Can my school do this?

[origami]

I am in the beginning stage of getting an IEP for my kids. They were in our district’s Early On & preschool SN services programs and then we moved overseas for a few years. Now we’re back and my kids are school age. So while this is their first IEP, they’re in the system.

I met with our district’s services coordinator who explained the IEP process. In that meeting I requested an evaluation for speech & OT. At first she said it was fine but then she emailed later to say she misspoke. Apparently in my district a child cannot even be evaluated for OT services until he qualifies for some other service. Doesn’t have to be related to OT. If my kids qualify for speech they can get tested for OT. If they don’t qualify for speech then I’m SOL, regardless of their need for OT.

This was her exact quote, “In order to refer a student for an OT evaluation, that student must already be eligible for special education services.”

I’m WTFing this, not just for my kids but the policy in general. One of my kids will for sure qualify for speech, so he’ll be fine. The other though is borderline in speech, but probably not borderline for OT.

Second question, I was also told that the services available at the school varies widely throughout the district because each social worker at the school decides what services she’ll offer. At our school the SW has decided there won’t be social groups or real OT. She only does consultations with the parents and teachers. I can understand how that meets the needs of kids with very mild delays, but not so much anyone else.

Does this sound normal to you? I don’t want to overreact. But if it’s not what do you advise I do? I don’t think I can do much until the evals take place but I want to get my ducks in a row because I see how this will likely play out.

[redmonkeystomper]

Yes, in my school district OT and PT are considered related services and are not provided unless the student has another disability. I have never agreed with that and don't really understand the policy.
The second part does not sound right. If a child needs a service the district must provide it. So if he needed social groups but your school doesn't have then they would have to provide transportation to a school that does.

[redmonkeystomper]

Also found this explanation online
"In order for students to receive occupational/physical therapy services under IDEA Part B, federal law requires that the students be eligible for special education and that the related service be necessary to assist the students with disabilities to benefit from special education. Occupational/physical therapy serves in a supportive role, helping students participate in and benefit from special education"

[origami]

Oct 5, 2017 20:03:40 GMT -5 redmonkeystomper said:

Also found this explanation online
"In order for students to receive occupational/physical therapy services under IDEA Part B, federal law requires that the students be eligible for special education and that the related service be necessary to assist the students with disabilities to benefit from special education. Occupational/physical therapy serves in a supportive role, helping students participate in and benefit from special education"

Thank you for finding that. It’s disappointing but at least now I know why my district is doing it that way.

[auntie]

That seems seriously fishy. Is this a decent school district?

I would suggest you obtain and read "From Emotions to Advocacy" which is the single best intro to Special Education for a newbie. What sort of school/services did your children have at their previous school? How old/what grade are they? Under what IEP classification will they fall? Do they have an actual dx?

redmonkeystomper, your district is interpreting that in a way I have not seen before. I know of several students who receive OT services under IDEA part B as their sole sped service. One was a boy with severe hypotonia who needed OT to help with handwriting and manipulating materials in art. He had OT 1-2x weekly through elementary with an assisstive technology through secondary. He was classified under OHI.

I know a girl with Ehler Danlos who also gets OT consults, mostly for assisstive tech at this point as she has trouble note taking and the production of written work. Like some with EDS, her issues became worse as she hit puberty. She is served under Section 504.

That said, origami, in some districts there is a tendency to not approve OT outside of kids in self contained classrooms much past 4th grade or so because it isn't generally effective or the returns are worth the time out of the classroom.

Services can vary between schools within a district. Sometimes schools center their professionals in one or two buildings that house special education special day classes since the bulk of their day will be spent with those students. In my district, there's one tiny elementary that only gets the SLP, OT, PT and school psych for a 1/2 day once a week. If you have a child with an IEP that stipulates more sessions, they're enrolled at a different school.

I'm not a huge fan of counselors or MSWs running social skills groups, the best social skills stuff is written by SLPs for SLPs to implement. DS did Michelle Garcia Winner's Social Thinking under his speech minutes with an SLP.

Seems odd that the SW is deciding what goes on in the building. Is she the head of the CSE for the building? Will she be the IEP custodian?

When I bridged DS to the local elementary in 4th, I worked with his psych on a "wish list" of services and placement. This was based on services provided by a well respected lab school from which he was transferring. He was also the district's ASD consultant, so when I took the formal request to the district director of special services, she accepted it and set it up with his school. They were out of compliance with IDEA's timeline for an evaluation, so they needed to be more collaborative than they otherwise might have been.

The language of IDEA calls for evaluations in all areas of suspected disability. If you child is globally delayed, it would make sense to evaluation in the domains or speech, fine and gross motor. If you don't prevail, you can always reopen the IEP with a "new concern" should fine motor delays start to impact his ability to access the curriculum.

Good luck.

