The never ending washing battle

[beachbum22]

I'm getting so frustrated.

Some washes are great; diaper inserts, pockets, and covers come out 100% clean, without stains, and smell like nothing. Perfect.
Some washes are hell; inserts stink, and the covers and pocket diapers stink, and sometimes there's still stains, too.

Last week I boiled ALL of my inserts on the stove (microfiber), and saw what looked like residue bubbling out of them. Maybe it was just air bubbles, I don't know.

Then I washed with detergent (persil original.) Then I rinsed and re-washed with just 1/2 c washing soda and 1/2 c borax. My diapers came out heavenly after that wash.

On Monday, my most recent wash, I washed with a little detergent + 1/2 c borax + 1/2 c soda, and my inserts and pockets stunk, so I had to rewash them again. Like before, I did a wash with just detergent, then another wash with just soda and borax.

One difference between this recent wash and the one last week was load size. This recent wash was a bit smaller, because I'm trying to wash more frequently. I know about bulking a load, so I also added all of my fst inserts in there as well. (I found using anything else to bulk makes my pockets pill up horribly, and makes my inserts very linty.)

I want to add that I just started using plain old washing soda and borax, because I was concerned the stink issue was coming from using detergent.

If it helps:
1. Quick rinse, cold, no detergent
2. Heavy cycle with extra rinse, hot, detergent (old routine.)
2. Heavy cycle with extra rinse, hot, detergent, washing soda, and borax (new routine.)
2a. If there's still bubbles, then I run another hot cycle.
3. Quick rinse, cold.

I'm just at a loss. I know mf inserts tend to get stinky easily, but WHY are the linings of my pockets stinking??
I'm guessing it wasn't bulked enough?
No detergent has worked perfectly so far, except Persil, and only in my old washer. Any suggestions? Should I try the famous Tide?
Should I omit the detergent all together?

[beachbum22]

I forgot to add that we have SUPER hard water.

[pipsqueak]

Ideas for things to try:

Switch the microfiber inserts to fst/flats/prefolds or natural fiber inserts.

Change the cold rinse to a warm rinse - if not possible or doesn't help, try a full warm wash cycle for the pre-wash.

How hard is super hard? Maybe try adding water softener to the pre-wash if doing a full wash cycle for pre-wash.

Those are my first thoughts.

[beachbum22]

Thank you! I will try the warm rinse, I hadn't thought of that.

Super hard is almost 300, last time I checked.

I have some FST that I got at Walmart. They're ok-ish. They're not very soft though. Is that common?

[pipsqueak]

I have some fst from bed bath and beyond that I absolutely hated as diapers so I bought real birdseye flats and I loved them. There's a noticeable difference between fst and real flats, imo, that makes real flats worth buying. If you're just stuffing pockets with them, it really doesn't make much difference since the softness/hardness is covered by the pocket lining.

Diaper Junction has their Diaper Rite flats on sale right now. They're discontinuing the cotton but will be keeping the bamboo flats. I haven't tried their bamboo flats.

My water is only in the 170-180ppm range and I don't notice a difference between the loads washed with and the loads washed without water softener. Based on that, I doubt it would harm things to play around with adding water softener at different points in your wash routine - pre-wash and/or main wash to see which combination gives you the best results.

[beachbum22]

I might consider flats then. I prefer to use them outside of the pocket, instead of stuffing. Me = lazy. I don't like how rough the walmart fst feel, and I can't imaginge they're comfortable to wear in a diaper.

I just re-read my last post/comment, and I'm sorry if the water comment sounded snarky!! I didn't mean it to be snarky at all. I meant that the last time I checked my water, it was super hard around 300. I will look into adding softeners and see if that helps.

[pipsqueak]

Oct 8, 2017 15:24:40 GMT -5 beachbum22 said:

I might consider flats then. I prefer to use them outside of the pocket, instead of stuffing. Me = lazy. I don't like how rough the walmart fst feel, and I can't imaginge they're comfortable to wear in a diaper.

I just re-read my last post/comment, and I'm sorry if the water comment sounded snarky!! I didn't mean it to be snarky at all. I meant that the last time I checked my water, it was super hard around 300. I will look into adding softeners and see if that helps.

I didn't consider the water comment being snarky. I just have no experience with washing diapers in water harder than my current water so my ideas of things to try with your water hardness are limited.

[pipsqueak]

I almost forgot, flannel receiving blankets work really well as "flats" too. T-shirts too.

Just in case you want to try either of those.

[freezorburn]

Sorry I haven't been around, I spent the weekend in bed trying to cough up my lungs.

Are you using a top loader or front loader? You might not need to be bulking up your load.

When I had hard water in the 300ppm range, I did a warm initial rinse with Calgon, the hot heavy duty wash with Calgon and detergent, extra warm rinse.

