Not SN related- boy scouts

[waverly]

DS is starting boy scouts, and I was in girl scouts with no brothers, so I have no clue.  I don't do great with new situations without knowing what to expect.  I know auntie and miranda are in boy scouts.

I will be doing all the meetings since H is not available, and I have asked the boy scouts about the meetings, so they seem fine.  H can do some stuff on the weekends.  My main issue is the camping trip.  It's the same day as DS's birthday party for one (party is much earlier).  I hope that doesn't mean less people come to the party.  I don't think H is into camping, but he needs to go because my mom will be in town. I have no idea if our tent works.  Or what to expect if I end up going on the trip.  Its right near the parking lot, so that is no issue.  More like me looking like a fool because I have no clue is the issue- like I can't get the tent to work, or I don't bring food and I was supposed to or something.  DS doesn't even have a sleeping bag.  I used to be an expert tent camper, but that was over 15 years ago.  

Can you give me all your boy scout knowledge and also camping with boy scouts knowledge.  Would it be terrible if I opt out of the trip since it's the same day as his party and family is in town?  

There is a feed my starving children at a warehouse.  Any idea what that might be?  Oh interesting they have a website- it looks like the kids pack the food?  Hmmmm

ETA- is it mostly just dads that go on the events?  My co-workers said send H or don't have DS go camping because I can't do everything.  And I will eventually be doing the mom/ daughter things with DD on the weekends. 

[CrazyLucky]

Hey, my DS was in Cub Scouts last year as a tiger and this year as a wolf. DH is the den leader or whatever they're called. I can only speak to his pack.
The cub scouts meet every other week and work on badges (belt loops at this age). They have two camping trips a year, which are family trips and if they go, an adult must go too. If they miss it, it's not a big deal, but they may have to do extra work at home to earn the belt loops to get promoted to the next level. When we went, there were so many people, and everyone is totally willing to help. So if you had trouble with the tent, someone would help you without you even asking. The food was taken care of by the pack. One thing that annoyed me was that it seemed the moms were expected to help with meals, but not the dads. F that. I'm not teaching that to DS, and DH doesn't either. DH got up and helped with the meals. I would go ahead and get DS a sleeping bag though. I tell you, DS absolutely loves scouts. Everything about it. The camping, the uniform, the games.

The feed my starving children is a charity where they send food to other countries, I think. All the scouts have to do service events, and it's more fun if they do it as a group than if they do it separately. So far, I have no complaints at all about the scouts. I know it is more time intense as he gets older, and there will also be gun use and gun safety sections. I'm all for safety, but I'm not sure how I feel about the use. He won't be permitted to have a gun in our house, so I'm not sure he needs to know how to shoot one.

Anyway, if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer!

[auntie]

Boy scouts as in 6th grade or cub scouts as in kindie/first?

The age of the boys and culture of your unit will impact how they camp- I work with 37 Packs and 35 Troops and am always surprised how differently each unit is. There's an old expression- we all scout differently. Can you talk to a veteran mom, committee member, den leader/scoutmaster about the expectations for this campout? Do they have a website or FB page; most do. I relied on a mom whose son is a few years older and almost as quirky as mine. She's still one of my best friends. 


DS's cub scout Pack was breezy, adults did everything - sometimes we even ordered in pizzas or had an older scout sell burgers and dogs to raise funds for an Eagle Project. Sometimes campouts started after dinner. If a kid couldn't make it, it wasn't a huge deal. But once they cross over to boy scouts, the boys are supposed to take on more responsibility using the patrol method, so if a kid skips they may end up short a meal. Plus, he would lose out on opportunities to work on scout ranks by cooking, handling the flag, or nature identification needed to rank up. 

I only ever camper-camped with my parents, so I had to practice setting up my tent. Over time I got the point I could set it up in under 5 minutes in the dark. Sometimes in boy scouts, there are kids who need practice and you can turf the task to them. As cubs, they can sleep with you, as scouts they sleep with other boys. 

In DS's Pack missing a campout for a family event wouldn't be a big deal, in his Troop (as an older kid) scouts generally juggle lots of activities in sports, church, school so opting out just because of a birthday party early in the day would seem odd. 

[waverly]

Thanks for the information. It sounds like it is better if I can convince H to go so DS doesn't have to make up loops...

One of us has to stay home since it said no siblings, so one of us has to stay with DD.

I didn't even think about guns. That wasn't included in girl scouts. I would think that would be at a much older age. I agree with gun safety- I did hunters safety even though I never hunted and had zero interest in hunting (dad wanted me to do it). But yeah I am not sure on the gun use.

