"Would you ever...?": Divorce edition

[HeartofCheese]

Would you ever continue to own a house with your XH?

[frozenpeas]

And both live in it?

[HeartofCheese]

No. Just me with 50/50 custody of kids. XH is getting an apartment. Two bedroom. Anyone have any thoughts about a 3yo girl and a 4yo boy sharing a room? It's only for a year or two until XH can buy a house. Which we've agreed will be within a mile or two of me FBO the kids.

ETA: In terms of paying the mortgage and repairs and such, we're doing some weird things. For the mortgage, we're combining both his rent and my mortgage and he's paying 55% of it. This was my idea b/c I am very serious about making sure the kids have 2 good homes. And if I bankrupt MH, they will have one shitty home and no food and a horrible time. As for expenses, we split it 55/45. Not sure what to do, however, when he wants to buy or whenever we decide to sell or refi. His income will continue to go up while mine is likely to be a little stagnant. I expect to adjust the ratio as this occurs for expenses; however, I don't know how to calculate the future proceeds from the sale. I guess we would just agree to a number less than the future ration, but more than the current ratio?

[mustardseed2007]

My 3 yo girl and 5 yo boy share a room. It's fine.

I think it's not uncommon for one parent to keep the house and the divorce decree says that it will be sold when the kids move out or some such like that with one person getting 45% and the other getting 55% or something like that. It wouldn't be my preference but I could see it happening.

[k3am]

No problems with kids sharing a room.

The house thing is a little unusual, but then again, I'm not divorced/divorcing and I don't know many folks who have. (In fact the only couples I know who are divorced did so with no kids in the picture, so an entirely different scenario.) It sounds reasonable for now, but probably not my preference.

[twinmomma]

It seems like it would be safer/cleaner for the house to be entirely in your name, but he pays child support to offset your costs. This is based on the zero knowledge I have about how these things work. But I'd be afraid to legally own a place with my ex-husband.

[supertrooper1]

We purchased our house from a divorced couple. It did not work out for them. They had been divorced for 3-4 years when we bought the house. He was supposed to take care of the outside and she was supposed to take care of the inside. They fought a lot and neither of them did a good job with the upkeep because they fought. We moved in December 1st, and the lawn had not been mowed since August, which was his job. She would go outside and hit golf balls towards the house, since he was responsible for the outside and broke a window.

If you can remain civil, I don't see a problem. But if someone turns shitty, I could see it being a problem.

[mustardseed2007]

Are you going to use a divorce attorney or are you going to represent yourself? I just ask because there are definitely ways that this kind of thing is commonly done. Attorneys know about them but your local state bar might have a handbook or a white paper that gives suggestions. In Texas the the Texas Young Lawyer's Association publishes a pro se divorce handbook, the division of a house is something that is talked about in there. that's not going to be a good standard if you are in a different jurisdiction with different rules, but your state may have something similar.

[jlaok]

No problem with kids sharing a room.

I would definitely talk to a lawyer about the house, especially if the mortgage is in both your names. I can see wanting to stay in the house (if it makes sense financially) to keep some stability for the kids. I'd just write the terms of the agreement as Ex-H pays $$/month for house mortgage and maintenance. I would try to make it a set number instead of fluctuating for change in expenses. You might write in an agreed amount for repairs per year or just address it as it comes. As far as when you sell it would make sense that his portion would decrease depending on the number of years you live there solo. Maybe you can create some sort of scale that he agrees to (i.e. 1-3 years 55/45, 3-5 years 60/40, etc.)

If the separation is friendly, which it kind of sounds like it is, I could see this working fine. I would just make sure that everything is written out and agreed to by the lawyers.

[mommyatty]

I would be less concerned with ownership of the house and more concerned with the "adjusting the ratio" part. My brother had a deal where his ex kept the house, but she had 5 years to refinance so it was in her name only. And when she put it in her name, she had to pay him 50% of their equity in the house as of the day she refinanced. If 5 years passed and she couldn't do that, then the house would be sold and equity split 50/50. So in other words, she had 5 years to buy him out or move. Their incomes were very comparable, which was why 50/50 worked.

[traveltheworld]

I don't see issues with either owning a house with your ex or the kids sharing a room. A few couples we know are doing this - all are very amicable divorces though and have only been a few years, so I don't know if the arrangement will work in the long run. Another interesting one is that a family we know is doing "nesting": where the kids always stay in the family home, and the parents rotate in and out of that house. During the other times, the mom stays with her sister and the Dad stays in his own small apartment. That one seems to be working really well.

[xctsclrx]

Kind of funny/irritating story.

When Dh and his ex split he quick claimed the house to her. However, she never took his name of off the house mortgagee. She was told she couldn't refinance until she missed a few payments was hurting his credit because of it,but he didn't notice because his credit took a major hit because of the divorce. He didn't find out about it until she needed a insurance claim done on it and he had to sign. That was 5 years after the fact.

So owning the house together is fine as long as one person is a 100% responsible for it, and both people are aware, or he could give the house to you with either the stipulation being if/when you sold it he gets half of what you have in equity now or whatever % you guys agree too.

