We Should All Be Feminists - book club discussion

[ufcasey]

Welcome to the first book club discussion of 2018! Everyone is welcome to join in at anytime

This month's pick was We Should All Be Feminists by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

Just to help get you thinking, if you have a hard time figuring out what you want to say, there are some questions below that I found online. You definitely don't have to answer any of them!

Things to potentially consider:
1) The author recalls first hearing the word “feminist” in the same tone that someone might use to say, “You’re a supporter of terrorism” - How have you heard the word “feminist” used? Have you heard “feminist” used as a positive word or a negative one?
2) Prior to reading this book, did you identify as a feminist? Why or why not?
3) Did hearing Chimamanda’s definition of a feminist as “a person who believes in the
social, political, and economic equality of the sexes” change whether or not you
identify as a feminist? What would you add or edit in her definition?
4) Chimamanda says her brother is her favorite feminist. Who is your favorite
feminist?
5) Chimamanda had several stories from her past that are common among many
women living and working today. Did you relate to parts of her journey (for
example, her friend who said things used to be bad for women but aren’t anymore;
her experience at the parking lot where a worker thanked her male companion for
the tip she gave him; or her noticing that the higher she went in her profession, the
fewer women were working alongside her)? Do you have any stories of your own to share?
6) Chimamanda makes the point that culture does not make people, people make
culture. What’s one aspect of your culture that you’d like to change for the better?
7) How do you think gender/race/sexual orientation impacts feminists?
8) Adichie discusses how women feel they need to dress like men in certain situations in order to gain more respect. How did this make you feel when you read it? Do you think this is because of the definitions we assign to gender within our society and culture?

[CrazyLucky]

I was a little disappointed. I had heard the TED talk and thought the book would be using that as a base, but expounding. It really was just the TED talk with nothing or not much additional. It was a super quick and easy read though.
There are things in there we can all relate to. The waiter ignoring females... I don't think that's happened to me, but I've certainly had car salesmen ignore me. And then DH would say, "Oh, this will be her car, talk to her." As if that guy would get a sales. Point being, the author is correct that the males who witness this behavior need to call it out, because unfortunately, it won't be taken seriously if women call it out.
I think the point I took away from it the most was about raising the kids. Yes, I work hard to make sure DD and DS know that there is nothing boys can do that girls can't and vice versa. But am I doing a good enough job making sure DD doesn't cater to the "fragile male ego"? Or making sure DS is also a feminist?
And I really liked on p 41, the explanation of why we should call ourselves feminists and not human rights advocates.

I think feminist is generally used as a negative word. Not in all female circles, like this board, but in general, I do not think people are complimenting me if they call me a feminist. This doesn't bother me and I still proudly identify as one.
This might be too cliche, but I think Obama is my favorite feminist right now. He didn't necessarily talk it, but he walked it. Their marriage is truly one of equals. He hired women. He never gave the impression that raising his daughter's was Michelle's job, even though he had this side gig of running the country. I really like him.

[bex]

I liked this book but did not find it particularly earth shattering. It was disappointing for me because I had just finished Americanah by her, which I loved.

I definitely think of feminism as a negative word, and honestly, I think there may be some good reason to that. Classic White Feminism has not always been inclusive of WOC. But in terms of the general idea of feminism = supporting equal rights and opportunities for women, men and women should be treated the same, etc - then I think of it as a positive and wish it was more widely viewed as such. It was disappointing for me to hear Trump say he was not a feminist, even though we all kind of already knew that.

So from that POV I liked the simplicity of this book and the title - yes, we should all be feminists. Why not?

[abs]

Okay. I was really looking forward to reading this but was pretty underwhelmed. I mean, everything she said was spot on and I enjoyed her writing style but I didn't think anything was brand new information. I am glad others felt the same way...I really thought I must have missed something!!

I do like her definition of feminism much better than how it is usually interpreted.

[pinotgrig]

It wasnt earth shattering to many of us, but I thought it was a great intro on the topic to someone more novice who might be struggling with her central theme - that feminists aren’t angry, man-hating, dress-refusing, non-makeup wearing women.

I personally do much prefer something more along the lines of “Bad Feminist” where it’s like feminism 201 where the themes and issues are applied to broader subjects. But to get to 201, you’ve got to take 101 and accept that feminism isn’t a bad word and understand what it really means. On that count, I thought she hit the mark really well.

It was short, straight forward, and written in a conversational style that I found really accessible.

