Question: Articulate = Eloquent?

[childofhiphop]

In the post about Ifeoma White-Thorpe's accept to all of the Ivy Leagues, someone's first statement referred to her "eloquence."

It felt like when the first thing people say about POC, "you're so articulate" or "you speak so well."

I can't decide if I'm being too sensitive since it was in response to her video essay. But my mind reflected on the strength of her oration, her persuasiveness, her passion.

In my mind eloquence is a synonym for articulate. But, I'm not sure if I'm missing a usage or nuance for when to use either word.

Any thoughts?

[kicks]

I skimmed that post and thought the same thing.
At the conference I was at we had a fabulous black male surgeon speak (the only person of color that spoke of course, but that's another story). He talked about race and discrimination. One of the first comments when the mic was opened to questions was "you are so articulate"

I cringed. I don't think some white people realize they have those thoughts and say that and what it means.

[andwhat]

It would not surprise me if eloquent was the new articulate. They will always find a new way. Oh they say articulate is code and bad, now we will just use eloquent, they will never catch on.

[CrazyLucky]

This is one of the things that I would not have noticed. To me, articulate and eloquent are not the same, and I use the word eloquent to describe people frequently. But I'll stop.

[childofhiphop]

Apr 7, 2017 7:20:30 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

This is one of the things that I would not have noticed. To me, articulate and eloquent are not the same, and I use the word eloquent to describe people frequently. But I'll stop.

No sarcasm here.

But what is the difference to you? Why do you use eloquent so much?

[starlily]

I'll be a dissenter and say that I've always thought of eloquent as something different than articulate. To me eloquence goes beyond being articulate and involves having a way with words that is interesting and engaging with smooth transitions.

For example, all of my co-workers are articulate when they're giving their opening statement or closing arguments; there's good use of grammar and vocabulary. But the excellent attorneys are eloquent as well and really draw you into what they're saying. There's an expressiveness that goes beyond being articulate.

[CrazyLucky]

Apr 7, 2017 10:15:50 GMT -5 childofhiphop said:

Apr 7, 2017 7:20:30 GMT -5 CrazyLucky said:

This is one of the things that I would not have noticed. To me, articulate and eloquent are not the same, and I use the word eloquent to describe people frequently. But I'll stop.

No sarcasm here.

But what is the difference to you? Why do you use eloquent so much?

I guess in my mind, articulate means that you have a good vocabulary.  You know a lot of words and the meaning of them. Eloquent is more of a speaking or writing style.  You can be articulate and be extremely boring.  But eloquent speakers/writers grab my attention.  I'm not claiming those are the real differences, just what they mean to me.
Why do I use it?  I don't know, it just seems like the best word sometimes.  What word would you use?  I looked up eloquent on thesaurus.com.  None of them feel just right.

ETAstarlily313, said it better, perhaps even, more eloquently.

[childofhiphop]

Apr 7, 2017 10:18:41 GMT -5 starlily said:

I'll be a dissenter and say that I've always thought of eloquent as something different than articulate. To me eloquence goes beyond being articulate and involves having a way with words that is interesting and engaging with smooth transitions.

For example, all of my co-workers are articulate when they're giving their opening statement or closing arguments; there's good use of grammar and vocabulary. But the excellent attorneys are eloquent as well and really draw you into what they're saying. There's an expressiveness that goes beyond being articulate.

Thank you for replying.

I understand what you are saying in the legal context.

I think my gut feeling was more of a feeling of a micro-aggression.  When said to a POC, eloquent/articulate seem to imply an ascription of intelligence - in this case to an awesome young lady who was accepted into ALL of the Ivy League schools.  Why was the first comment that came to mind was "she was so eloquent"?  It has the same feeling of other terms (or "coded" language) for it is unusual for a person of color to be intelligent.  The same for the example in kicks response about the doctor.  He went through the same schools and training as any other doctor AND was honored to speak at a conference so he probably was an expert in the subject matter.  Why was the statement put before him that he was so articulate before asking a question?

[starlily]

childofhiphop -- I agree that context matters and I can see your point.

In looking back at your OP, this part: "But my mind reflected on the strength of her oration, her persuasiveness, her passion," are the things that would point to eloquence v. articulateness from my pov. But again, context, including who is making the reactionary comment, matters.

[borinquen57]

Apr 7, 2017 10:18:41 GMT -5 starlily said:

I'll be a dissenter and say that I've always thought of eloquent as something different than articulate. To me eloquence goes beyond being articulate and involves having a way with words that is interesting and engaging with smooth transitions.

For example, all of my co-workers are articulate when they're giving their opening statement or closing arguments; there's good use of grammar and vocabulary. But the excellent attorneys are eloquent as well and really draw you into what they're saying. There's an expressiveness that goes beyond being articulate.

I'm here. To me being eloquent goes far beyond "good" vocabulary. Honestly, I never gave "articulate"a second though until very recently. I've used it to describe POC and non-POC and never realized that it was coded language.

[skwcm80]

I read saw that post and had the exact reaction to the word eloquent.

[kicks]

Apr 7, 2017 19:17:26 GMT -5 borinquen57 said:

Apr 7, 2017 10:18:41 GMT -5 starlily said:

I'll be a dissenter and say that I've always thought of eloquent as something different than articulate. To me eloquence goes beyond being articulate and involves having a way with words that is interesting and engaging with smooth transitions.

For example, all of my co-workers are articulate when they're giving their opening statement or closing arguments; there's good use of grammar and vocabulary. But the excellent attorneys are eloquent as well and really draw you into what they're saying. There's an expressiveness that goes beyond being articulate.

I'm here. To me being eloquent goes far beyond "good" vocabulary. Honestly, I never gave "articulate"a second though until very recently. I've used it to describe POC and non-POC and never realized that it was coded language.

I was thinking last night. I don't think I've ever called anyone articulate but I realized that if I were to use the word I would say "that speech was so articulate" instead of saying "you are so articulate."

In my mind that makes a difference. And when anyone has ever said it to me they've said "you are so articulate" which has always been coded language for "you speak white" since that's the other thing people say the other half of the time. And when someone says you are so articulate I want to say no shit, what did you expect. But if someone said "that speech was so articulate" I think I'd feel differently.