I would be concerned with the adding the rent and house together and doing a percentage of the cost.

for example if his rent is 1000 and your mortgage is 1500 you are paying 1125 of the mortgage which is 75% of the mortgage. If I was in your position and you can cover the mortgage right now I would do so.

As for adjusting child support and such. If you can keep it out of the courts it might work. Outside of that in my state at least a court won't revisit unless there has been a greater that 10 percentage change in circumstances. Can I suggest that maybe instead of the shared house thing you make the agreement that each of you are responsible for each other dwelling and then maybe do a 60/40 split of kids expenses. Daycare, clothes,after school activities, health insurance and appointments. That way as expense go up or down you both reap the benefits of hardships of everything. This will require you guys to be very civil and very good co-parents, but It would be probably easier to do.

Also, peoples feelings tend to get hurt in divorce situations. It usually better to not have any shared assets in case someone turns bitter.

[msn06]

I had a friend whose divorce decree stated she could keep the house and it was hers (so all equity and maintenance was hers) but she had it written that she did not have to refinance the house. I could do something like but I wouldn't want my ex to have a say in repairs or the equity post divorce.

Edit: also if I was the one owning the house and making the payments I could handle. I'm pretty positive I couldn't do it reverse with my ex owning the house.

[sacattack]

As a divorcee - I would not do this - tensions arise and relationships change post divorce and the less you have to bicker over the better. Even though you may get along now it may not always be that way.

As for sharing rooms - that is totally fine.

[2chatter]

I would not be down with that, but I think I am really different than 99 percent of the population in that I HAVE TO BE totally independent for my sanity (this is why my first marriage ended - extreme financial issues). I did not and do not rely on my ex for anything. I took all marital debt and paid it all off myself. I saved 10K the first year I was divorced as my safety net. I lived in a smaller home so I could send the girls to private school.

Long story short - a million bad things could happen ranging from job loss to a new partner to ANYTHING. It's amicable now, but that house of cards could fall when he is ready to buy a home etc.

So I would set CS, include any amount you agree to and set it up for enforcement, but try not to count that extra in your budget. Move to a different home that you can afford without his help if needed. That's stability for the kids, and prevents a lot of heart ache down the road.

I could also tell you about the opposite side - we paid DH's ex wife's mortgage (for the sake of the kids) so she sold her house so we could not control her in that way (you read that right), leased it back, never paid rent and was evicted. By her own mother. Divorce makes people crazy - that took four years to happen. Best gift ever to us though!!

[Covergirl82]

While I don't have personal experience with divorce (outside of my maternal grandparents being divorced, but they had reconciled (although didn't remarry or live together) by the time I was born, and they were always very amicable with one another), it is a very emotional thing, and emotions can change over time. I can see things getting ugly if one of the former married couple starts seeing someone or decides to get remarried. Then you have another person who will have an opinion on finances.

I don't see any issue with room-sharing right now (maybe 5+ years down the road). A client of my DCP's still has her almost 7-yo DD and 5-yo DS sharing a room due to space limitations, but she has never mentioned issues with her kids sharing.

[phdmomma]

Kids sharing a room, yes, no worries. Particularly in HCOL areas people do that all the time.

I personally hate owning a home (we are on our second due to moving), and all of the money for repairs and maintenance is such a resource suck, that I would rather move into a rental or a condo. The thing that I've been told by friends who have gotten divorced is that although things may be amicable now, that they may not stay that way. I would sell and move, preferably into a condo or a rental.

[HeartofCheese]

My instincts are telling me not to for all the reasons you all indicated, but the kids wouldn't be able to live in any house with anyone if we don't. And that just feels like a really huge deal. I feel like it would be soulcrushing to them to lose *so much.* The other options aren't any good:

1. Refi: closing costs are too expensive, payment would not be anymore affordable than it is now, and I would owe H his share of the equity.
2. Selling and buying something else: We lose the new roof, new furnace, new water heater, new washer for a slightly lower mortgage (i.e., maybe $50/mo) on a house with an old roof, old furnace, old water heater, and old appliances.
3. Selling and renting a house: home rentals are the same or more as my mortgage.
4. Selling and renting an apt: financially the most desirable option. I'd be able to buy a new house in a year or two, but no outdoor space for kids, we'd have to sell or store their 101 outdoor toys, they would be living in two separate boxes with each parent (who would probably be living in the same complex...). Plus I'd have to rent a storage unit.

We are pretty amicable right now. MH has a huge aversion to child support, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get any anyway where we're sharing them 50/50 and our incomes are so close. Independence is a big thing to me - i.e., it is what a person seeks when she gets divorced; but I would try to make it work if my kids could stay in a house (preferably the one we have now). 

ETA: Honestly, if anything went downhill b/t H and I, we could just sell the house and reevaluate. #4 is always an option.