[pinotgrig]

I do self-identify as a feminist, though it’s taken me several years to become comfortable with it and not automatically feel defensive about it. I’ve come to understand that the negative baggage and preconceived notions around the label reflects more on those who hold them and not on me. In fact, I’ve appreciated seeing all the FB comments from people asking why women are marching (what rights don’t you have?) and from women posting the “I’m not a feminist” article - thanks for announcing your sexism where it’s so easily identifiable!

I do agree that feminism does need to make room for WOC and the lgbtq. They’re different sides of the same coin to me.

[nittanylioness]

I completely agree with pinotgrig that this book was like Feminism 101. For me that was useful as this definitely isn't a subject I've really ever spent a lot of time reading about. So while none of the points were earth shattering I thought it was all very well explained. It also pointed out some examples that I experience in my daily life which I had never considered through this particular lens.

It did make me feel lucky that, at least where I live (US), our culture is a little less anti-female than a lot of what she was describing in Africa, especially when it came to the tribal areas.

[krystee]

Jan 31, 2018 16:41:27 GMT -5 pinotgrig said:

It wasnt earth shattering to many of us, but I thought it was a great intro on the topic to someone more novice who might be struggling with her central theme - that feminists aren’t angry, man-hating, dress-refusing, non-makeup wearing women.

I personally do much prefer something more along the lines of “Bad Feminist” where it’s like feminism 201 where the themes and issues are applied to broader subjects. But to get to 201, you’ve got to take 101 and accept that feminism isn’t a bad word and understand what it really means. On that count, I thought she hit the mark really well.

It was short, straight forward, and written in a conversational style that I found really accessible.

This is where I am. Was it super illuminating to me? No. But if we could get this in the hands of people who think feminist is a dirty word, I do think it would be impactful. The problem is that it's probably mostly feminists who are reading it, so it becomes kind of an echo chamber.

I highlighted the same passages mentioned by @tooshort. I thought those were very powerful.

[mrspez07]

Not much of the book stayed with me more than 24 hours after reading it, other than the specific examples.
I was reading it one evening and DS1 (8) ask what it was and if he could read it. He then read it for the next few nights and finished it! Ultimately he was interested because it was so small and short, but we talked about it as well. I ask him if he thought things like the example he had just read happen today in America and he said no, and I gave him some of my personal examples. I think at his age, in his little elementary school world he doesn’t see girls getting excluded or not having the opportunities, but I hope he took something from it. It was a good reminder to me of keeping his experiences in perspective on any conversation. I have been bragging that he picked it up and read it ;-)

ETA: I think the examples from Africa were less impactful to my son specifically, but me as well, because it’s easier to dismiss them as “not happening here”, that would probably be the weekest point for using it as Feminism 101, those who already hold preconceived ideas would be less swayed by examples not relevant to them.

[minzy]

I feel like conservatives tend to use the term “feminist” as a slam (see Rush Limbaugh and the term “feminazi”), whereas liberals consider it a proud badge of honor. I think she builds a strong case for feminism even if one might not identify overtly as one. A lot of it seemed very common sense - be decent. It’s not that hard.

For my kids (two girls), I seek out books with strong, smart girl leads (we were just gifted the photo book Strong is the New Pretty: A Celebration of Girls Being Themselves by Kate T. Parker, which is great). I make it a point to refer to people in a gender neutral way, (i.e., I call our mail carrier a “mail person” rather than mailman), and probably somewhat annoyingly point out if anyone assumes a man (or woman) did something, that it could just as well have been someone of a different gender.

I haven’t read Americanah yet, but this was better than her book Purple Hibiscus, so I’m glad for that.

[rainbowchip]

I'm nodding along with what everyone else is saying and I really have nothing more to add.
mrspez07 that's a good idea having your 8 year old read it. I should see if my 8 year old wants to read it.

[MrsAxilla]

Jan 31, 2018 16:01:27 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

I enjoyed the book but I agree it wasn't earth shattering. She did give me a frame work by which I could call myself a feminist and not cringe but I still don't think I will use the word as a label for myself. Despite how I may define the word there are plenty of others that want feminism to be strictly or at least primarily for white women.

See, I was struck by how universal the issue is  When she was describing the negative images of feminism, it was the same descriptions that I heard growing up - hates all men, won’t wear makeup or dress feminine, etc.  Of course, I am a white woman, and I identified as a feminist long before I knew or understood intersectionality.  Chimamanda’s experience of feminism (as she far as she describes in her book) doesn’t have the same racial baggage.  I’d be interested in knowing how racial tensions and feminism play together in other parts of the world.  At at its core - its 101 level, if you will - feminism is simply the notion that women are people too.  We should all be feminists! (Lol).