Also, MF tends to be a bit harder to wash in hard water for some reason, I agree that trying flats might be a good idea.

[pipsqueak]

freezorburn, hope you're feeling better and back to "normal" quickly.

[beachbum22]

It's a top loader. A cheap one.

I figured bulking would help things agitate better, because this washer uses "auto-sensing" for water levels, and it fills the wash drum all the way to the top with water. There's no way to use less water.

It does have an a classic agitator in the middle.

I was going to order more FST, but one thing I don't like is having to unfold them after they've been used. That's a small thing to complain about, but it's still gross. I think I might order some flats instead, and see how that goes.

I actually did try using old, mens size t-shirts before. I cut them, and sewed them to look and act like flats, but they weren't thick enough to be very absorbent, so now I use them as rags. I should've used more layers.

[beachbum22]

I'm actually doing a wash right now. I just started with the warm rinse. I don't have any water softeners right now, though. Hopefully things go all right.

[pipsqueak]

The washer you describe sounds similar to my new washer. I call it a hybrid because it claims to be HE but it uses a lot of water like a non-HE.

I wash 2-3 days worth of diapers, wipes, family cloth, and underwear (and sometimes socks and an occasional hand towel) I don't add anything else as that fills my drum to at least half full and I do the full pre-wash and wash cycle with those items.

I rarely unfold my flats before dropping in the diaper pail. They will usually unfold with agitation. If I notice any still folded after the pre-wash is done, I will unfold them then.

[beachbum22]

Well, it was total ridiculousness. I did many washes and rinses, and after all that some inserts and a couple pockets still stunk.



I boiled the offending inserts, and threw them back into the washer. I saw lots of suds in the washer in the middle of the cycle. Kinda weird.

[freezorburn]

I have pneumonia. Sorry, I’m pretty useless right now.

Hope the boiling helped!

[pipsqueak]

Oct 10, 2017 23:50:41 GMT -5 freezorburn said:

I have pneumonia. Sorry, I’m pretty useless right now.

Hope the boiling helped!

Hope you start feeling better soon.

[pipsqueak]

Read back through the original post. What detergents have you tried previously and which ones in current washer?

[beachbum22]

Oct 10, 2017 23:50:41 GMT -5 freezorburn said:

I have pneumonia. Sorry, I’m pretty useless right now.

Hope the boiling helped!

Aww, eff pneumonia. That bastard. I hope you feel better soon!!

For detergents I've tried All Free & Clear, Purex, Persil Original, and now just washing soda and borax.

Persil used to work well, until we moved and started using this new washer. In this new washer I've only tried Persil (alone), Persil with the wash soda/borax combo, and then wash soda/borax alone. Nothing seems to be working perfectly now.

The best results I've had were when I boiled all of my inserts (in just plain water, nothing else), then washed with washing soda and borax. Obviously boiling helped, but I really don't want to have to boil my inserts every time 

I think at this point I'm just going to phase out my MF inserts, and switch to FST or flats, and use my pockets like covers. The lining of the pocket diapers sometimes stink, too, and I can't boil those. No use stuffing them if I can't get them 100% clean every time.

I'm going to look into water softeners, too. I thought the wash soda was supposed to help with hard water?



Save

[pipsqueak]

Yeah, both borax and washing soda are water softeners. Have you tried Calgon?

Side benefit of using flats is that if you absolutely can't get your machine to clean them, you can handwash them then throw into the machine for a final rinse and spin - and it's less time consuming and less work than constantly boiling them. Hopefully, you can get the machine to clean them for you.

Just thinking - I wonder if an RLR or Mighty Bubbles "treatment" would help the synthetic fiber items.

[beachbum22]

I haven't tried Calgon, or RLR, or anything like that. Would I need to do the treatment every time I wash, or just once in a while? I have stink issues every time I do a wash.

[DGM]

Oct 8, 2017 21:43:05 GMT -5 pipsqueak said:

I almost forgot, flannel receiving blankets work really well as "flats" too. T-shirts too.

Just in case you want to try either of those.

I used flannel receiving blankets until I bought a bunch of flats from pipsqueak LOL. FRB are super bulky but do absorb a lot. I never had trouble getting either clean unlike my mf inserts which seemed to just like holding onto stink.

ETA clarity.

[DGM]

Did I miss a post on how often you are washing? I was able to wash every third day for my toddler's daytime flats and pockets, but I know some people had to wash every other day.

[freezorburn]

Calgon seems to work better than other water softeners. My mind is groggy right now, but there are different kinds of water softeners, precipitating and non-precipitating. One kind will just leave more stuff on your diapers. Calgon is the kind that will bind stuff up and it will rinse away better.

That said, I know my sister uses Borax with Tide in moderately hard water (around 150-200ppm) and seems to be happy with that combo. Have heard Borax can be somewhat abrasive, but she hasn't reported any issues to me. I guess this means fibers might wear out more quickly than otherwise, but meh.

