Scale of 1 to 10

[sudokufan]

How upset would you be if your 4 year old was injured while using a hammer to put golf tees in a pumpkin? No eye protection, and the teachers excuse is that she told him not to use the hammer when she had to step away. Tiny scab at the inner corner of his eye but his vision is fine. I'm at an 8 thinking what might have happened if the claw end had hit him instead.

[k3am]

So let's clarify... your four-year-old was left unsupervised with a hammer? A real hammer?

[sunbutter]

8. There should be no walking away from a four year old and a hammer in that situation.

[2chatter]

What were the ratios for this project?

[sudokufan]

Yes, a real hammer, albeit a smaller one. The kind you use for finishing nails. 2 teachers for 16 kids.

[greenmonkey1]

I would probably be past an eight. That is really not safe. I let my 5 year old use a hammer, but only with very close supervision. A 4 year old could seriously hurt themselves or a peer. I cannot imagine 2 teachers feeling comfortable with 16 4 year olds having hammers. That would make me sweat.

[waverly]

8 or 9.

[phdmomma]

9.5, because this sounds like a stupid project to start with. Golf tees in pumpkins? If my kid gets hurt doing something normal, like climbing I would be way less mad. But stupid project, very displeased.

[shakinros]

6 because he wasn't really injured. (Just my take, but my 5yo can get small injuries coloring with toddler crayons, so tiny scab near eye is a normal occurrence in my book. YMMV.) This is one of those situations where I could see myself getting super upset about what could happen, but actually, very little did happen.

Def expect this project to never ever be repeated unless they have at least double the adult supervision.

[akafred]

Oct 16, 2017 20:23:31 GMT -5 phdmomma said:

9.5, because this sounds like a stupid project to start with. Golf tees in pumpkins? If my kid gets hurt doing something normal, like climbing I would be way less mad. But stupid project, very displeased.

Sounds like a fun project to me. Not one I would recommend for a kid who doesn't have eye protection or proper supervision, of course, but the concept wouldn't raise my eyebrows.

Personally I would be at a 7 mostly because he wasn't actually hurt badly. But a 10 is like the worst thing a daycare can do, like hiring child predators because they didn't do a background check or leaving toddlers in hot vehicles or letting a kid walk out the front door and not noticing until the kid is walking down the street or something. 7 is pretty high for me.

[k3am]

I don’t know where I’m at in a numerical ranking. I’m definitely discussing the lack of judgment with the office staff and not just the teacher, probably not filing a complaint with the licensing board.

[sdlaura]

When dropped my 3.5-year-old off at school today they were doing this same thing - golf tees in pumpkins. I didn't see whether there was a hammer involved. I'd be pretty angry but also probably wouldn't go to the licensing board. I would have a discussion with teacher and director. I'm glad no one was seriously injured.

[supertrooper1]

This is a WTF for me. I wouldn't trust my 4 year old with a hammer. Not just to injure himself, but he would start hammering everything around him and damage stuff.

[sandandsea]

Why wouldn't they use rubber mallets or toy hammers? It seems so obvious to not have 4yos use real hammers!! Probably a 6.5 for me as ds could use a hammer properly at 4 but not enough supervision.

[campermom]

Yeah that was a bad choice. I'd also be at discussion with director level.

[sudokufan]

Oct 17, 2017 0:05:52 GMT -5 sandandsea said:

Why wouldn't they use rubber mallets or toy hammers? It seems so obvious to not have 4yos use real hammers!! Probably a 6.5 for me as ds could use a hammer properly at 4 but not enough supervision.

Exactly! They didn't have enough rubber mallets and cheaper out with dollar store hammers, when toy ones would probably have been fine

[sudokufan]

Oct 17, 2017 4:14:07 GMT -5 campermom said:

Yeah that was a bad choice. I'd also be at discussion with director level.

I spoke with the owner. No acknowledgement that it was a bad idea or apologies, just excuses and promises that they won't use real hammers again.

