HOA help

[mustardseed2007]

Oh wow I'm surprised an attorney didn't get a survey. I'm an attorney and I'm on my HOA board.

Facts I would be considering in your shoes:
1) Did the HOA have any understanding of what the fence line probably would be based on the walk?
2) Is your HOA approval in writing? If so, when you look at it does it say you will GIVE them the survey or does it just say you will get the survey?
3) Does it say anywhere that they have a right to see the survey ?

If they have an understanding of where they kind of think the fence line should be and they don't have a right to ask for a copy of the survey, then I might fence the yard based on the walk and move it if they make you.

Otherwise, I would approach them with what the actual property line is, and request a variance of the type of fence - perhaps a shorter, iron fence, so your yard doesn't seem so closed.

If they don't agree to the iron fence, then I'd try for the invisible fence.

[akafred]

mustardseed2007,

1) Did the HOA have any understanding of what the fence line probably would be based on the walk?

I don't know. I guess that depends on what you mean by "the HOA". Does that mean the person approving the fence request? Or the guy who said no to helping pay for the fallen tree removal? Or any given person who might walk by and say, huh, that seems too close or too far, we should make them move it. In which case no, no, possibly.

2) Is your HOA approval in writing? Yes. If so, when you look at it does it say you will GIVE them the survey or does it just say you will get the survey? It says we will get a survey and we agree to build the fence on the property line.

3) Does it say anywhere that they have a right to see the survey? No. But according to the fence guy who called a buddy at the HOA management company who doesn't manage my HOA but looked it up to be nice, my HOA are jerks about fences and have required several to be moved fairly recently. So I imagine they would demand to see it, we would say no, they would survey and then we would have to move the fence. It would cost us extra and we would open ourselves up to more scrutiny in the future.

I kinda wanted to do it anyway but now I think it's wiser not to. Hopefully the invisible fence thing works out. I think it will cost significantly less even if we go the full service route. And will look better.

[erinshelley21]

Jul 20, 2017 20:30:38 GMT -5 akafred said:

I kinda wanted to do it anyway but now I think it's wiser not to. Hopefully the invisible fence thing works out. I think it will cost significantly less even if we go the full service route. And will look better.

Factor in the costs of potentially having to move the iron fence as well. I don't know much about HOAs, but I'm sure they'll throw some sort of fine in there too. 

[twinmomma]

HOAs are not a thing around here, and this is fascinating to me. Why would they only allow massive, ugly privacy fences instead of a nice looking iron fence that keeps the neighborhood more open? So bizarre.

I hope the invisible fence option works out for your dog akafred!

[akafred]

Jul 21, 2017 8:07:20 GMT -5 erinshelley21 said:

Jul 20, 2017 20:30:38 GMT -5 akafred said:

I kinda wanted to do it anyway but now I think it's wiser not to. Hopefully the invisible fence thing works out. I think it will cost significantly less even if we go the full service route. And will look better.

Factor in the costs of potentially having to move the iron fence as well. I don't know much about HOAs, but I'm sure they'll throw some sort of fine in there too. 

The cost of "moving" the underground fence would be a couple hundred vs 1000 for a wood fence. There is no option for an iron fence so it's moot.

[akafred]

Jul 21, 2017 8:17:08 GMT -5 twinmomma said:

HOAs are not a thing around here, and this is fascinating to me. Why would they only allow massive, ugly privacy fences instead of a nice looking iron fence that keeps the neighborhood more open? So bizarre.

I hope the invisible fence option works out for your dog akafred!

I agree. I think iron/aluminum fences look classy. I even like chain link better than wood, honestly, just for the openness. I know that is definitely an UO though.

[erinshelley21]

Jul 21, 2017 8:52:41 GMT -5 akafred said:

Jul 21, 2017 8:07:20 GMT -5 erinshelley21 said:

Factor in the costs of potentially having to move the iron fence as well. I don't know much about HOAs, but I'm sure they'll throw some sort of fine in there too. 

The cost of "moving" the underground fence would be a couple hundred vs 1000 for a wood fence. There is no option for an iron fence so it's moot.

I'll be honest, I didn't read every single post and just remembered seeing iron fence at one point lol. Either way, invisible sounds a lot cheaper all around. 

[k3am]

Jul 21, 2017 8:53:57 GMT -5 akafred said:

Jul 21, 2017 8:17:08 GMT -5 twinmomma said:

HOAs are not a thing around here, and this is fascinating to me. Why would they only allow massive, ugly privacy fences instead of a nice looking iron fence that keeps the neighborhood more open? So bizarre.

I hope the invisible fence option works out for your dog akafred!

I agree. I think iron/aluminum fences look classy. I even like chain link better than wood, honestly, just for the openness. I know that is definitely an UO though.

I honestly can't see a reason that the HOA would know where an underground fence was and/or why they'd make you move it.

