How to help DH with depression? sorry-long

[waverly]

DH has untreated depression.  He probably has always had it.  It was sort of bad in college.  When he moved away for his first job, it seemed better but I wasn't really around him as much then. 

2 years later, I graduated college and moved in with him.  He was a bit obsessive about work, but not really depressed.  We didn't have a ton of friends there, but we had our co-workers  and some friends.  But he decided he wanted to make more money, and we moved back for his grad school.  I would say it was mostly OK, but the economy fell apart 2008, so he was really worried about internships and full time jobs so he had some issues around that.  Some career issues here in the engineering field. 

His time at his first company was up and down.  He did say it was the job he liked the best.  He was in a consulting job though, not a career path he could use in the real world, so I guess he is glad he left.  But he ended up at such as a$$hole firm after that it totally shook his confidence.  His other jobs after that have been plagued with him having to figure things out or bosses that are very dictatorial.  He has done OK, but it has taken a toll on his psyche.  I tell him that is the environment he gets in business where they pay him well.  He isn't going to get the supportive atmosphere that I have at my job that makes a lot less than him.  (Not saying lower paying jobs are more supportive just the difference between our 2 industries).

I really don't have any ideas.  I try to tell him to see a counselor, but he refuses.  His childhood was rough, so he was an angry child so his parents sent him to counseling.  The idea was that everything was his fault, so he has to go to counseling.  Never mind that he was a child, and it was the parents fault.  His parents used to spank him with a belt, and his mom threw plates at him several times, for example.  All 3 kids have issues from their childhood.  It was a toxic environment. 

I try to tell him to try medication, but he refuses.  Even though his entire immediate family has depression and are all on medication at this point.  His mom is much better now.  His dad was better for a long time, but lately has been ranting- perhaps cognitive decline? The parents are almost 70.

I bring home books on depression, but he doesn't even really look at them.  It really doesn't affect our day to day life too much.  He makes a point of trying not to have it affect us too much.  But somewhere along the way he has started to wake up at 5am and has done that for several years now.  It affects his sleep.  He then goes downstairs and alternatively mopes and/ or sleeps on the couch or surfs the internet.  I try to say sleep in longer because it is partly exhaustion, but he still gets up and says he can't sleep even though he naps afterwards.  And I don't think the surfing of the internet is helping him.  It's like nostalgia and he is looking up people he used to know and being mopey and sad about it, and thinking life was better then (it wasn't but his perspective is skewed).  Or it is porn sometimes, which is kind of an issue for me kind of not.  It seems to throw off our timing.  Maybe it has always had an impact, but I wasn't aware of it? 

Any suggestions? Should I just stop trying to help him?  He seems to want me to try, but then says I would be scared if I knew too much- not sure what that means.  I feel he uses me as a therapist, but then won't see an actual therapist.  And he seems to be masking the depression in an almost obsession of his work/ talking about his work/ talking about his frustration with work.  Work is central, anyway, and I try to say there are other things than work, but it doesn't sink in.  He is extremely hard headed and stubborn.  I don't want to push him too hard, but pushing him really hard is the only way to get him to take action.  Like probably I would have to say I was leaving him and actually move out before he actually pursued therapy and medication, and even then he probably wouldn't because he has decided that is not for him.  But I don't know of any tried and true ways of dealing with depression besides that.  I mean I have heard of eating better, taking fish oil and st. Johns wart and all of those holistic things, but I don't think those kinds of things really work....

[2chatter]

Forcing emotional distance worked here. When DH couldn’t use me as his therapist and I wouldn’t listen any more to his million work obsessions or hypochondrias or musings he realized that I was serious that something had to change. I’d ask every so often if he wanted to see someone. Initially I had him get a full panel and look for low T. When his primary confirmed it wasn’t that, he was brittle about it. Continued on. He then agreed to see someone. It took a long time. They upped his meds and he’s way better.

He may be referring to things he thinks when he says you don’t want to know or he won’t tell you. DH apparently had to count to three before doing lots of things - like light switches and if he was interrupted he had to start over. So you can imagine trying to leave the house and i asked him to turn off the lights, with three kids and a dog and how many times he was interrupted and then he would be really stressed. Things like that. Two weeks ago he actually changed a flight to land earlier because his doctor could only seem him earlier at the last minute. I never thought I would see the day.

We had an argument earlier this week and he called me today that he will talk to his doctor about it (it’s an over reacting thing on his part and a refusal to over analyze further on mine). He acknowledged that he knows I’m right but said he needs help.

So push a little bit. Not too much. And reserve more of yourself if you can. It takes a toll on you.

[traveltheworld]

Does he behaviour affect your children? I find that with my DH, he would avoid almost any issue, big or small, unless I tie it to either our marriage or our children. My DH was clinically depressed as a teenager, still had some issues in his early 20s, and over the past decade, had a few bouts of depression. Pre-kids, it was impossible to get him to go see anyone or try to fix it because his thinking was that "it's not so bad". But post-kids, I told him that his behaviour affected the kids and we want to ensure that our kids learn good mental health habits, so that prompted him into being more active in managing his depression.