[waverly]

auntie, cub scout- 1st grade. I can talk to the veteran moms, but I would rather do it in person than over e-mail and just casually find out the information. I'll look for a FB page.

Camp out starts at 4 pm. They can get there earlier at 2 pm and set up the tent and fish and it might cost more? DH would probably not want to go before 4.

[mamaturtle]

DS is a bear cub scout now.

For the past two years since DS has started as a tiger, our pack had two camping weekends a year and camped with the "brother boy scout" troop. I wanted DH, DS and I to go but it was just bad timing all around because we didn't have a tent and no sleeping bags for DH and I. I only got so far as getting DS a sleeping bag. DH could not get any time off from work to go. Money for gas to go was on us and we did not have the money to go at the time.

There were other alternative requirements we did with DS to still earn his belt loops and he was able to go to the next level.

[waverly]

I just ordered the sleeping bag for DS and bonus it can be part of his birthday present. H doesn't have one though...

[CrazyLucky]

I hope your DH enjoys it. Between DS and DH, I'm not sure who enjoys it more! It's too bad they said no siblings. When we went on the family camping weekends, DD had just as much fun as DS.

[waverly]

@crazylucky, Maybe it is too big a group or had a previous problem with siblings or the camp site is to small? Not sure as the meetings and other events are for the whole family and include siblings.

H's friend will probably go because he likes to camp. So maybe that will convince H to go. I decided to order him a sleeping bag too. Can't hurt to have one in the house anyway.

[auntie]

So weird that the campout isn't open to sibs; most packs are very inclusive and family friendly. DS was the only only in his den, the rest had a younger sister and one also had a younger brother. They were always included.

waverly, safety training for "guns" will vary. Some packs do participate in shooting sports; safety training will be embedded into this as it is around handling knives and fire. Cubs are limites to pellet guns, bb guns, slingshots and archery. For older scouts, there are merit badges in rifle and shotgun. These are not Eagle-required and have safety training as part of the requirements. Where I live, units do their shooting sports at one of the scout reservations during summer camp.

www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss07.aspx

[miranda]

Good luck! I hope your H enjoys it. Having an involved, enthusiastic parent makes all the difference.

Auntie is right about culture, it's all over the place. It sounds like yours is pretty active/involved. Two camping trips a year seems pretty standard though. At our campouts I was lucky to get maybe 7 of the 23 boys in our den. Our Pack is full of boys who are in a ton of other activities, so scouting isn't a big priority. They are incredibly lax on standards and meetings, which is both good and bad. Good because we have a very large, diverse group, bad because for the kids who are serious about scouting, they aren't getting the "full" experience, and the transition to boys scouts will likely be tough.

Our campouts have all been at designated "scout" campgrounds- is this the case for you? If it is, then I wouldn't worry about guns. We've done BB Guns a couple times at campouts and it was all very controlled. They shoot in the "prone" position, i.e. laying down, so they aren't swinging it around or anything. Because we camp at "scout" campgrounds we always have a cabin to base out of. When whether is bad the boys may just sleep inside on provided mats. They even have tents for you to use, but I have heard they are nasty canvas ones that smell like generations of stinky boys.

We should do a weekly scouts check-in! I'm having a helluva a time dealing with our Pack. Last June our Packmaster said our first pack meeting of the year would be August 25. I knew I wouldn't be there on that date, so I contacted him and told him I couldn't be there but would find a replacement. He's such a flake he never even held the damn meeting. I kept having parents email me while I was on vacation complaining "aren't we supposed to be having a pack meeting tomorrow?" and the Packmaster just refused to acknowledge our repeated inquiries. So the parents are mad at me because I don't know what's going on. We have no Pack governance other than the Packmaster. Not a single person other than the den leaders. And 100 kids in the Pack. Ridiculous.

I've given DH an ultimatum- either I solicit another den leader to co-lead with me, or we're out to another well-run Pack. I've got one in mind. DS hasn't made any relationships with his den, mostly since it is so large. We only meet once a month so it's difficult to get meaningful work done. And I have a number of conflicts where I won't be able to be at key events this year, so I'm leaving the whole den in a lurch due to my absence, which just sucks.

[waverly]

I don't think it is a designated scout campground. I was not actually worried about guns yet because they are so young. Good to know that they might possibly have BB guns there, I wasn't thinking of anything due to their age, so thanks for the heads up.

