Frequency of In Law Visits

[akafred]

Jan 3, 2018 15:59:38 GMT -5 ECB said:

Jan 3, 2018 13:29:13 GMT -5 erinshelley21 said:

I'm like akafred on not really wanting to push it. It's not fair of me to say this, but I would give almost anything in the world to have my kids know my dad, even though he would have taught them the most awful things lol

There's still a balance to be had, though.  We deal with my 82 year old FIL.  He's frustrating and what not, but in the vein of "we don't know how much longer he'll be around" (although the men in his family seem to live to 100!!), DH is very gentle with him.  He doesn't want to hurt his dad's feelings.

BUT DH also sets boundaries.  Gently, but he sets them.  

Totally agree. I would just try the less abrasive methods to gain their cooperation vs telling them not to come as often or that they need to stay in a hotel first.

[erinshelley21]

Jan 3, 2018 16:24:03 GMT -5 akafred said:

Jan 3, 2018 15:59:38 GMT -5 ECB said:

There's still a balance to be had, though.  We deal with my 82 year old FIL.  He's frustrating and what not, but in the vein of "we don't know how much longer he'll be around" (although the men in his family seem to live to 100!!), DH is very gentle with him.  He doesn't want to hurt his dad's feelings.

BUT DH also sets boundaries.  Gently, but he sets them.  

Totally agree. I would just try the less abrasive methods to gain their cooperation vs telling them not to come as often or that they need to stay in a hotel first.

This is what I was getting at

[vasc]

I feel like I have a lot to say about this because it has also been my reality, so bear with me.

My short answer is that six weeks is too frequent especially if they’re staying in the house with you and I’d only maintain that frequency if they promise to stay in a hotel and actually go back to the hotel at times that make sense to provide everyone a break (I.e. the kids are napping from 2-4,so go back to the hotel and rest yourself and then return for dinner).

In my situation, my parents are the ones who need “Parenting,” although not as severely as some of you describe. My dad can be gruff and boorish and my mom will try to call him out on it, but it turns into arguments and H and I get uncomfortable (H more than me). There was a big blow out Halloween weekend 2014 where my dad was helping H with some yard work, but just was being 7npleasant, and H blew up at him. From then on my parents said they’d stay at a hotel.

We moved and had a few good visits with that arrangement until the election last year, which brought out a lot more problems between my H and Dad (we talk politics pretty openly here). You can guess who my gruff and boorish father voted for. 🙄. That was the icing on the cake for my H to declare he no longer wanted a relationship with my father and would no longer welcome him to our house.

So use my story as a cautionary tale....your H’s feelings are valid and I wouldn’t try to push his limits of tolerance for them any further. I don’t like the situation with my parents (mom and I FT regularly and dad too if he’s there) but have accepted that my relationship with my husband is more important and therefore my efforts need to be on protecting the marriage we have rather than my relationship with my father (really, on a side note, it’s my relationship with my mother that I worry more about, as she refuses to visit alone without dad...but that’s her decision).

As far as concerns over being able to have time with grandparents while they’re still alive....I guess my question is, at what expense? If their visits are stressful to you and harmful to your marriage, is it worth trying to accommodate their visits just because eventually they’re going to die and you won’t have their visits anymore? If after they die your marriage is in shambles because of how you bent over backwards to accommodate them rather than your husband (and it sounds like your wishes, too), then that’s not good for the family as a whole either.

[vasc]

Wanted to add that my anecdote has shown me how important it is to choose a partner my future adult children and their spouses will want to be around. Neither H nor my brother's wife can stand my dad. Brother and I can tolerate him more because we are used to it and don't take it personally, but it's our spouses who draw the line. I'd hate for that to happen in the future with my kids.

[akafred]

vasc, *personally* I draw the line at destructive people. I minimize them at all costs. People who are generally nice, loving people to me and my family but have some annoying habits or present some inconveniences I try to maintain the relationship and problem solve the challenges in other ways, with more detente I guess. At least initially. That doesn't mean steamrolling other people's concerns, it just means trying to find solutions that address everyone'a concerns.

[vasc]

Jan 4, 2018 10:03:00 GMT -5 akafred said:

vasc, *personally* I draw the line at destructive people. I minimize them at all costs. People who are generally nice, loving people to me and my family but have some annoying habits or present some inconveniences I try to maintain the relationship and problem solve the challenges in other ways, with more detente I guess. At least initially. That doesn't mean steamrolling other people's concerns, it just means trying to find solutions that address everyone'a concerns.

