kid may not have known the racial context but the teacher sure as shit did, and she should have modeled her reaction accordingly. Even if the kid didn't truly mean it a certain way, he will learn the true significance based on the adults' reactions. The teacher was the first adult and he got a different message than everyone else involved. I am glad his parents are definitely taking this seriously but the teacher's reaction counts too. It sounds like the administration feels the same way as you and the parents but they really need to emphasize to their teachers how to react going forward. This shit is serious, especially at 4th grade where kids start getting into their feelings about themselves and others.

I struggle all the time with when to bring stuff up like this and try to take a cue from DH.

Thank you! And thanks to everyone here for your support.  I didn't feel comfortable sharing this incident broadly, so I truly appreciate the support here.

I ended up speaking with just DD's teacher for about an hour on the phone the other night . He too apologized profusely for the way he phrased things initially.  He told me that as an openly gay man (which I suspected but wasn't sure about) he knows better than to immediately downplay this sort of thing. He said that knowing the kid involved, he honestly believed it wasn't meant in a racial context, and he thought telling me that would help calm me down because he knew I was going to be ready to burn shit down.  By the end of the conversation, we agreed that we will be friends when he's done teaching my kid.  lol. But yeah, we talked a lot about how problematic the way the whole thing was initially explained to me was.

[dr.girlfriend]

Feb 16, 2017 16:36:28 GMT -5 threejs said:

Feb 16, 2017 16:13:27 GMT -5 cubed said:

threejs I am so sorry your daughter had to experience such an awful, hateful incident. I am glad that the outcome was acceptable but I hate that the teacher initially downplayed the comment. The kid may not have known the racial context but the teacher sure as shit did, and she should have modeled her reaction accordingly. Even if the kid didn't truly mean it a certain way, he will learn the true significance based on the adults' reactions. The teacher was the first adult and he got a different message than everyone else involved. I am glad his parents are definitely taking this seriously but the teacher's reaction counts too. It sounds like the administration feels the same way as you and the parents but they really need to emphasize to their teachers how to react going forward. This shit is serious, especially at 4th grade where kids start getting into their feelings about themselves and others.

I struggle all the time with when to bring stuff up like this and try to take a cue from DH.

Thank you! And thanks to everyone here for your support.  I didn't feel comfortable sharing this incident broadly, so I truly appreciate the support here.

I ended up speaking with just DD's teacher for about an hour on the phone the other night . He too apologized profusely for the way he phrased things initially.  He told me that as an openly gay man (which I suspected but wasn't sure about) he knows better than to immediately downplay this sort of thing. He said that knowing the kid involved, he honestly believed it wasn't meant in a racial context, and he thought telling me that would help calm me down because he knew I was going to be ready to burn shit down.  By the end of the conversation, we agreed that we will be friends when he's done teaching my kid.  lol. But yeah, we talked a lot about how problematic the way the whole thing was initially explained to me was.

I think it's great that you guys were able to talk after and Monday-morning quarterback things.  I think it's easier to read about a situation and say "Of course, the best way to handle it would have been this..." but I think few of us are really that prepared when something unexpected happens.  I remember being in a situation where a fellow psychologist used the word "retarded" as a slur, and I was all, "What the hell did you just say?!" when I definitely could have approached the situation in a more teachable way, lol.
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[DesertMoon]

I'm so sorry for your baby.

If it was my son I would have wore him out when we got home. (He's 4 though) idk what age this stuff is supposed to be discussed but I talk to my son regularly about commenting on people's appearances. He has been called a "doggie" because he's pretty hairy. I always tell him that the way he felt that day is how it feels when people talk about your appearance and that it's unkind to do.

[bugandbibs]

My heart hurts for your baby. I'm glad you had a statisfactory outcome. I went to a mostly white independent day school and it was challenging as I got older.

[newnamesameperson]

I am so sorry this happened.

I hope you feel proud of your daughter for reporting it, and standing up for herself.

In this particular case, I think the parents responded appropriate. I do think you need to explain the broader context of the word to your child, regardless of whether the child meant it and in an age appropriate way (easier said, then done).

I have no idea how you go about this, so I definitely feel like a hypocrite suggesting it...

[sent]

I am late in reading and replying but I am so sorry. I don't for one second believe the kid was innocent.