Residual Thanksgiving issues

[mae0111]

So I posted that BILs and DH never came back from lunch after BILs promised to do something with the kids. DH was not part of yhe promise or activity, which I didn't realize at the time.

The look of disappointment when the kids realized that they were being stood up was heartbreaking, so SIL and I tried to make it up to them. But not before I called DH to ask where they were. DH's response was sh!tty, along the lines of that it wasn't my problem that his brother broke a promise. So I said goodbye and hung up quickly.

Apparently, BIL told DH that he had a problem "managing [his] wife". WTAF??? I've never had an issue with BIL, other than the fact that he drinks too much, and I've never said that to him. I guess DH laid into him, but they all hung out for hours after it happened. HOURS.

I'm so angry, but I don't want DH to feel any more awkward than he already does. In the end, it's his brother, and I don't want to be the cause of a rift. At the same time, I do not want that a-hole in my house, nor will I set foot in his. Which is tricky since we live 5 hrs apart.

Advice? PDQ, may delete.

[supertrooper1]

I would let it go. YH stood up for you. Working with mostly men, I hear this sometimes. They say as a joke, but probably deep down they believe it.

Although I wouldn't forgive YH just yet for staying out drinking all weekend and not thinking he did something wrong after you had asked him not to.

[sdlaura]

I'm surprised that your DH told you what BIL said. Was it just so he could get points for standing up for you? How could he not realize that would impact your relationship with his brother? I'd be pretty pissed if my DH realized that the kids were sad about a broken promise (whoever made it) and still stayed out for hours. But maybe he was trying to look cool for BIL? I'd probably chalk it up to insecurity.

[mae0111]

H apologized for handling the whole day poorly once I explained why I was angry. For whatever reason, he thought I would know that "lunch" meant "all day affair", even though it never has been in the past.

He believes that I spoil our kids by wanting to entertain them constantly. He didn't hear the promise, so assumed I was overreacting. I told him everything - the conversation, how all of the kids were behaving, how disappointed they were... and he got it.

As far as him telling me... he was obviously trying to cover up something that his brother said about me. I pressured him to tell me because it was clearly bothering him a lot. I probably should have let it go. BIL treats his wife like crap, and she lets him. She never pushes back, doesn't seem to have her own friends (which is sad, because she's great). BIL bragged because SIL wasn't calling him about the kids... probably because she has given up.

Before this, DH had invited them to stay for a few days after Christmas. He's going to make up an excuse and tell them not to come. I asked him not to make any more waves, but he's having issues with BIL that go way beyond this. I think uninviting them will cause a rift, but DH thinks that BIL won't care at all. He's probably right.

[rere]

In all honesty, I would probably make a snide comment next time he was around, like "oh, maybe I need to be managed. " It would almost be an involuntary reaction. Not a good idea, but probably what would happen.

[twinmomma]

I think you can probably only address the issues with your DH - lay down very specific ground rules for what is expected at family gatherings in the future, use this as an example whenever DH gets defensive/snippy about it, and make sure that you two have a solid game plan going into Christmas. I know you tried to do this for Thanksgiving and it didn't work, but hopefully having a solid example of what NOT to do makes your DH think twice in the future. As for your BIL, if your DH already layed into him, there's probably not a lot you can do at this point. If it comes up again, I wouldn't bite my tongue and I'd definitely have something to say about it, but I think you kind of have to wait and see if what your DH said this time makes a difference before you can cut them out entirely.

[sweetptater]

I'd be pissed and probably take the same approach as rere, but I'm not good at "making nice" when someone disrespects me. I'd definitely uninvite them for Christmas, I wouldn't be able to keep my poker face for that long. Your DH sounds like he gets it, which is good.

[xctsclrx]

mae0111 , My next few actions would depend largely on past actions. For your H, does he normally come through for the kids? He doesn't drink like this unless it is with his family? How often do you see this family?

If you see this family only at thanksgiving and Christmas then I would probably re evaluate my expectations of H during family time. You said he does this every time so it is probably not going to change. If you see this family a lot more often then I would slowly be cutting down family time to maybe 3 times a year.

As for BIL- if you are not willing to confront him then you have to let it go. Make sure you point out to your kids every time he treats his wife poorly so they know it is not okay. Do not make him a role model for your kids and I would make sure they are not at his house unsupervised. Also if possible be an ear to your SIL sounds like she needs one. This isn't something that I would cut off communication about, but I would start managing my kids expectation of their uncle. "I know Uncle said, but sometimes he is not good at keeping promises." That way they are not crushed when he doesn't follow through, and excited when he does.

