Educational assessments

[agedsubaru]

Hi.

I am anticipating a paying for a private educational eval.. you know me better as bubbalicious. I finally made my way over.

Dd had a neuropsych last year where we finally got the dylalexia and other s.l.d. Dx.Dd's language disorder or severe articulation disorder makes assessment tricky. I am interested in CTOPP and woodcock Johnson. One company i spoke with doesn't favor these assessment tools. I don't have a solid enough grasp on what I should look for just yet

If anyone has any information about types of assessments and determining appropriate, I would greatly appreciate it. I am open to all feedback.

Thanks!

[freezorburn]

I don't know anything about these assessments but just wanted to welcome you to the board!

[auntie]

Hi!

What do you hope to gain from additional testing that wasn't teased out in the neuropsych? Who are you looking at to complete the educational assessment- a private clinician, pediatric hospital or a therapeutic school/clinic?

Did the company say why they don't favor these particular tools? Could it because they don't currently own them or because they're too time consuming or do they have something better?

I don't see Woodcock Johnson used very often; usually those skills would be explored with a comparison on WISC and WIAT. Reading is often teased out with tests developed by Slingerland and Peabody. I've not heard of the first test, perhaps it's a newer one.

[agedsubaru]

The neurospych didn't look at educational programs. It did diagnose her sld's but not the necessary programs. I wouldn't advocate the educational assessment for all but dd is trickier than most. Her reading (reading milesstones)program is geared to certificate v diploma. I need more clarification about what would work for her. There aren't any reading specialists at her current school which I don't see as a positive.

I am looking at 2 companies. One is local and very responsive to questions. They don't like CTOPP and WJ because these assessments are not as informative as specific academic benchmarks. They use Fontas and Pinell, WADE, Dolch, and DEIBELs. DD's phonological awarness is very poor. She doesnt have but maybe 20 sounds of the 44. The CTOPP could help with that piece? Maybe? IDK. It was used for DS's school based assessment this year.

For most I wouldn't look at an educational assessemnt due to cost but before i hire an attorney, I want a better picture of what direction we are going.

[agedsubaru]

Auntie. This is bubbalicious from the previous board.

[mamaturtle]

Welcome back to our board!

[auntie]

If it's what the school district used for your DS, can you ask them to run the CTOPP on your DD?

Where is your DD attending school now?

IME, a "reading specialist" never brought much to the party for DS. None of the ones he had in public school had any real rigorous training in the more effective reading programs like Orton or Lindamood Bell. I ran into a few who had done a "quicky" Wilson training, but Wilson would not be my first choice.

[macchiatto]

No experience with those assessments but it's good to see you over here!

[cam]

No advice for you, but glad to see you over here.

[waverly]

Sorry to jump in on the post, waverly here- hi!

auntie, my nephew is 12 and failing all his classes because of his reading. I was told that he still reverses his letters, which I told sis that is not age appropriate that he should have outgrown it, and advised her to ask for an evaluation. I read that they should have outgrown that around age 7. I am not sure if she will go through with it though. Would you recommend these kind of reading programs for older kids? Sis did put him in reading tutoring and there was no difference/ change. I said the program may have made a difference for example one that specializes in dyslexia.

My mom also added that it could be ADHD. He is hyper focused/ obsessed on 2 topics, one being video games. When it comes to homework it takes him 3 times as long as other kids (which is another red flag to me), and then he won't turn it in due to not caring or not being organized, I'm not sure. He hates school which unfortunately school is not taught to be important by his dad. Mom tries, but dad is not interested in education. Otherwise he is normal on all other areas- motor skills, speech etc. so autism doesn't seem probable.

[auntie]

Hi waverly,

Given what you've written, I am surprised the school hasn't started the process of doing a RTI program or even a full multifactored evaluation even if the parents haven't insisted.

Letter reversals don't generally get the experts excited until about age 10. I would encourage your sister to request a multifactored eval- in writing- like today. If your nephew does have dyslexia, he's approaching an age where full remediation may not be possible. The best outcomes come when a child is exposed to an effective program well before puberty; it's a bit like learning a language- easier while the brain is more plastic.

It's hard to co-parent with someone who doesn't share your values; doubly hard if the child chooses to identify with the parent who doesn't hold them to a more challenging standard. Are they together as a couple? Could dad have learning issues himself and be over-identifying with the child so that mom's concern feels like at attack on him?

Most kids with ADHD learn to read pretty easily unless they have a comorbid learning difference in which case the combination of the two will make instruction and learning so much more of a challenge. Meds, behavior mods and even tweaking how and where he is taught can help a great deal.

Nothing here screams ASD to me, but given the way you describe his feelings about video games, it could be a "special interest". It would be unlikely to be an issue at this age unless you are also seeing poor social skills with peers.