[origami]

Thanks auntie

I will get that book ASAP.

In their last school my kids got speech and I paid for private OT because the school didn’t provide that. This was a private school overseas though. Before that in the US my kids got speech only. I didn’t even know my kids needed OT until we moved abroad and their teacher told me to get an eval. My kids are in first grade (just turned 7). No dx for either. I don’t know anything about IEP classifications so I’m not sure on that.

Re: the district. It’s a good district, as far as I know, for regular academics. I don’t know what its reputation is for SN services. I’ve lived in 2 districts in this county for past services and thought both of them were pitiful (for SN stuff) so it’s possible my area sucks. But it’s possible my experience isn’t the norm. I just don’t know. I don’t know anyone getting services here. I’ve always had to pay for private SLPs on top of the district’s service because what they provided (group therapy only for 20min/week) was ridiculous.

I don’t know if the MSW will be the custodian of the IEP. I suspect not but it wasn’t covered in our meeting. Neither was the MSW’s role in all this. I only found out she decided not to do social groups because the services coordinator mentioned it as an off-hand comment. :S

[auntie]

Oct 6, 2017 5:57:26 GMT -5 origami said:

I will get that book ASAP.

The book will help a lot. 

In their last school my kids got speech and I paid for private OT because the school didn’t provide that. This was a private school overseas though. Before that in the US my kids got speech only. I didn’t even know my kids needed OT until we moved abroad and their teacher told me to get an eval. My kids are in first grade (just turned 7). No dx for either. I don’t know anything about IEP classifications so I’m not sure on that.

Under IDEA, students are "classified" under one or more very specific "disabilities". These vary a bit state to state. While need drives services, sometimes it can be very hard to get specific services under some classifications.  There is generally a "Speech and Language Impaired". Kids classified under S&L wouldn't necessarily get OT, but a kid classified under a broader "Developmental Delay" (available in some state until age 8) or OHI or ASD might. 

Are their current teachers concerned about OT/fine motor skills/sensory processing? 

Re: the district. It’s a good district, as far as I know, for regular academics. I don’t know what its reputation is for SN services. I’ve lived in 2 districts in this county for past services and thought both of them were pitiful (for SN stuff) so it’s possible my area sucks. But it’s possible my experience isn’t the norm. I just don’t know. I don’t know anyone getting services here. I’ve always had to pay for private SLPs on top of the district’s service because what they provided (group therapy only for 20min/week) was ridiculous.

Group instruction is generally appropriate for social skills. 

It can be hard to know if a district is doing a good job with special education services. One thing to compare is the % of kids with an IEP in the district to national and state averages. Also look at AYP for IEP students on high stakes testing. Even then, sometimes district serve some kids with IEPs well and others not as appropriately. 

I don’t know if the MSW will be the custodian of the IEP. I suspect not but it wasn’t covered in our meeting. Neither was the MSW’s role in all this. I only found out she decided not to do social groups because the services coordinator mentioned it as an off-hand comment. :S

[origami]

Oct 6, 2017 8:13:28 GMT -5 auntie said:

Oct 6, 2017 5:57:26 GMT -5 origami said:

I will get that book ASAP.

The book will help a lot. 

In their last school my kids got speech and I paid for private OT because the school didn’t provide that. This was a private school overseas though. Before that in the US my kids got speech only. I didn’t even know my kids needed OT until we moved abroad and their teacher told me to get an eval. My kids are in first grade (just turned 7). No dx for either. I don’t know anything about IEP classifications so I’m not sure on that.

Under IDEA, students are "classified" under one or more very specific "disabilities". These vary a bit state to state. While need drives services, sometimes it can be very hard to get specific services under some classifications.  There is generally a "Speech and Language Impaired". Kids classified under S&L wouldn't necessarily get OT, but a kid classified under a broader "Developmental Delay" (available in some state until age 8) or OHI or ASD might. 
Thank you for explaining. I'll ask at the next meeting. 

Are their current teachers concerned about OT/fine motor skills/sensory processing?
Not that I'm aware of, but they've only been in school here one month and we haven't had a PT conference yet. I will ask. The resource room teacher and I discussed possible academic concerns about 1 of my kids with regard to his writing/spelling. But that was more about him being willing to write and guess at how words are spelled. Recognizing blend sounds and translating that to actual letters. That type of thing. Currently he's manipulating his teacher into doing his writing for him and he verbally dictates what to write. He acts like he just can't do it at all b/c he says he's "bad at spelling," which is nonsense. At home I see him have a poor grip strength and the way he writes his letters is wrong (bottom up) but the teachers haven't made any comment on that. They have only mentioned the academic work, which we now have a plan for.