[2chatter]

If he's down with you keeping the house and you don't need to rely on him to pay the mortgage or make repairs, just write that into the decree. Wife retains possession of marital home until youngest child graduates high school, at which time equity from the sale will be divided in X way.

Or you can set it for five years to either sell or refi, which may appeal to both of you more for different reasons.

[akafred]

When you own a house, your mortgage stays the same forever unless you have an ARM or refinance. When you rent an apartment, your rent goes up every year. Which isn't fair to you. Also he may decide to buy a house or get remarried and move in with his new wife or any number of things that would change your circumstances too much for this to work out. I would consider owning a home nominally with my ex but the agreement you laid out here would never work for me and does not seem to be a long range plan. I have heard of situations where she can live in the home X years but is responsible for the mortgage and maintenance (can use CS of course), and after X years she has to sell and split the equity a certain way or buy him out of his portion of the equity. When I split with my ex I was 100% not ok with keeping my name on the mortgage in any way, shape, or form. He had to refinance to keep the house (his mommy bought it for him since he didn't have a fucking job). I knew he would kill my credit if I didn't get my name off the mortgage. Maybe on purpose.

At that age a shared room is fine.

[akafred]

I recommend talking to an experienced loan originator. They can talk you through refi options. You might be able to cash out equity and roll your closing costs into the loan moving forward. In my area values have increased so much that it might be possible to do more than you think to buy him out. You could also consider trading things like future CS or negotiating 401ks and other savings. Hang in there. You'll work it out.

[saraml13]

Given your constraints, I can understand continued joint ownership of the home with exH. However, I don't really understand the combining rent and expenses and then splitting all that. I would just agree on a set amount of support from him (that won't bankrupt him) and apply that towards the mortgage and maintenance. It sounds like a huge hassle to be constantly recalculating payment each month based on things like changing rent, unexpected minor maintenance, etc. Maybe include an agreement that you will split large capital improvement type maintenance costs over a certain $ amount (e.g. new HVAC). I like the idea of 5 year time line to refi or sell so that there is an end date to the arrangement.

[sandandsea]

Nope. I would want to cut all ties and fully separate. Which means we would have to sell our current Home.

[xctsclrx]

Instead of say child support can he agree to pay for daycare of the children until children are in kindergarten and then he pays after school care.

If he is against child support and it's important to him for the kids to stay in a house he can volunteer to cover some of the big expenses kids have that will eventually go away.

If you guys go to court you may not get child support, but I guarantee that he will have to pay at least half of child care and health insurance.

[xctsclrx]

HeartofCheese, I know you are trying to be very civil and mature about this, however I really think your best bet is to get a consult with an attorney. He/She might be able to give you some more options, or examples of what they have seen. I am not saying drag him through court, but you might need some help navigating.

I think there are also mediators out there you might be able to help and give you guys some examples.

[mommyatty]

Aug 1, 2017 12:47:13 GMT -5 xctsclrx said:

HeartofCheese, I know you are trying to be very civil and mature about this, however I really think your best bet is to get a consult with an attorney. He/She might be able to give you some more options, or examples of what they have seen. I am not saying drag him through court, but you might need some help navigating.

I think there are also mediators out there you might be able to help and give you guys some examples.

Yes! In some states, there is something called a "collaborative divorce". You each have an attorney, but if the attorneys can't pretty rapidly come to a settlement, neither attorney can keep up the representation. They both have to step aside. So this provides an incentive for positive, speedy resolution instead of protracted negotiations and ending up in front of a judge. I would look for something like that.

[freezorburn]

We did a collaborative divorce.

A good collaborative divorce attorney will help you discuss your individual and joint priorities and come up with solutions that are workable for everyone. Ours had us do intake questionnaires, which helped us get to our solutions pretty quickly.

It was important to me to keep the house, and he didn't want it. He wanted to keep certain financial assets that were not as important to me.

So instead of splitting the house like Solomon's baby, we came up with a way for me to keep the house by having my ex keep a larger share of our financial assets.

We executed a quit claim deed so that the house is fully in my name. The loan on the house is still in his name, but I make the payments and he gets to file it on his taxes. I'm supposed to refinance in my name once I have built up my credit scores and employment history enough from being off of work for almost 5 years.

I agree with others to come up with as clean an agreement as possible now, rather than something where you continue to have shared financial responsibility for the house with a long-term exit strategy. Even if you have an agreement about maintenance and repairs, for example, your ex might come to resent that he is on the hook for those expenses, since he does not live there. If he is already opposed to paying CS, I don't imagine he will feel very generous of the slightest perception that he would be helping you out with housing, never mind whether or not there is a long term benefit for him in the eventual sale of the house.

[erinshelley21]

I wouldn't. The split of the rent and mortgage sounds complicated and divorces can get messy despite both sides going in with the best intentions.

[kbw]

The only way I could do it is if he essentially paid support and I applied it to whatever bill for the house I found necessary. The percentage split would make me very nervous.

[freezorburn]

HeartofCheese, it just occurred to me that another type of professional that might be helpful in your case is a certified divorce financial analyst (CDFA). This is right up their alley.