[akafred]

Jul 23, 2017 17:33:04 GMT -5 k3am said:

Jul 21, 2017 8:53:57 GMT -5 akafred said:

I agree. I think iron/aluminum fences look classy. I even like chain link better than wood, honestly, just for the openness. I know that is definitely an UO though.

I honestly can't see a reason that the HOA would know where an underground fence was and/or why they'd make you move it.

During training you use white flags to warn the dog where the wire is.

But I can't see them paying for a survey to mark where flags and wires are. A physical fence maybe if it is obviously close to the walking path, but not a wire.

[mustardseed2007]

I think doing the invisible fence first is a totally reasonable idea. And I'd do it where it makes sense to do it. Obviously a smaller area is cheaper anyway, but you don't have to go as small as your actual property line.

[2chatter]

FWIW, late to this, but here money talks...check out the lot size on your tax appraisal and compare to the survey. The tax appraisal may differ in your favor, and legally make the HOA land yours. Also, the 20 year rule is written as such, but here, there is precedent that if since inception or over a period of time...I would go head first into this and fight for that land. The property line kissing your patio is crazy.

We have a small battle going with neighbors across the creek. We mowed our fence line (iron fence) because they were not. In retaliation they stopped maintaining the trail that allows us easy access from our driveway to the creek. My end game is now to wait five years and get that land as ours as they aren't maintaining it.

[waverly]

2chatter , prior to us moving in and for about a year after the neighbors would mow about a foot of our yard. Neighbor (anger issues, known person with police) got really upset swearing and threatening H when H put dirt on our land because he thought it would make drainage worse for him. We buried our run offs, so obviously drainage is better with us than the previous owners. H dug up all the grass they were "maintaining" and put in shrubs so they couldn't claim it. It was like 1 foot of land but oh well its ours!

They also occasionally blow off our driveway with the leaf blower to be neighborly (weird people that like us and hate us at the same time?).  But I don't think that means they are maintaining it since we also care for our driveway.  They used to use it to turn around in, so I think that was their way of saying thank you? 

[2chatter]

waverly - your neighbors sound conflicted! Ours no longer live there, the house is empty, but they won't sell (ever). It's really strange. I think ours have control issues of some sort.

[186momx]

www.lowes.com/pd/No-Dig-Steel-Wire-Black-Garden-Fence/3464104

akafred, what about something like this as a temporary fence until you figure things out. We use this to keep our dog out of the garden and take it down each winter. Its super easy to install and move and if anything could be used as a puppy run gated area around the patio. Then when HOA makes a stink you say its temp and until you can figure out property lines and tax lots and schedule the actual fence people to install the fence in the correct location.

We had really bad luck with the invisible fence with our old lab. She got to the point she refused to go outside because she was so freaked out.

[akafred]

Jul 24, 2017 15:10:20 GMT -5 186momx said:

www.lowes.com/pd/No-Dig-Steel-Wire-Black-Garden-Fence/3464104

akafred, what about something like this as a temporary fence until you figure things out. We use this to keep our dog out of the garden and take it down each winter. Its super easy to install and move and if anything could be used as a puppy run gated area around the patio. Then when HOA makes a stink you say its temp and until you can figure out property lines and tax lots and schedule the actual fence people to install the fence in the correct location.

We had really bad luck with the invisible fence with our old lab. She got to the point she refused to go outside because she was so freaked out.

That's my big fear. That is why I am hiring the pros to help with installation and training rather than using a DIY system.

Temp fences are not allowed. :/

[jlaok]

Late response but I used to work at the city approving subdivision plans so I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

Depending on the age of your neighborhood you may be able to find the plat online which is the official document showing where the lot lines and common areas (neighborhood owned areas) are. You'll have to have the full name of your addition and the phase that it was built (this information should be on your tax assessor website). If you have trouble you can contact the City you live in and they can give you a copy of the plat. The lot lines should make reasonable sense so if yours is right off your patio your neighbors would be the same way. All cities will have a minimum lot size that had to be met before the subdivision would be approved. If you end up wanting to "buy" the portion of the land to make it your own you can do a lot split and file it with the city. You may ask them about this and get an idea of costs. You can definitely make the case that historically the owners have been using and maintaining that land as if it was part of the lot and not the common space.

I wouldn't do anything about the fence until you get more information but if it were me and I didn't want to fight I'd put the fence where you originally thought the lot line was. The chances of the HOA fighting you are slim.

[akafred]

jlaok, I have the plat. I have walked it and I still don't believe the survey completely. However, I am not flush with cash enough to fight anything. According to neighbors and the HOA guy who manages a *different* HOA for the same company, my HOA is a bag of dicks about this sort of thing. And my H kind of agrees because he went to high school with our HOA manager guy and said he was a jerk then (though 20 years have passed so...). It seems not worth a fight.

The difference between my neighbors and me is the back of my house seems to extend back further (both because of the footprint of the house and the angle of the walking path and the street) so their yards are bigger.