The Mists of Avalon - spoilers

[aurora]

I just finished Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon and realized how much I had forgotten since I read it previously. I can't remember how old I was then - it might have been as far back as high school - but I wanted to discuss. I know MrsAxilla finished it recently, too, but I assume we're not the only ones who have read it.

I think one of my biggest issues was the religious gender dynamics. Every time either of the Merlins would say something like "all gods are one God, and everyone should worship as they see fit," I wanted to yell at them "You're not the one whose entire gender is being repressed for symbolizing original sin under the new god!" It felt like an "easy for you to say" type of situation.

I may be more alert to the politics of gender-based discrimination now than I was when I first read the book.

I guess the druids were willing to die for the goddess and the whole idea of the head priestess choosing a new consort as often as annually and the old one dying for the land isn't great for men, but can we find some balance between the two extremes?

I definitely appreciate the King Arthur story from the feminine perspective. This book gives a lot of background and side story that you don't get in some of the other tellings. Perhaps because it is more than 800 pages long.

I don't feel like I really understand what actually happened to the Grail. Maybe that is the point?

I like that Morgaine was flawed. She definitely seemed human.

[MrsAxilla]

I was about 2/3 through the book when it first occurred to me that the religion of the Goddess was just as oppressive and destructive as Christianity was portrayed. I wish I could remember what specifically made me realize that (I tried flipping back through, but that's not so easy on kindle). The reader (or me, anyway) relates to Morgaine and sympathizes with the loss of her way of life, and it seems to be a good versus evil story. But her obsession (or mission, I suppose) to preserve it leads her to do progressively more terrible things. At some point her absolute faith in the Goddess turned into absolute faith in the righteousness of her own actions. When her plans fail, she is left faithless. It wasn't a very happy story overall.

All I know of the Arthur story I learned from Monty Python - lol. I didn't know how the story ended and so I kept being surprised. At one point I thought Lancelet and Gwenhwyfar were going to ride into Avalon or the fairy land and not be seen again. But then I turned the page and the story kept going - lol.

Last night as we were failing asleep, whatever Science channel show was on was discussing new discoveries in Scotland - "could it be evidence of King Arthur's mythical court??" They described a little of what life was like in the 600s and it was so primitive. The image in my mind was more like King Henry's court, but that's a THOUSAND years later!

Also, I wish there was a pronunciation guide. I knew Gwenhwyfar, of course, but my mind was blown when I finally worked out that Gwydion is probably Gideon and Gawaine is probably Gavin (duh!). I just went to the Wikipedia page to get those spellings, and the age was last edited three hours ago. Who is updating the page for a 30 year old book today?!?

[MrsAxilla]

Oh, re: the Grail - I'm a little confused on the geography. Avalon is not physical anymore? The church in Avalon seems to be connected to the one on Glastonbury. I think the Grail is in the Avalon church, and I think that's where Galahad found it. Lancelet was in the Glastonbury church that was also somehow in Avalon when he found the Grail. I think. Lol.

[aurora]

Oct 23, 2017 12:26:23 GMT -5 MrsAxilla said:

I was about 2/3 through the book when it first occurred to me that the religion of the Goddess was just as oppressive and destructive as Christianity was portrayed. I wish I could remember what specifically made me realize that (I tried flipping back through, but that's not so easy on kindle). The reader (or me, anyway) relates to Morgaine and sympathizes with the loss of her way of life, and it seems to be a good versus evil story. But her obsession (or mission, I suppose) to preserve it leads her to do progressively more terrible things. At some point her absolute faith in the Goddess turned into absolute faith in the righteousness of her own actions. When her plans fail, she is left faithless. It wasn't a very happy story overall.

...

Well, I'd say that any religion that actually asks people to die for it (not voluntarily, but because some leader who may or may not actually be divinely inspired says so) is oppressive. Avalon certainly isn't an ethical leader in that respect.

I think Morgaine suffering for presuming to know and act on the Goddess' will fits, even though I agree with you that it wasn't a happy story overall.

ETA and the whole book is essentially about the dying of a religion! So definitely not happy.

Every time the characters kept saying (toward the end) "when we were all young together" I shivered a bit. I guess it's natural for humans to live more and more in the past as we age, but it hit a little close to home in some ways. How often do I look back to happy times in the past vs. planning for the future? And I'm not even old yet!

[aurora]

Also to your point about timeline: I also forget about the timing of Arthur's court, but in the book they're learning how to train horses to be used in battle! So it's definitely a long time ago.

[MrsAxilla]

Oct 23, 2017 12:50:40 GMT -5 aurora said:

Also to your point about timeline: I also forget about the timing of Arthur's court, but in the book they're learning how to train horses to be used in battle! So it's definitely a long time ago.

Right!  And the Saxons are still a separate people!  

[sassypants]

I read it ages ago, and I discovered after the fact that there were more books in the series. I think I accidentally ended up reading them in reverse order, too. There may even be a couple I haven't read yet. The stories are so intricate and it's been too long. I love it, though.

[aurora]

Oct 23, 2017 22:43:35 GMT -5 sassypants said:

I read it ages ago, and I discovered after the fact that there were more books in the series. I think I accidentally ended up reading them in reverse order, too. There may even be a couple I haven't read yet. The stories are so intricate and it's been too long. I love it, though.

IIRC they all kind of stand alone even though they are interrelated. Maybe I just also did not read them in order.

I also have The Forest House and have not read it in years, maybe decades. I think I picked them both up a few years ago from a used book sale thinking they'd be fun to re-read.