In all honestly, I think my DH was "depressed" (or at least more so) because he wanted more attention from me. He knew that if he was depressed, then I'd try to help him fix it, and lavish him with attention and assistance. And he found that comforting. Several years ago, I told him that I'm done with that. I'd only help him if I see that he is at least making an effort to help himself. He is currently going through a pretty tough time at work and I've exhausted all useful suggestions, so instead I've started working out every day at home with him under the pretense that "I" need him to help keep me motivated. I think the exercise has helped.

[waverly]

Yeah it may be a good strategy to say I can't listen to this anymore- see someone that can.

I don't think he will change his mind though on a therapist. And he wouldn't ask the doctor either, but he does go in for physicals. I asked him to ask the doctor, and he wouldn't.

[2chatter]

waverly - DH didn’t ask last year or the year before, but he did this year! And the other weird caveat here is DH sees an MD/PHD. It’s overkill for Zoloft, but I called the practice and explained my challenge and they matched us with a doctor willing to help. It was SUPER important to DH that he was NOT seeing a therapist.

[waverly]

Dec 13, 2017 16:18:04 GMT -5 traveltheworld said:

Does he behaviour affect your children? I find that with my DH, he would avoid almost any issue, big or small, unless I tie it to either our marriage or our children. My DH was clinically depressed as a teenager, still had some issues in his early 20s, and over the past decade, had a few bouts of depression. Pre-kids, it was impossible to get him to go see anyone or try to fix it because his thinking was that "it's not so bad". But post-kids, I told him that his behaviour affected the kids and we want to ensure that our kids learn good mental health habits, so that prompted him into being more active in managing his depression.

In all honestly, I think my DH was "depressed" (or at least more so) because he wanted more attention from me. He knew that if he was depressed, then I'd try to help him fix it, and lavish him with attention and assistance. And he found that comforting. Several years ago, I told him that I'm done with that. I'd only help him if I see that he is at least making an effort to help himself. He is currently going through a pretty tough time at work and I've exhausted all useful suggestions, so instead I've started working out every day at home with him under the pretense that "I" need him to help keep me motivated. I think the exercise has helped.

He does get frustrated and snap at the kids, but I think he views that as frustration rather than depression.  Maybe I can frame it as possibly coming from the depression and do you want to be known as the dad that snaps/ yells.  I asked the kids who yells more me or dad, and they were both like emphatically dad.   

I am doing the physical therapy exercises with DS, so I have been putting me exercising on hold.  If I can get the PT to finally get finished and just have the OT (with no homework) to focus on, I may be able to add it back in.

I agree it is kind of an attention seeking behavior.  He gets attention from me, so no reason for negative attention, but he doesn't view it that way.  Interesting because he does seem to find comfort from me.  I also like the idea, of saying I am done with that.  I will only help him if he helps himself.  

[ilovelucyvv]

If the depression is worsened by the Work situation i would try to help the H find a new job. My H’s overall happiness is directly correlated with his happiness at work and this has helped me help him in the past.

[waverly]

Dec 13, 2017 16:37:36 GMT -5 ilovelucyvv said:

If the depression is worsened by the Work situation i would try to help the H find a new job. My H’s overall happiness is directly correlated with his happiness at work and this has helped me help him in the past.

I wish.  He has had 4 jobs since he left the original one. That is part of the problem I think- too much change. Too much stretching for him.  He decides to just think of the negative, now granted they may have been negative places.  

The first one was terrible- like the most horrible job ever pretty much.

The second one he was laid off because the company didn't bring in the work.  He felt he didn't fit in there, and no one helped him.

The third one he did OK.  It wasn't exactly a fit.  He had a long commute and a demanding boss, but it worked for a while, and he probably could have made it if not for the commute. 

The fourth one- he just started and is figuring out. He is already pointing out the negatives, and it has been 2 months.  He needs to stay positive for this to work.  It's hard, but we both think he can make a go of it.  

He keeps thinking the grass may be greener on the other side, but it isn't always.  Sometimes it is worse. And your resume can't take all that hopping forever.  Eventually it will catch up with him.  In his industry with his pay, it is always going to be hard with bosses that are hard "graders".  

[kimberlybb]

I would go the route that traveltheworld suggested about highlighting how his behavior is affecting your kids. Being an emotional caretaker is exhausting so if he is still unwilling to seek help I would look into getting some therapy for yourself. If you were in therapy he also may be more willing to join you if you frame it as needing his help/support.

[mommyatty]

My MIL has a poster in her house that says “Wherever you go, there YOU are.” It’s a profound statement. If he doesn’t deal with his shit, he’s going to be unhappy no matter what his boss is like or his job is like. Wherever he goes, there he will be, baggage and all.