I am game with weekly check ins. It seems like ours is organized, but I have never been to anything so it could all be an illusion. I know my sisters complaints with my two nephews was the disorganization (different group). So we will see how it goes. I need something to force H to help DS learn some skills though since I am the only one with any outdoor skills and those are all 15 years since I have done anything with them.

[miranda]

Sept 1, 2017 10:38:10 GMT -5 waverly said:

I don't think it is a designated scout campground. I was not actually worried about guns yet because they are so young. Good to know that they might possibly have BB guns there, I wasn't thinking of anything due to their age, so thanks for the heads up.

I am game with weekly check ins. It seems like ours is organized, but I have never been to anything so it could all be an illusion. I know my sisters complaints with my two nephews was the disorganization (different group). So we will see how it goes. I need something to force H to help DS learn some skills though since I am the only one with any outdoor skills and those are all 15 years since I have done anything with them.

Cool- I'm going to start a check-in next week. I love scouts. I love planning meetings, challenging kids, and reliving my youth. However, I have zero outdoors skills. I was in an urban 4-H program for 10 years as a kid so while I can bust out a mean skit at the campfire, I couldn't identify a leaf even if I had an app for that.

Forcing H to work with DS was the primary reason I began scouts as well. DH is an Eagle Scout as well as his Dad and my Dad. But DH has no desire to do these things with DS now, which is sad. He says he doesn't want DS to cross-over to boys scouts because it would be "too hard" for DS and too much of a burden on his scout leaders. Which is so incredibly backward-ass it makes me want to scream- but I've had to come to terms with it. It's just the way he feels right now. It's hard for him to see how behind DS is compared to the other kids. It's hard for me too! But I wouldn't avoid something just because it's "hard". DH would powder his bottom and hand him an ice cream cone and an ipad.

There are no urban 4-H groups in my area and I've given serious thought to starting one. 4-H has less of a camping focus, obviously, and camping isn't our family's thing. But there are plenty of social activities, leadership opportunities, summer camps, and of course, county/state fair competitions. Spending a week on my own at the state fair 4-H dorms was a highlight of my childhood! So I can see a lot of similarities between 4-H and scouts.

[waverly]

We did 4H growing up as well. We were in the country, but not on a farm. So I didn't show any animals.

We did attend a few horse farm events, and we did more of the crafts but more country type crafts- wood burning, wood carving. I won first place for painting a shirt (fabric paint). H won for his chocolate cake lol.

I have not seen if there is a 4H here.... It was something we did but not for a long time. Whereas with girl scouts, I was in it from K-7th grade.

[auntie]

Sept 1, 2017 11:17:20 GMT -5 miranda said:

Sept 1, 2017 10:38:10 GMT -5 waverly said:

Forcing H to work with DS was the primary reason I began scouts as well. DH is an Eagle Scout as well as his Dad and my Dad. But DH has no desire to do these things with DS now, which is sad. He says he doesn't want DS to cross-over to boys scouts because it would be "too hard" for DS and too much of a burden on his scout leaders. Which is so incredibly backward-ass it makes me want to scream- but I've had to come to terms with it. It's just the way he feels right now. It's hard for him to see how behind DS is compared to the other kids. It's hard for me too! But I wouldn't avoid something just because it's "hard". DH would powder his bottom and hand him an ice cream cone and an ipad.

This makes me want to swat him across the head with the damned ipad. 

As always, your mileage may vary, but IMHO, there is no single program out there that is better than giving your son the tools for an independent adulthood that the Trail to Eagle. It was the lynch pin of every other intervention ans strategy we put in place. Life skills like fitness, safety and disaster preparedness, personal finances, project management, participating as a citizen in his community, country and with wider world. 

I get that it is uncomfortable to witness your developmentally delayed son in the context of typically and well developing boys, but they are the ones who set the bar and determine what your kid needs to learn to have the best possible adulthood. 

And yeah, it's hard at times. It's hard for other boys in other ways. Growth always is. Self esteem is earned by doing what's hard.

For DS, scouting was a bit like an extension of CBT- a place where he was able to learn to reframe how he defined himself and measured himself against others and develop the resilience that is the difference between being OK in the mainstream world and not.

Mike Rowe explained that better than I ever could at the 2010 National Jamboree. FTR, DS was in the audience; I wouldn't say it was the "highlight" of his adolescence- that was probably his tall ship experience in the Bahamas. But it was the experience that made it possible for him to make that trip to the Bahamas and endure a Norwalk Virus outbreak, with good humor,  on his band's performance tour to Argentina. His first aid skills came in handy when his roommate got very sick. 


www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT53XPRuIoo