If you add a softener, then yes you would use it every time as part of your regular routine. If you can get your softener and detergent dosages right you might never need to do an occasional treatment with RLR or Mighty Bubbles or the like.

[beachbum22]

No you didn't miss a post. I somehow neglected to share how often I wash! Sorry! I've been trying to wash more frequently, about every other day, or 2 days at the most. Washing more often doesn't seem to be helping in this case.

Calgon sounds like the way to go. If I could save/salvage my inserts, that would awesome.

[beachbum22]

freezorburn, you're right about precipitating. I found this in my search...

There are two types of water conditioners:

Non-Precipitating: the best for hard water laundering. Most commonly used, and are recommended for automatic washers (Source: NCSU). Most common are RLR and Calgon, plus White Rain, Blue Raindrops, and others

Precipitating: seldom used with cloth diapers unless you are washing by hand or with a wringer washer. Most common are Borax and Washing Soda,plus Raindrops, Blue Dew, Climalene, Melo, White King and Borateem



So it looks like using washing soda and borax alone may not help me. I tried to buy Calgon today, but I didn't realize they didn't sell it at my Target. I just assumed they'd have it.

I'm going to order on Amazon. My question is, do I get powder or liquid? Does it make much difference?

[freezorburn]

For some reason, people sometimes have a hard time finding Calgon. Strange. Sometimes you can find it at hardware stores, maybe keep an eye out the next time you are convenient to one.

My take on Calgon is, get whichever one is most convenient/available/economical.

I had tablets because that was what was available when I had hard water.

I know a lot of people have posted in the FB group that they have only been able to find liquid. If that were the case, I would use that -- I don't se much point going out of the way to get it in a different form.

I figure if you have a choice, the conventional wisdom always says that if you are paying for shipping, depending on how it's packaged, you might be getting better value with the powder because with the liquid you are also paying for water weight. But I'm not sure how much that matters in this day and age. Maybe you can figure out how many doses are in each package, and figure out which one is cheaper overall?

[pipsqueak]

On the water softener bit. I found out a while back that while detergent manufacturers were banned from adding phosphates in laundry products (not everyone needs them and too many consumers using them is what caused the eco issues) individual consumers can still order Sodium Tri Poly Phosphate - STPP (not to be confused with Sodium Tri-Phosphate - STP) from a company that specializes in chemicals/dyes. (I don't remember the company name.) That's one option if you want to go there.

However, Charlie's Booster is another option to consider for a water softer if Calgon is elusive or too expensive online.

[beachbum22]

Just an update.

First of all, thank you to everyone that helped me. I was so close to giving up.

I decided to try the all mighty and famous Tide Powder before I invested in a water softener. I was cringing at the thought of the cost of having to always buy the softener. I did a lot of research (NOT on Fluff Love), and people were saying Tide was great in hard water.

I've done two washes now, and Tide seems to be working really well so far. I also tried Gain Powder, but that was an epic fail.

I tried doing the warm water pre-wash, like suggested previously, but my washing machine doesn't allow that. All rinse cycles are COLD WATER ONLY. If you want to wash on warm, you have to run a regular cycle. And even then, the water is hardly warm.

After I let the washer fill with warmish water, I tried to turn the knob back to "Rinse", to trick the machine, but it went through the entire regular cycle instead. SMH. Have I mentioned that I HATE THIS MACHINE?!

I had a few MF inserts that never seemed to smell clean. I would add them to every wash, hoping to get them clean, but they still stunk. I knew which ones they were because I marked them with a small Sharpie dot. This routine has cleared up the stink on those stubborn inserts. So, I'm pretty happy about that.

Also, A hasn't had any rash or reaction to the detergent, so I'm happy about that, too.


My new wash routine is this:
1. Pre-wash: Heavy cycle on hot (I have no choice), I add a tiny amount of Tide Powder, and 1/4 cup of Borax. To counteract the hard water.
2. Main wash: Heavy cycle on hot, line 2 of Tide. Line 3 if it's a large load.
3. Extra rinse: This last step varies. If there's no suds in the last rinse of the main wash, and the water looks clear, then I won't do an extra rinse. If there's suds, or if the last rinse water looks gross/murky, or if the items smell heavily of detergent, then I will run an extra rinse.

I think doing the extra rinse every single time was making more problems, because of the hard water.

[pipsqueak]

I hate when the machines are too "smart" so they can't be "tricked".

Fingers crossed that you found a wash routine that lets you enjoy cloth diapers and a rash free LO.

[beachbum22]

The funny thing is, I don't think it qualifies as a smart machine. Haha! I think it's supposed to be a "simple" machine, to take the guess work out of doing laundry for the average person.

But if you have special requirements, you're screwed. Might as well just hand wash.