It's a good way to teach them that some people suck. Then they can make their choices about who they want in their life.

[mae0111]

We don't see his family a ton (probably 4-5 times a year). There is heavy drinking involved any time we see his family or his friends. I'm tired of addressing it over and over again, and the kids are getting to an age where they notice behavioral changes when DH drinks. DD1 definitely notices.

I'm guaranteed to be snarky if we see them for Christmas. I was totally snarky at Thanksgiving over the broken promise, even before I heard about the comment. And that will cause such a problem for DH that I really need to keep myself in check.

Unfortunately I'm at a point where I no longer want to attend any events involving his family. Not just because of BIL, but because I can't stand the drunken behavior anymore. I'm 42, not 24. It's not fun for me. It's embarrassing. And I'm the only one in the room that feels that way, because everyone in his entire extended family drinks heavily. I can't fathom the bar bill at the last family wedding.

[sudokufan]

mae0111, if this causes a rift between your H and BIL, it won't be because of you, it'll be because your BIL acted like an ass and your H recognized that. Sorry you're having family drama

[akafred]

xctshdx or whatever (seriously, how do you even remember your login?) gave good advice above.

Manage your expectations, create an explicit plan, over-communicate (TELL your H that uncle douchebag told the kids you would be back to do stuff with them), and help the kids understand why uncle douchebag is flaky. Unfortunately my DD understands at 8 that just because a couple of people we know say they will come to her birthday party or meet us in three days or whatever, doesn't mean it will happen. She recognizes it is the case for some more than others. I HATE that it is so, and try to shield her from it as much as I can by not telling her about certain plans until day of, but sometimes they say it directly to her so she knows or she asks me and I tell her.

[akafred]

@mae01111, I am really worried about the drinking and driving.

[xctsclrx]

akafred, hahaha its the first letter of each name at my house surrounded my x's so it's not so hard for me to remember.

[twinmomma]

Nov 29, 2017 8:51:07 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

Unfortunately I'm at a point where I no longer want to attend any events involving his family. Not just because of BIL, but because I can't stand the drunken behavior anymore. I'm 42, not 24. It's not fun for me. It's embarrassing. And I'm the only one in the room that feels that way, because everyone in his entire extended family drinks heavily. I can't fathom the bar bill at the last family wedding.

Could you make a deal that you and the kids attend to make an appearance, and then you leave DH to his own devices? There's no reason for you to have to sit through drunken shenanigans because your in laws are like this. I feel the same way sometimes with the giant extended family party that we have to go to each year. It's so hard when there's such a culture of drinking in the family. It wasn't until a few of DH's uncles ended up in AA that the family parties toned down. 

[mommyatty]

Nov 29, 2017 7:38:28 GMT -5 rere said:

In all honesty, I would probably make a snide comment next time he was around, like "oh, maybe I need to be managed. " It would almost be an involuntary reaction. Not a good idea, but probably what would happen.

Solidarity fist bump. I would too. And I know it would be counter-productive. Assholes gonna ass. 

Hey, I have my new motto! 

[mae0111]

akafred - DH doesn't drink and drive anymore. He used to, but I have him an ultimatum many years ago. I think I've given him a total of 3 ultimatums ever, so he took it seriously. He Ubers, finds a ride and leaves his car, or crashes where he is. If I'm there, I'm the DD.

[erinshelley21]

I'm going to second everything xctsclrx said with a bit of rere 's snide remarks mixed in.
And also I would thank your H for laying into his brother over the comment about managing you if you haven't already. Standing up for you was the right thing to do, no doubt, but after a few days of tension between you guys a "thank you" might go a really long way.

Is there somewhere else you guys can stay when you go visit? Like a nearby hotel with a water park or something? That way you're not stuck there dealing with drunkenness and you're also not just stuck in a standard hotel with nothing to do.

[akafred]

Nov 29, 2017 10:03:25 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

akafred - DH doesn't drink and drive anymore. He used to, but I have him an ultimatum many years ago. I think I've given him a total of 3 ultimatums ever, so he took it seriously. He Ubers, finds a ride and leaves his car, or crashes where he is. If I'm there, I'm the DD.

Ok good. That has been bugging me since your original post on it.