Does he have trouble decoding- matching symbol to sound to meaning? Or can he read but not comprehend either because of working memory or the inability to make inferences from the text? Can he report a remote event logically without including random detail or skipping over critical pieces? Would the retelling be in an order that made sense? How does he do with written composition? Does he have trouble actually producing handwriting or does he feel like there's a disconnect between the ideas in his head and the paper he's supposed to put the on? How's he do with math and problem solving skills?

It's hard to recommend a reading program without knowing what is interfering with ability to use reading as a tool for learning. Whatever they're doing now isn't working, so more of whatever that is won't likely work better. Usually a multisensory reading program is suggested, but unless you know why he's struggling you can't fine tune it to meet his exact needs. And such testing can be difficult to make happen.

My 2 favorite programs are Orton Gillingham and Lindamood Bell. Neither is easy to come by in a public or mainstream indie school. Lindamood Bell does have free standing clinics which can evaluate and provide tutoring in some communities. They also offer a couple different programs aimed at different glitches associated with dyslexia.

As for the non-compliance with homework. That can be driven by a lot of issues. It could be executive function deficits related to ADHD or a "value judgement" where he doesn't feel the task is important. DS was a combination of the two, but I know other kids who did this to redirect around how hard school is for them- better to be seen as "bad" than "dumb".

[waverly]

I encouraged her to write the letter. Probably she has to turn it in when school starts. I am surprised they didn't mention an evaluation also. Sis talked about holding him back as a consequence and the school said the research doesn't show that helpful and that sounded like the extent of their last conversation before summer.

Dad and mom are together. Dad doesn't have a learning disability but he struggled with school. It was a lot of excuses like he moved in high school and said he already learned it and then didn't do much at new school. He could have duel enrolled or done calculus etc.

He enrolled in community college after H.S. and didn't really go to the classes. Said the teacher never showed up multiple times at least 3-4 and stopped going. It's possible but probably more excuses as I doubt a teacher could be no call no show that many times or that many classes but I don't know community college that well.

Social skills are not terrible but not great since he only wants to talk about himself and his 2 interests. He tends to befriend the underdogs/ misfits because I think they show him more attention. Mom says he has empathy I think it's more attention seeking or he doesn't jive with the more mature kids.

I am not sure on all the reading questions. I know he wrote something out and then my sister read it, and it made no sense. Could be the disconnect from mind to writing.

[auntie]

Aug 7, 2017 12:32:28 GMT -5 waverly said:

I encouraged her to write the letter. Probably she has to turn it in when school starts. I am surprised they didn't mention an evaluation also. Sis talked about holding him back as a consequence and the school said the research doesn't show that helpful and that sounded like the extent of their last conversation before summer.

There's a book "Emotions to Advocacy" that would be useful reading for your sister ahead of writing the letter. Once the school receives it and gives her a copy of the procedural safeguards, the 60 instructional day clock starts. If he is deemed in need of IEP services, they get another 30 school days to complete the IEP- that takes him to the second semester of the year. Best to get the letter in ahead of opening day. 

Dad and mom are together. Dad doesn't have a learning disability but he struggled with school. It was a lot of excuses like he moved in high school and said he already learned it and then didn't do much at new school. He could have duel enrolled or done calculus etc.

He enrolled in community college after H.S. and didn't really go to the classes. Said the teacher never showed up multiple times at least 3-4 and stopped going. It's possible but probably more excuses as I doubt a teacher could be no call no show that many times or that many classes but I don't know community college that well.

Sounds a little fishy. It could be dad was bright enough to pass- a lot of smart kids with LD issues do slip through the cracks, especially years ago. FWIW, I know a fair number of kids with dyslexia who are very strong with math- so yeah, maybe he could have kicked ass in calculus. 

Social skills are not terrible but not great since he only wants to talk about himself and his 2 interests. He tends to befriend the underdogs/ misfits because I think they show him more attention. Mom says he has empathy I think it's more attention seeking or he doesn't jive with the more mature kids.

Or it could be the well developing kids blow him off which is hard to accept as a parent. His limited conversation topics is very immature for a middle schooler- he might benefit from a Michelle Garcia Winner social thinking program. They're mostly for higher functioning kids on spectrum, but DS's old SLP had great success using "Think Social" with more socially inept middle schoolers with ADHD.

I am not sure on all the reading questions. I know he wrote something out and then my sister read it, and it made no sense. Could be the disconnect from mind to writing.

Could be. Or it could be poor organizational thinking, poor central coherence or some combination. Often delayed readers are poor writers because reading begets writing. If you avoid reading because you don't enjoy it or it's too damned hard, you won't easily produce good quality writing. One thing that helped DS write better was a Scholastic program called Read 180 which forced him to spend an hour daily reading and writing about what he read. 

Good luck. I hope you can get some answers and help for your nephew.

[waverly]

auntie, definitely a little fishy. He tends to be one of those all talk type people with little research or school smarts to back it up, but tends to be good at hands on activities.

I agree there is an element of immaturity.

Thanks for the info. I'll pass it along.