I appreciate “basic” writings like this because they’re meant for everyone.  None of the concepts were new, but I didn’t know Nigerian women can’t go into certain places without a man.  They way she described her male friends walking into places with perfect female strangers gave me the impression the men knew it was bullshit, too.  Or when her “progressive” male friend had his ah-ha moment when HE was thanked for the tip that SHE pulled out and handed the valet.  That’s the type of culture that might change if enough men considered themselves feminists on a basic level.

It was also a good reminder that “toxic masculinity” is universal, too.  She talks about how men must pay for everything, even if they can’t afford it but the woman can.  Even though it’s really a competition between men to be most manly.  Imagine a world where a man’s identity isn’t tied to how well he can provide for his woman!

Reading the 101 material gave me a new perspective on the upper level discussions.  

[ufcasey]

I'm late to my own party but I agree that this was Feminism 101 and that was what made me like it so much. It wasn't a 500 page in depth discussion, it was just "these are some examples of the bullshit that people of the female gender only have to put up with, and that shit isn't fair, and feminists are people who recognize that unfairness and want to stop it". Simple? Yes. But effective I think. Though I also agree that pretty much only feminists are bothering to read this book probably, so maybe not impactful beyond maybe helping current feminists be able to persuade others more effectively.

I gave this book 5 stars because I think non-feminists need to read it and wanted to encourage that. I do wish the examples were more applicable to Americans and also included examples specific to WOC or LGBT women.

[rootbeerfloat]

I read this about a year ago, so the details are hazy. I gave it 5 stars and remember being surprised at how short it was.

I appreciated how straightforward it was, and I also liked hearing her experiences as a non-American.

[redmonkeystomper]

I'd like to join in on this board. I read the book and I think for me it was somewhat thought provoking. I grew up with a negative view of feminism. I found myself realizing that my own definition was polluted by that negativity. I like the premise that we should all be for equality across gender. I also started thinkibg about how I can influence my daughter to view feminism positively.

[aurora]

I'm super late to this discussion, but glad to see that I'm not the only one who was a bit surprised at the straightforwardness* of the book. At the same time, I appreciated how easy it was to understand Adichie's point.

I'm glad I read it. I had previously started Americanah and ended up putting it down without finishing because at the time I just really needed an escapist fantasy. This was a good reminder to pick it back up again.


*I'm not sure of the right word here. I'm trying to convey that feminism seems so utterly logical and uncontroversial as she describes it. It's not simplistic (too negative), and definitely not convoluted, but rather right on point.

[aurora]

Jan 31, 2018 16:09:31 GMT -5 @tooshort said:

...
"We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller.
We say to girls: You can have ambition, but not too much."
- I realized while reading this that I've heard this author in the Beyonce song. Its so very true. We teach girls to shrink, not boast, not be seen. This very thing was talked about in depth in Shonda Rhimes book, Year of Yes.
...

I also really appreciated this part. More recently, it reminds me of the flap over lower-sound Doritos for women who don't want to make ourselves stand out.

[aurora]

Feb 2, 2018 18:07:28 GMT -5 redmonkeystomper said:

I'd like to join in on this board. I read the book and I think for me it was somewhat thought provoking. I grew up with a negative view of feminism. I found myself realizing that my own definition was polluted by that negativity. I like the premise that we should all be for equality across gender. I also started thinkibg about how I can influence my daughter to view feminism positively.

Welcome! We are always happy to have new board members.

[pinotgrig]

Feb 9, 2018 15:44:56 GMT -5 aurora said:

I'm super late to this discussion, but glad to see that I'm not the only one who was a bit surprised at the straightforwardness* of the book. At the same time, I appreciated how easy it was to understand Adichie's point.

I'm glad I read it. I had previously started Americanah and ended up putting it down without finishing because at the time I just really needed an escapist fantasy. This was a good reminder to pick it back up again.


*I'm not sure of the right word here. I'm trying to convey that feminism seems so utterly logical and uncontroversial as she describes it. It's not simplistic (too negative), and definitely not convoluted, but rather right on point.

I totally get what you’re saying here - it was really frank and matter of fact. She was unapologetic about it and acted like of course, women are equal to men. I feel like the default has turned into “should be” equal vs “are” equal. The latter starts from a defensive standpoint and makes it feel like something has to be changed. Her approach, while calling for change, didn’t put the core issue up for debate.