So I guess in my situation, my husband views dad as destructive....I'm more on the fence....so in a marriage, whose view do ya go with? 🤷‍♀️

[akafred]

Jan 4, 2018 10:49:15 GMT -5 vasc said:

Jan 4, 2018 10:03:00 GMT -5 akafred said:

vasc, *personally* I draw the line at destructive people. I minimize them at all costs. People who are generally nice, loving people to me and my family but have some annoying habits or present some inconveniences I try to maintain the relationship and problem solve the challenges in other ways, with more detente I guess. At least initially. That doesn't mean steamrolling other people's concerns, it just means trying to find solutions that address everyone'a concerns.

So I guess in my situation, my husband views dad as destructive....I'm more on the fence....so in a marriage, whose view do ya go with? 🤷‍♀️

My ex-MIL literally shouted swear at me in a restaurant on Christmas Eve and called me a "stupid little bitch" as well as screaming borderline racist epithets. My ex-H considered my keeping my distance from her in the future (NOTE: we still visited her house the following Christmas but for a shorter visit and I did not want to go out in public with her that trip) to be "holding a grudge". I consider that clearly destructive behavior. But I know the line can get blurry.

[phdmomma]

I appreciate all of the advice. And it's given me a great deal to consider. I do struggle with wanting them to have a relationship with their grandkids, all of my grandparents were dead before I graduated high school. And I'm not sure how many good years my parents have left.

DH and I talked about what things are critical to "hold the line" with them and what we can let go while they are visiting. Honestly it is exhausting to try to watch them every minute while they visit for a weekend, I would get absolutely nothing done in terms of housework or cleaning up the disasters. And a weekend is a long time. One of the other folks hit in on the head, my mom can be very passive aggressive, and sometimes it is very much so not worth dealing with the aftermath of.

[waverly]

phdmomma, Why do you have to watch them all weekend?

I definitely understand on the passive aggressive. It is so annoying and angering to deal with.

[ECB]

Jan 4, 2018 12:19:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

phdmomma, Why do you have to watch them all weekend?

I definitely understand on the passive aggressive. It is so annoying and angering to deal with.

i suspect it’s because they don’t respect the rules so she needs to watch what they do/don’t do.

[akafred]

Jan 4, 2018 12:36:09 GMT -5 ECB said:

Jan 4, 2018 12:19:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

phdmomma, Why do you have to watch them all weekend?

I definitely understand on the passive aggressive. It is so annoying and angering to deal with.

i suspect it’s because they don’t respect the rules so she needs to watch what they do/don’t do.

Which could cross the line to destructive. What I would do start by reiterating the rule *to* the kids *in front of* the grandparents. Then I would remind my parents of the rules too if they continued. Then I would have a full blown conversation about it. "We love to spend time with you, but when you don't respect our house rules it sends a confusing message to the kids as well as being frustrating and creating more work for us. Can we discuss this and figure out a way to make this work better for everyone?

[waverly]

Jan 4, 2018 12:36:09 GMT -5 ECB said:

Jan 4, 2018 12:19:22 GMT -5 waverly said:

phdmomma , Why do you have to watch them all weekend?

I definitely understand on the passive aggressive. It is so annoying and angering to deal with.

i suspect it’s because they don’t respect the rules so she needs to watch what they do/don’t do.

I was thinking just the food, couch, bedtime issue.  But it sounds like it might be more like EVERYTHING if they need more vigilance than just at mealtimes/ snack times and bedtime. 

As for toys we usually just do a clean up before nap and another one before bed, so I wasn't thinking that was an all day thing.  But if people are more in the put this away before getting that out, then I can definitely see that being all the time.   

Mine are much more mild versions of this, so while they eat whatever and make a mess, it's not that bad, and they stay in a hotel by choice and would not be the type of people to be offended about hotels and visits.  So I may change my answer to less often if I have to spend the entire weekend every moment managing them rather than them managing themselves productively. 

[vasc]

Jan 4, 2018 12:43:18 GMT -5 akafred said:

Jan 4, 2018 12:36:09 GMT -5 ECB said:

i suspect it’s because they don’t respect the rules so she needs to watch what they do/don’t do.

Which could cross the line to destructive. What I would do start by reiterating the rule *to* the kids *in front of* the grandparents. Then I would remind my parents of the rules too if they continued. Then I would have a full blown conversation about it. "We love to spend time with you, but when you don't respect our house rules it sends a confusing message to the kids as well as being frustrating and creating more work for us. Can we discuss this and figure out a way to make this work better for everyone?

