HOA help

[akafred]

We just bought and moved into our new house which has an HOA. The house backs up to HOA land (a walking trail). We are putting in a fence, which the HOA approved based on walking the property with the fence guy. We opted to have a survey done even though it isn't required because we don't want to give up a single inch because the yard is very small. Well, it's a LOT smaller than we thought. One back corner is about 8 feet closer to the house than we thought, but the other is just devastating. It barely extends past our 10x10 patio. We based our assumptions on the property line based on mulch and landscaping that someone (previous owners?) had put in as well as some natural landscaping (some rocks create a natural retaining wall) and where the HOA stops maintaining the walking path. Well we actually own only about 1' x 3' corner of that mulch and none of the rocks etc. It literally divides our very small rectangular yard into a triangle half that size. I love the house and neighborhood, but I honestly think it would have been a deal killer for me. And we have to have a fence because our dog will run off and is not fully reliable with house training. Building on the property line will leave us with a yard so small I think it will look terrible. Not much bigger than one of those town houses with the fenced patio space.

As I see it we have 4 choices:
1) don't build a fence
2) build it where we want it and move it if they make us
3) apply for a variance and most likely be denied
4) build it on the property line.

I am GUTTED. Crying at work gutted. Does anyone have experience with HOA's and this sort of thing? What would you do in my shoes?

[xctsclrx]

I would say that if HOA approved your plan while you where walking the fence line with the fence guy then I think you are fine. If they tell you to move it then move it.

Plus the HOA may not know where the land ends and starts and they don't want ugly so if they do they might not say anything. If you have your plan signed off on then you do have something legal to stand on if they ask you to move it in my personal opinion.

[twinmomma]

I'd probably just pretend the survey didn't happen and go with the walk through plan the HOA approved. Chances are they won't care, right? They already approved it and the landscaping was there before you.

[kimberlybb]

Could you do an invisible fence? If that isn't an option, I would do the fence where you originally planned since you already have verbal approval from your HOA.

[k3am]

I think the old adage that it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission applies here. Especially since you were already given permission...

[xctsclrx]

I think the invisible fence is a great idea!

[akafred]

I think the dog would get a shock and take off and never come back again because of fear of shock with an invisible fence. She is dumb.

I did find out the fence company submitted the documents for approval which said they would build on the property line and that we were getting a survey. So I think we would have to move the pins which would be very dishonest.

[freezorburn]

Are you mostly concerned about the size of the area to be fenced in? Are views also a concern? How big is your dog/how tall does the fence actually need to be? What I'm getting at is that maybe if privacy isn't your primary concern, if dog is on the small side you might be able to make do with a shorter fence that looks good, still allows views but contains the dog.

[mommyatty]

Put the fence where you want it. I'm not a Tennessee lawyer, so I don't know the adverse possession rules there, but if historically the homeowner of that lot has acted like a certain area was theirs, if they did it for long enough, that area might have been theirs. In any event, the HOA hasn't seemed to give a rip about the property line by your description of who is taking care of what from a maintenance standpoint, so just build the fence, knowing you may have to move it.

[indyrowergirl]

Is an easement involved? Our property line extends 5 ft into an easement. We built on that line (rather than within the easement) with the understanding that if the city needs to do work in the easement, we will need to remove that portion of the fence.

That being said, I'm with mommyatty- build where the walk through said you would and be prepared for possible fallout. (I would also find out the impact to any future sale of your home.)

[akafred]

freezorburn, the HOA only allows a 6' privacy fence. If I could I would get an iron type fence (aluminum these days) for the view, but it isn't allowed.

mommyatty it looks like (quick Google) adverse possession is 20 years and the house was built around 2002. Does that matter?

[akafred]

Jul 19, 2017 14:37:09 GMT -5 indyrowergirl said:

Is an easement involved? Our property line extends 5 ft into an easement. We built on that line (rather than within the easement) with the understanding that if the city needs to do work in the easement, we will need to remove that portion of the fence.

That being said, I'm with mommyatty- build where the walk through said you would and be prepared for possible fallout. (I would also find out the impact to any future sale of your home.)

I don't know. The fence guy said something about that, that sometimes they build fences knowing that they may have to knock it down for utility work or something...

[waverly]

No advice, I just wanted to say I am sorry. I am surprised that the real estate agent didn't point out the boundaries of the property. Since you had a survey done anyway its probably a moot point, but I would have thought the boundaries would be on file at the village or city, maybe.

[rere]

I may at least try the invisible fence. We had one for a while and it wasn't too expensive, maybe around $300. We have a pretty big lab and while not the dumbest, maybe not the brightest either when there is a squirrel or rabbit involved. We don't even use it now, because she knows her boundaries.

[akafred]

Another problem with the invisible fence is if we got another dog. Most rescues won't allow you to foster or adopt if you have an invisible fence. Also I wouldn't feel very comfortable leaving her outside without supervision and she just will not go potty in our yard with an audience. Sigh.

[l504]

I have not been happy with our invisible fence. The battery will die and it gives no warning. We had tried replacing the battery every couple of months, but even that isn't reliable.