I read once that your relationship with your boss is most likely to trigger memories of your relationship with your parents. After all, both groups have a tremendous amount of power over your well-being.

I can’t recommend refusing to be his dumping ground enough. It’s hard, but he’s not going to get help if you are his crutch. I would talk to him about how his issues affect you, how they affect his kids, and how much it hurts you to watch him hurt. Then, when he starts, just say “I’m sorry, but I can’t carry your weight anymore. You need help. Let me know when you’re ready to get it.”

[CrazyLucky]

I had different issues in that we didn't have kids at the time, and DH was willing to get help after a while. For us, we moved, DH was unemployed, and then his father passed away, and he spiraled into depression after that. I did everything - worked a full time job, grocery shopped, mowed the lawn, everything. I felt like I couldn't force him to do anything because he was sick and it wasn't his fault and I'd be a mean person if I made him pull his weight. Luckily for me, he was not stubborn about getting help. He went to therapy and went through three medications before finding one that helped.
My advice is to not be too kind too him. Looking back, I really think all the coddling I did was very unhelpful. Also, there are books out there for spouses of people with depression. They helped me. If nothing else, they helped me realize that a lot of people go through it, I wasn't alone.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I know it sucks. Those were really difficult times.

[shakinros]

Over the years I’ve have the best success with 2chatter ‘s emotional distance tactic. It’s my life and DD’s life too and I’m not having those held back because of DH’s issues. We go on, he can come with if he chooses to.

Reading about overfunctioning - underfunctioning relationships has also been helpful reinforcement for me, and I like that it helps me focus on what I can control. I wasn’t part of his childhood issues but I had a big role in making our relationship what it is.

Also DH took several years to decide to see a therapist and it’s been 18 months of visits before he agreed medication might be good. Probably still another month or two to go before he makes the appt to get the medication. Progress is slow but I think waiting for him to take these steps is the only way to achieve his buy-in.

[waverly]

I may have to start seeing a therapist myself. Between him and his job stuff and my job stuff and medical issues with family members- maybe it's time to go back.

[waverly]

It's a Christmas miracle. After 18 years of saying he wouldn't see a therapist, he agreed to see one if I make the appointment.

He also wants a high level (executive maybe?) career counselor. They could be remote and just counsel over the phone. Does anyone know someone? They would have to have experience with business executives who have an MBA. 2chatter, I figure if anyone knows this type of career counselor it would be you.


Also he agreed to have a vasectomy. Crazy. I can't believe it. I keep missing pills and scaring him. I mean I am not missing pills on purpose. But when I do accidentally miss a pill I am like see that that is baby #3.

[2chatter]

waverly - DH won’t go the career counselor route. It infuriated me as his mentor at work owns the company and is ... the kind of guy you probably don’t want as your mentor.

[waverly]

I just want to know where to find this mysterious career counselor mythical creature. A friend had a name, but I don't think he ever gave it to DH. Dh will ask him again.

[freezorburn]

waverly if there is a local counselor that you can find, I highly recommend someone that YH can meet with face-to-face, rather than over the phone. I have found that with the counselor I am currently working with, she is able to give me valuable insight by reading my facial expressions and body language. Maybe Skype is an ok subsitute if you can’t find someone conveniently located though.

[waverly]

freezorburn , I went to one that had coveted Saturday appointments, so I will start there. Otherwise I think I will look through his work benefits website since most workplaces offer local.

What I wanted that was remote was a 2nd counselor this one focusing on the career. I thought that was better than nothing if I couldn't find local, but no idea how to find senior manager level career coaches that can help him get to the director level.

[shakinros]

waverly I’m going to PM you a recommendation for someone one of my previous bosses worked with. It’s kind of a sports-based approach (funny, since my boss doesn’t play sports) in the sense that it’s coaching that focuses on mental prep for high performance.

[waverly]

Ok I called my old counseling place that I went to like 8 years ago. They wouldn't let me make an appointment for him, but I at least clued them on what was going on. I gave him their phone number and the date and wording for how to make the appointment. So he didn't have to say depression he could say oh my wife talked to you about this so that and other things.

I also gave him the info to the executive coaching.

So the ball is in his court now. He should have no excuses.

[2chatter]

waverly that is awesome - great way to set it up. It does make me LOL - you know that there are women out there trying to sign their totally sane husbands up for counseling! I hope your DH calls and attends the appointment - KUP!

[waverly]

Dec 20, 2017 11:16:49 GMT -5 2chatter said:

waverly that is awesome - great way to set it up. It does make me LOL - you know that there are women out there trying to sign their totally sane husbands up for counseling! I hope your DH calls and attends the appointment - KUP!

I know I could totally see some crazy lady trying to sign her sane husband up for counseling. I only called because he asked me too. But I'm sure they have heard it all!

[waverly]

He called both places (and got voicemail) but yay for forward progress!