This conversation sounds nice. In my house, I might say something like that (i.e.: Dad, can you use a nicer tone and not talk over us?) but would be met with "I didn't know I was using a bad tone" or a reply of "Il try" but back to a harsh tone ten minutes later. There's no self-awareness of how he comes across to others much less much remorse. His emotional IQ is nonexistent. Hence Dh's beef. So although it's not outwardly cruel like your ex-MIL, it's still cringeworthy and something my H refuses to put up with.

[186momx]

phdmomma, are your parents newly retired? I'm just asking because if they are they may be making all these trips because they are bored and don't know what to do.

If it is that stressful having them at the house all day then I would plan things to get them out of the house. Do you let them drive the kids around? Could they do some special 1 on 1 visit time with each kid and take them someplace like the museum, bounce house, zoo so that they are not just camped out in your living room?

[phdmomma]

waverly, ECB, that was more in response to the questions about them having control. I would have to physically watch them the whole time for them to respect all of the rules. I know that they feel like they are trying, it's just a challenge.

186momx, I do try to plan things where they take the kids somewhere and that usually goes pretty well. They have been mostly retired for over a decade. I think part of it is that most of their friends have grandkids who live pretty close to them geographically.

But ultimately they are parents who require parenting, which is something I struggle with.

[erinshelley21]

I had to go back and re-read some of the responses, but I think the part I'd prioritize trying to address is them fighting in front of your kids since you've said the do that a lot of the time and its a bad example. Maybe pointing that out will make a light bulb go off in their heads like "Okay, if they are seeing this from us, what else are we doing that we don't want to pass on to them." I realize this is a long shot, but the fighting would bother me the most.

If you have to lie and say it bothers the kids and they've said things about the fighting after the visits, I would consider it.

[freezorburn]

Totally get the whole guilt coming from mom thing. My mother is master at this -- it's a big piece of what landed me in therapy during college.

This is another piece of where boundaries come in. Because boundaries can only accomplish so much when you want someone else's behavior to change. You can tell someone that you have a boundary -- but that doesn't mean they will respect it. So what are your options? How do you reinforce your boundaries, from the standpoint of your own behavior, in order to preserve your health?

In my own situation, I have severely limited contact with my parents. I just don't have time or energy to deal with their negativity and judgment. Or to fix their problems. I don't have the ability to help my mom feel better about my divorce ... shouldn't she be trying to figure out how to lend me emotional support? Not that it would ever to occur to her. I see no reason to open up to her anyway. I can live without the manipulation and the unsolicited, clueless advice that lacks any grounding in experience or reality.

One time, they invited themselves along on my solo road trip (I had packed up a car full of stuff that they didn't want me to store at their place anymore), insisting that it "wasn't safe." I tried to talk them out of it but they walked all over me. 5 minutes in, they were fighting like a couple of spoiled brats. Two hours in and they were still going at it. The only way I could get them to stop was to threaten to abandon them at a bus station in Cleveland. (In the right situation, an ultimatum can work!)

Another one: my mother loves loves loves to finish my sentences for me. And she hates it when I point this out to her. It escalates. I finally figured out that I just need to let her finish, and then I take a few deep, calming breaths, then continue my thought, starting with: "well, what I was going to say was ...."

The short answer is that you need to come up with solutions that are unique to your situation that you are willing to follow through on. If it's important to you and important to your parents that they have a relationship with your children, use that common ground as motivation. Or even as a carrot.

This stuff is truly hard. But that's not a reason not to try. It's an experiment in behavior modification. You might have to try a few different things before you find something (or things) that brings about positive change. And then when you find something that works, it will likely need ongoing reinforcement. And I know that in my family we have a lot of 2 steps forward, 3 steps back experiences. But if the alternative is to do nothing and just accept things as they are, and feel hopeless about the situation, I would rather keep tilting at windmills. At least when I try to make changes I feel empowered.

[mommyatty]

I have found with my boundary-challenged MIL that the kids’ getting in trouble will change her behavior. So if she’s letting our kids jump on their beds, I walk in and tell them they know better and to knock it off. If DD says “But Grandma said it was ok!” I respond with “This isn’t Grandma’s house. You know the rules in our house, and you know Grandma can’t change the rules in our house.” Yes, it makes me the bad guy. But it has changed at least the worst of the bad bahaviors. Some, like not picking up toys, I’ve decided I won’t enforce all the time. But others (eating as a family at the table, limiting sugary snacks, respecting the furniture), those I will go “Hard-Ass Ninja Mommy” about.