Re: the district. It’s a good district, as far as I know, for regular academics. I don’t know what its reputation is for SN services. I’ve lived in 2 districts in this county for past services and thought both of them were pitiful (for SN stuff) so it’s possible my area sucks. But it’s possible my experience isn’t the norm. I just don’t know. I don’t know anyone getting services here. I’ve always had to pay for private SLPs on top of the district’s service because what they provided (group therapy only for 20min/week) was ridiculous.

Group instruction is generally appropriate for social skills. 
Yes that's what I want for the social skills part. But I was just referring to speech therapy. They refused to give my kids individual speech therapy. My kids have thus far never been in a social skills group. 

It can be hard to know if a district is doing a good job with special education services. One thing to compare is the % of kids with an IEP in the district to national and state averages. Also look at AYP for IEP students on high stakes testing. Even then, sometimes district serve some kids with IEPs well and others not as appropriately. 
Thanks. I'll try to find that info.

I don’t know if the MSW will be the custodian of the IEP. I suspect not but it wasn’t covered in our meeting. Neither was the MSW’s role in all this. I only found out she decided not to do social groups because the services coordinator mentioned it as an off-hand comment. :S

[waverly]

I did not formally request OT. I mentioned it to his classroom teacher, who claims she gave a sample of his writing to the OT and then OT send home a work sheet of things to do at home, so I took that as not qualify. I didn't push it though because his orthopedic and ENT did not seem to think that messy writing for a 7 year old boy was that unusual, and his scissor and drawing skills had improved (and writing a little).

We are pursuing PT outside the school district. I don't even know if they have a PT there, but I may be wrong, but am assuming it is for more severe cases. For example, DS can function in the classroom and in gym, so they may not see PT as needed for educational reasons since he can do the activities.

But private PT is focusing on non educational goals like muscle strength, flexibility, and reflexes. This isn't to discourage you from pushing because it sounds like your kids may need OT, just sharing my experience.

I thought you had wrote that the teachers were concerned about the writing. But then reading it again, I see that you say he has manipulated the teachers into writing for him. I am not aware of his level of ability- but I am kind of side eyeing that they are doing it for him instead of spending time with him teaching him to do it. How will he learn if they just do it for him? Unless that was part of the IEP, which since you haven't had the IEP yet then, it doesn't sound like it. Our district, and most do least restrictive environment which probably is more classroom placement, but I don't see writing for a kid as least restrictive. Especially if you say he can write and just has issues with his grip strength.

Our speech usually does 2 kids at a time.

[auntie]

redmonkeystomper , said:

Not that I'm aware of, but they've only been in school here one month and we haven't had a PT conference yet. I will ask. The resource room teacher and I discussed possible academic concerns about 1 of my kids with regard to his writing/spelling. But that was more about him being willing to write and guess at how words are spelled. Recognizing blend sounds and translating that to actual letters. That type of thing. Currently he's manipulating his teacher into doing his writing for him and he verbally dictates what to write. He acts like he just can't do it at all b/c he says he's "bad at spelling," which is nonsense. At home I see him have a poor grip strength and the way he writes his letters is wrong (bottom up) but the teachers haven't made any comment on that. They have only mentioned the academic work, which we now have a plan for.



Read more: pandce.proboards.com/post/new/586064#ixzz4ukPlbB2b

Glad you have a plan for academics. Wait, he's in resource room? In most places, a "resource room" is considered a special education placement and not something that can happen outside of an IEP (violation of "least restrictive setting") unless this is a brief RTI type intervention in which case you would be notified but not have to have an IEP meeting. 

How's his reading? Did he go to an English language school last year? Did they do academics in kindie? What's his reading program look like this year- is it phonics-based or more of a whole word or whole language approach?

The bottom up formation of letters in English is sometimes seen in kids with LD issues. It can indicate a situation where the left to right/top to bottom directionality of English isn't established for the child which can make learning to read (decoding/sounding out words) harder. (DS had a classmate in 3rd who struggled to read English but was fine with Hebrew)

I would have a concern, too, about his self reporting difficulty with English blends and diagraphs. Before we recognized his dyslexia, his phonemic awareness was not reliable- especially around short vowels, blends and diagraphs. He could memorize his spelling words thanks to his ridiculous Aspergian rote memory skills, but spelling on the fly as part of an assignment? Not happening and he knew it. It was so weird to see DS ace a spelling word and misspell it in a sentence the very same day. We were surprised by this because DS's speech was always very advanced- sentences by 16 months, 8th grade vocab in spring of 1st grade, no articulation errors to give a hint that he wasn't hearing sounds accurately. Spelling remained emergent for a long time. 

DS attended a spendy lab school that spent almost an hour daily on directionality, listening and handwriting drills for 2 1/2 years. Within a few months in public school he was back to his bottom up letter formation- except he can read and writing really quickly now. So I try not to let my eye twitch when I see it.