[indyrowergirl]

Jul 19, 2017 14:46:35 GMT -5 akafred said:

Jul 19, 2017 14:37:09 GMT -5 indyrowergirl said:

Is an easement involved? Our property line extends 5 ft into an easement. We built on that line (rather than within the easement) with the understanding that if the city needs to do work in the easement, we will need to remove that portion of the fence.

That being said, I'm with mommyatty- build where the walk through said you would and be prepared for possible fallout. (I would also find out the impact to any future sale of your home.)

I don't know. The fence guy said something about that, that sometimes they build fences knowing that they may have to knock it down for utility work or something...

I would get clarification on this. It's my understanding (but I'm not a lawyer) that if you build on the easement, you're ok as it's your property. It's just that you have to allow access if needed. In my case our backyard backs up to a drainage easement. That easement is my property (per the plat) but if the city needs to come dig up the storm drain I have to allow them access (including ripping out my fence if needed).

Here's more general info:
www.trulia.com/blog/property-right-and-easements/

[waverly]

I don't think surveys are filed, so I guess a lie, but you could tell fence company you decided not to get the survey and build where you and HOA indicated. Might be too late for that though...

I just mean we didn't need a survey when we built our fence. We just said build it here. However we have retaining walls so our property line is more obvious. And we don't have an HOA. But I don't think surveys are necessarily required. However now you had the convo with them indicating doubt on the property line then that opens the door more to them wanting it.

Your yard sounds too small and too city and too much HOA, but a play pen is an option. My mom had a pretty large one off the garage. Dog was in the garage and house mostly and then went through a dog door to a play pen for the bathroom. Yours would have to be super small, but hers was probably 7 by 10 maybe.

[HeartofCheese]

I would bet the fencing company will build wherever you tell it to build and you can show them that you got the HOA's permission. I'd built it along the line you thought was yours, also

[kbw]

My fear with doing it where you walked is what if they make you tear it out and won't allow you to reinstall it on your line? And what type of cost would you be looking at for that?

I'm surprised you didn't have to have a survey done prior to buying. I believe nys law is that surveys have to be done anytime a property is sold.

[akafred]

Surveys are unheard of here at property sale. It isn't even a contingency in a standard contract. You get appraisal, financing, and inspection. No survey.

I think we are hosed. The people we're talking to including the fence company say our HOA are aholes about this kind of thing.

[freezorburn]

I'm sorry this is such a tough situation.

Trying to think out of the box here .... Rather than fencing in the entire yard, I wonder if the HOA would allow you to fence off a small section of your yard if you called it a dog run, then maybe you might have some flexibility as to how it looks? I know a dog run would make a lot of the yard unusable for anything else, but at least when you are on the patio you might not feel as closed in? IDK, there is probably no ideal solution here.

[campermom]

Oh man this is a tough situation. I'm so sorry!

We have an invisible fence and while it works for us in a very low traffic neighborhood, our dog still gets out sometimes. Usually because she is 10 and we lax on putting the collar on.

I'm wondering about your nearby neighbors. Do any of them have a fence and what does it look like for them? I wouldn't ask them or tell them about your survey though, keep this situation quiet. Even if they are trustworthy, you never know.

Another thing to consider Are implications on resale. Do you think it is your forever house? If you move one day and the sale is contingent on a survey, I'd worry that potential owners would want you to pay to have it moved.

That all being said, What if you do this option.

You can do an invisible fence for really cheap. Here are some options-if it doesn't come up I searched dog fence. www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/Dog%20fence

Dig a trench-type thing for the dog line (there's some kind of tool I can ask DH) and drop it yourself. For the driveway, DH used some special saw to cut it, dropped the line then used black caulk to cover it. Edit: he used a spade for the yard and just a circular saw on the driveway. Ours came with flags and training directions. This doesn't help the future rescue dog situation, but avoids the dilemma of the property line issue.

I'd see how that goes, use the collar religiously and if it isn't working out I'd build the fence. Where I wanted it, knowing it may need to be moved one day.

[akafred]

We have a neighbor 2 houses down with a fence. It is set back fairly far but from the look of it it is not on the diagonal path my back property line has. That made no sense. It may align with my furthest back stake, but since the other corner is WAY further forward, our property line actually makes a steep diagonal across our "yard." That is, according to the online plat, the same slope as the neighbors have. At any rate their yard is much bigger than ours would be because their house is set forward further.

[akafred]

See if this works.


If so, the left side is the actual yard. The right is what we thought was yard. That wooden play set is dinky, by the way. It looks much bigger than it is.

ETA you can see the neighbor's fence. From that angle the corner of the fence is quite a ways up behind that tree or those trees.

[akafred]

And this shows what got cut off.

[HeartofCheese]

Can you buy the land you thought you had and sue the sellers for the costs?

[saraml13]

Did you have an attorney at closing? I'm really surprised that no one raised any concerns about clarifying the property line given that the house backs up to HOA property. I would go back to the attorney and ask for advice.

[mellym]

I have no experience here, just wanted to say I'm sorry you're just finding this out and having to deal with it. Surveys aren't a thing before buying a house here either.

[akafred]

Jul 20, 2017 8:15:29 GMT -5 saraml13 said:

Did you have an attorney at closing? I'm really surprised that no one raised any concerns about clarifying the property line given that the house backs up to HOA property. I would go back to the attorney and ask for advice.

We had an attorney but it was a very wham bam thank you ma'am thing.