[sunbutter]

Oct 17, 2017 5:33:07 GMT -5 sudokufan said:

Oct 17, 2017 4:14:07 GMT -5 campermom said:

Yeah that was a bad choice. I'd also be at discussion with director level.

I spoke with the owner. No acknowledgement that it was a bad idea or apologies, just excuses and promises that they won't use real hammers again.

That is what drives me crazy in these situations. Rarely do the responses start with an apology. If they did, the entire tone of the conversation would be different.

[sweetptater]

Oct 17, 2017 5:33:07 GMT -5 sudokufan said:

Oct 17, 2017 4:14:07 GMT -5 campermom said:

Yeah that was a bad choice. I'd also be at discussion with director level.

I spoke with the owner. No acknowledgement that it was a bad idea or apologies, just excuses and promises that they won't use real hammers again.

What about promises that the teacher wouldn't step away from children when they were using potentially dangerous items? Even a rubber mallet in the hands of a 4 year old could be dangerous. 

ETA: I'm saying that I'd be pissed that the owner didn't apologize or acknowledge the issue that the teacher needs to be more responsible. I'm not sure if that came across in my post.

[kimberlybb]

I would be at a 8 for the poor judgment call. I would never consider doing a project like that at home and I'd be at a 1:2 ratio. How old are these teachers?

[Covergirl82]

I'm really surprised there was no apology involved. (They have heard of social media, right?) And the lack of good judgment is kind of astonishing. I'm glad to hear that no kids were injured.

[mustardseed2007]

The part that would make me the most mad was that she blamed the 4 year old.

"I'm sorry, that was my mistake. I should have taken the hammer with me when I stepped away. That won't happen again." Bonus if they follow up with: "Now that we've seen what can happen, we're also changing the tool we are using to this rubber mallet." and then I'm at a much lower number than...."This happened to your 4yo, I told him not to touch the hammer and he didn't listen."

[2chatter]

I'd go back to them with a counter. Seriously. At DS' Montessori for projects with tools or super mess, one teacher pulled 1-3 kids to drop the supervision ratio. All the kids did the projects throughout the day, just not at the same time.

Hammer isn't the issue. It's about judgment, supervision and scalability.

[k3am]

Oct 17, 2017 11:23:26 GMT -5 2chatter said:

I'd go back to them with a counter. Seriously. At DS' Montessori for projects with tools or super mess, one teacher pulled 1-3 kids to drop the supervision ratio. All the kids did the projects throughout the day, just not at the same time.

Hammer isn't the issue. It's about judgment, supervision and scalability.

This entirely. DD's class last year (so late 3's, early 4's) did a project last year involving a hammer (birdhouse). There were two hammers for the class and the teacher worked on it in groups of 3-4 at a time.

If your kid never gets exposure to tools, they never learn to use them. I'm just shocked that anyone who spends a significant amount of time with 4-year-olds (like... oh, say a teacher?) wouldn't be 100% up to speed with the fact that 4 years don't always listen perfectly to instructions (especially instructions revolving around a tool that kids generally don't get access to) and that leaving kids unsupervised with a hammer wasn't a great idea.

[sudokufan]

Honestly, I think DS's exposure level to tools was part of the problem; he has a kid's tool set, so he knows how to use the claw part to remove his plastic nails, and we've let him use H's tools to help us with tasks, but with 1 or even 2 on 1 supervision AND safety glasses. So, he knew how to get the golf tees out of the pumpkin and tried to once the teacher's back was turned. Sigh.

The asst. director AND owner tried to minimize things and placate me, but the director called while we were on the way back from the doctor (a just in case visit, things were fine with his eye) and she was appropriately appalled, had spoke to both teachers about appropriate supervision for this kind of activity, having reasonable expectations of 4yo's safety knowledge and impulse control, removed the hammers, and was ordering safety goggles. I think she gets how close they came to a real disaster. I sure do; the doctor confirmed it was a very near thing.

I'm stress eating cotton candy while he naps :-D