[k3am]

Nov 29, 2017 10:16:56 GMT -5 erinshelley21 said:

Is there somewhere else you guys can stay when you go visit? Like a nearby hotel with a water park or something? That way you're not stuck there dealing with drunkenness and you're also not just stuck in a standard hotel with nothing to do.

This has been really helpful for us for family events and we don't have anywhere near this level of drama. But it's nice to have a home base where you're on your own terms, even if it's only in small increments. You don't even need a fancy hotel, my kids are happy enough with a standard hotel with nothing to do, mostly because the normal home rules go out the window. 

We also have started doing it when people come to visit us, even if it means us footing the bill. Having my mom stay at a hotel for Thanksgiving vs. on our couch was basically the best decision we've ever made. 

[waverly]

The drunken behavior of DH and the entire family would bother me. I like you am not 24 anymore, and I don't want to put up with it.

I would let your H uninvite BIL especially since he doesn't think BIL will care, so unlikely to cause a rift. Especially with a good excuse. Enjoy a quiet Christmas at home.

As far as the future, I agree to visit and stay in a hotel or better yet get into counseling with your H on why he has to be drunk the entire time at his relatives. It sounds like drinking and driving isn't a problem, but there may be an ongoing drinking problem with your H that is worth solving apart from the relatives. It sounds like the relatives make the drinking worse, and for that reason I would avoid them as much as possible.

I am sorry. I have a similar situation (not the drinking), but avoiding relatives 5 hours away because of their politics and racism. We stay elsewhere and try to make all events outside the home if we can.

[sudokufan]

k3am, OMG yes. My parents always stay at a hotel when they come to visit now. Partly because we have a small house with no place on the first floor to put them, but still. It gives all of us space to get a break. They can go to bed or get a shower or go out for a late dinner without having to consider the 4yo, H can walk around in his boxers, I do loads of laundry without worrying about waking them. Etc.

[2chatter]

Hopefully distance from the incident will help. I’m judged by DH’s brother regarding DH’s kids — And I have had to just really let that go. It’s not my fault at all how his kids are or that BIL has an opinion - and the rest of his family recognizes that. I just pretend like I don’t know/don’t care - and over the years it’s gotten much easier.

[ECB]

Nov 29, 2017 8:52:40 GMT -5 sudokufan said:

mae0111 , if this causes a rift between your H and BIL, it won't be because of you, it'll be because your BIL acted like an ass and your H recognized that. Sorry you're having family drama

This.  Because his shitty attitude is directed at you doesn't mean YOU are causing the rift.  His shitty, drunken behavior is causing the rift.  

And if your DH wants to dis-invite them AND you don't want to see them...why on earth would you encourage your DH to NOT dis-invite them?  You need to step back and let your DH set boundaries where HE sees a need for them.  He seems to get it to a degree that the drinking and their behavior is an issue.  If this is a small step of his to acknowledge that, then let him make that step.

This is HIS choice in reaction to HIS brothers shitty behavior. 

[ECB]

To add- and I hope I can articulate this well....

I've seen this kind of thing before - the wife not wanting to be the cause of the rift.

But what does that mean? By sitting back and "not being the cause", what it's ultimately doing is saying "Eh, Crappy Behavior A is o.k.!" - to both your DH and his BIL. By feeling you can't say "I"m pissed and don't want to be around him", it says to your DH that in the big picture, it's REALLY not that big of an issue.

No! This isn't fair to you. This being his brother, being "family", doesn't give anyone an out. I've said this so many times in my life- of anyone, FAMILY should be who you expect to treat you the BEST. Not the worst. Giving a pass because they're family... no!

And ultimately- you need to come first in your DHs life. Not his brother. And right now it seems that your DH is trying to put you first. GOOD. Don't put yourself in 2nd place. That's not where you belong.

[mae0111]

ECB - I didn't want him to disinvite solely due to his comments. He's got other reasons, so I was more on board with rescinding the invite after I understood that. But I also wanted the kids to spend time with MIL. She won't drive or fly to see us, so the only options are to drive 5 hrs each way to pick her up, or have her come with BIL.

I have been refusing to stay with BIL since they moved there 3 years ago. We stayed once, and that was enough. We stay with MIL now, which is easy as she tends to stay out of the fray. But DH wants to spend every waking minute with BIL while we are there. Had I known what that last day was really going to entail, I would have planned things much differently.