If you are just concerned about handwriting aspects, "Handwriting Without Tears" is a very user-friendly program you could do with him at home. He may do better with a cushy or chunky grip. You could also ask his pedi if he thinks your DS has some hypotonia in his hand that is impacting his grip. A letter from an MD stating this often gets the LEA's attention and an OT assessment, btw. 

Waverly said:

I thought you had wrote that the teachers were concerned about the writing. But then reading it again, I see that you say he has manipulated the teachers into writing for him. I am not aware of his level of ability- but I am kind of side eyeing that they are doing it for him instead of spending time with him teaching him to do it. How will he learn if they just do it for him? Unless that was part of the IEP, which since you haven't had the IEP yet then, it doesn't sound like it. Our district, and most do least restrictive environment which probably is more classroom placement, but I don't see writing for a kid as least restrictive. Especially if you say he can write and just has issues with his grip strength.



Read more: pandce.proboards.com/post/new/586064#ixzz4ukaFEnfJ

It's hard to say whether it is appropriate or not for the teacher to act as scribe. If the point of the lesson is to have the student organize his thoughts into a story or answer questions about something he just read, having a scribe could be an appropriate accommodation that allows him to work at the level of his intellect rather than be handicapped by his poor ability to write. A scribe can be provided under either an IEP or a section 504; it is one accommodation that can follow a student to higher education where IDEA no longer exists. Of course, if it's a handwriting class, that's entirely different. 

In most situations, a mainstream classroom with a scribe or other paraprofessional would be less restrictive than a resource or special education classroom.  

[waverly]

auntie , it just sounded like they were doing this without doing an IEP first or talking to the parent. Usually then it would be determined what is appropriate or not. Unless it was just a temporary thing until the IEP is done. But I am just guessing at the situation from the OP. 

[origami]

Oct 6, 2017 12:37:50 GMT -5 auntie said:

Glad you have a plan for academics. Wait, he's in resource room? In most places, a "resource room" is considered a special education placement and not something that can happen outside of an IEP (violation of "least restrictive setting") unless this is a brief RTI type intervention in which case you would be notified but not have to have an IEP meeting. 

How's his reading? Did he go to an English language school last year? Did they do academics in kindie? What's his reading program look like this year- is it phonics-based or more of a whole word or whole language approach?

Yup they're in a resource room. Well, the one is at least. I forgot to ask about the other kid. :S The school he's at lets kids go there before their IEP is in place, if the parent requests it, which I did. I met with the resource room teacher before the school year started to show her the services my kids got at their previous school. They agreed to let mine go from the beginning instead of waiting for the district b/c at the rate they go it will be Thanksgiving before his IEP is done. He currently only goes there for reading help. I am not sure if it's a group thing with other kids in the class who need reading help (there are several who need it), or if he goes alone. Typing all this has made it clear to me that I need to meet with the teachers again and figure out what actually happens on a day to day basis because there is so much I just don't have a clue about.

His reading is just ok. He's probably around the low end of normal. He knows a decent amount of sight words (but could be better) and is decent at recognizing/naming common blend sounds (but also could be better). If we sound out phonetic words slowly he will spell them correctly but if we say them fast he mis-hears them. Like he thought "truck" was spelled with a ch- and "drag" was spelled with a J b/c that's almost how we pronounce it. We have to over-enunciate words like that and then he'll get it. When reading he prefers to sound out words over memorizing them, so he reads slowly and then messes up some non-phonetic sight words trying to sound them out (e.g. "was" pronounced like "w-ass"). He does not yet know rules like when the vowels change from short to long. I believe his class learns phonics and sight words, so I'm not sure if that makes it a hybrid approach or if that's how phonics works since so many of our words are spelled stupidly. 

His old school was an english-language school but almost all the kids in it were ESL. It's interesting to me what you said about directional language b/c we were in Korea where the characters make a square and are often printed vertically. He used to write his name like that when he was little (4 letters in a square shape). But anyway his old school was very play based, with lots of collaborative, creative project type stuff. Not at all like his current school, which is very academic focused. 

I was hoping to get an OT to do HWOT with him. Basically b/c I just don't have the energy to work with him after a fully day of school/work, but if that is too expensive or not possible, I'll suck it up and do it. 

Great idea about getting our Pedi to write a letter for OT. He'll totally do it. 

Re: the scribe. I didn't request that. If it's determined that he needs it then I'm glad to know it's a good option, but at this point I think he's being stubborn and the teacher doesn't know him well enough to know that he can do it. He's tried this with any number of things over the years. It's his MO to refuse to try something until he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that he won't fail at it. The school agreed to help make him more comfortable with this and had some ideas that I hope will work. 

Thanks again for all of your valuable input, ladies!

[di0607]

My have EDS and they are serviced under a 504 plan. We specifically chose this approach because pt/ot can be stand alone services.