School Safety

[2chatter]

Are juuls a rising issue in your schools? Our middle school just prohibited bathroom usage during class it’s so bad. Thankfully DD has the 504 and they are discussing it with her as I type this.

Between that and what occurred in Florida yesterday...I am just a little on edge. DH is emailing the kids’ schools to ask about fire drill protocol. They had lock in and lock out drills Tuesday. Again, the oldest shared things that scare me.

Add in people driving like lunatics at crosswalks and in school zones (we have fought to get police out to ticket three times this school year). It wasn’t like this the previous four years so I am not sure what changed.

What are your biggest school safety concerns?

[mommyatty]

Everything scares me right now. People backing up without looking in the parking lot. Teens driving onto the school campus distracted. (Luckily their parking lot is almost a quarter mile away on the other end of campus and they have their own entrance.) School shootings. Our school is well set to protect against an outside threat. We have a guard house and gates during school hours to keep kidnappers out. (We have some very wealthy kids, so this isn’t overkill. One girl occasionally is dropped off st school in a helicopter. You can’t make this shit up.) Our school is not, however, at all equipped to deal with a threat from inside. I have no idea what they would do in the case of a school shooter.

And can I say that people can shove their “thoughts and prayers” and “prayers and condolences” up their asses? We need an actual change to protect kids.

[supertrooper1]

I think our school security is pretty good. But talking with H last night, he says parents are constantly complaining that security (signing into the office) is too much. SMH.

[covergirl82]

DS was in a different school than now when he was in young 5's (they had young 5's students for the whole district at one school that year) and it was the first classroom in the school, main hallway, past the office. That was the year that the Sandy Hook shooting happened. I was terrified the rest of the year. Our district has had an outside security consultant (run by an ex-Secret Service guy) review everything for weaknesses and make suggestions for change. We have vestibules now and everyone has to check in at the office, but when school starts and dismisses are still points of vulnerability (doors unlocked, parents coming in/out, etc.). We also have multiple evening info sessions a year about student safety, mental health, bullying, etc., that are open to all students and parents in the district. The town I live in has a municipal police and we have a state police post. We also have a lot of county sheriffs driving around. (I live in a suburban town I would consider safe.)

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but I don't feel that gun control is going to solve this problem. This is a spiritual problem. Taking guns away will not stop evil people from being evil/doing evil things.

[xctsclrx]

mommyatty, what kind of changes would you recommend?



My personal opinion: If a person wants to hurt people they will figure out a way so I am not someone who jumps on gun laws and such. I see that as treating a symptom and not the cause. Laws are written in such a way that nothing can be done for someone until they do something. once they have done though it is too late. I think parents and educators need to be aware of the warning signs. We have a ton of programs and information on drugs and alcohol. Do parents get the same type of info on mental health and depression? I just don't know what the answer is to solve the problem. I am not sure that I can even identify the problem. I do think it is rooted in mental health.

[2chatter]

One thing that bugs me is the focus on adults entering school buildings. Have I missed where grown ups have shot up schools? It’s like anyone under 20 isn’t possibly armed. It’s kids bringing guns. A friend had a fourth grader bring a loaded gun to school when she taught. It wasn’t like a grown up wasn’t stopped or something.

I get that security measures like sign ins are nice but they don’t really make me feel any better. Especially as in our office there are three possible sign in methods at this point - it would be easy to be subversive. They keep adding methods/functions and that’s so not even an issue on my radar.

[freezorburn]

What's a juul?

I know that our district has procedures in place for active shooter situations, since I've heard on the news (maybe once or twice in the past decade) of lockdowns in response to incidents happening in proximity to schools. But yeah, if students are specifically targeted I'm not sure how effective any safety procedures might be.

We had a school bus strike this last month, and I teamed up with two other families to shuttle our kids to after-school care. We were required to let the office know about our arrangement, but it seemed like things were pretty lax at pickup. There was one day when I was supposed to do pickup, but we somehow got our wires crossed with one of the moms, and the girl got picked up by her aunt instead. And I think she went out through a different entrance than the one we agreed on. The office didn't know about it and we spent half an hour trying to find the girl and call her mom. Finally we had to get going and everything turned out ok, but, um, yeah.

[supertrooper1]

I agree with the mental health issue. It's amazing in my 13 years at my job how my range/firearms training has changed over the years from focusing on use of force to now a lot of time spent on mental health issues. My local use of force branch stays ahead of the curve, but unfortunately it's not agency wide, nor focused on at a lot of local police departments like it should be.

[phdmomma]

I worry about DD whose daycare is on my college campus. Her daycare itself if locked down pretty well (3 ID swipes to pick up or drop off), but they go on adventures on campus, and I worry about a gunman there or shooting into their locked outside play area. Speaking of my campus, we had mandatory faculty and staff shooter training, including how to disarm attackers....what a world we live in.

For DS at the public school, security isn't quite as good. I worry, you are supposed to sign in at the office, but there isn't anything to stop you. I have no idea what their protocol would be.

[mellym]

Feb 15, 2018 10:59:12 GMT -5 covergirl82 said:

Taking guns away will not stop evil people from being evil/doing evil things.

This. If it's not a school, it's another venue like a concert or sporting event. I agree I have terrifying thoughts of how to keep our children safe but I also believe that we can't live our lives in fear. I think many of our current school and law enforcement issues have to do with mental health. I went on a ride along in our city and the officers all said that most of their calls are for mental health but they don't have the resources or training to deal with them. I also talked to my SIL who is a second grade teacher about this and they have teachers afraid of elementary school students. They have officers on site and still have the police called to the school every week for a mental health problem. There isn't much more they can do as a teacher to help these kids and they keep coming to class. How do they protect the other students when they have 7 year olds hitting teachers and throwing chairs on a daily basis?

[twinmomma]

I was thinking about all this all morning. I honestly don't know what the protocols are exactly for active shooters, and it kind of freaks me out. But at the same time, I know they do drills, I know the principal has police scanners and radios in his office, and I'm fully confident that they're taking steps to protect the kids. And I kind of feel better not knowing the specifics, because if they advertise it, couldn't someone just plan around it?

I just hate living in a world where I worry about my kids, my husband, my mom, and my sister all making it home safely from their jobs. They teach kids, FFS. What kind of world is this?

I do believe that changes need to happen. Changes need to happen with gun control, with our mental health system, and with our culture as a whole. We live in a country that is actively defunding science and education and glamorizes guns and "liberty." Whatever that means. It makes me sick.

[polecat8]

We live in a pretty suburban area with a smaller school district (~1000 kids total). To get in to the elementary school, you have to be buzzed in to a vestibule and then the main office. If you are attending a school event, such as the holiday show, everyone has to sign in and out. The principal wants to know who is in his building at all times.
I happened to be in the school volunteering with my DD's class when she was in kindergarten when they practiced their active threat drill. The students had to get in a classroom. Doors were locked and lights turned off. The teachers explained that the kids had to be quiet and not answer the door until they were told it was ok. The principal and his staff went to each door and pounded on them to make sure the kids were quiet. I was in the classroom and it was amazing how the teacher was able to explain what was going on. I was really creeped out by the whole thing. I can't believe this is what has to happen these days.

In the past few weeks, there were two threats made to our schools (one at the elementary and one at the high school). A school bus driver heard an elementary kid make a threat of violence against other kids. The driver immediately called the bus garage, which called the school and police.
At the high school, a student made a threat on snapchat, which was reported to the police.
I'm glad that the district didn't take any chances and followed up on these threats immediately. I'm also grateful that someone heard something and reported it to authorities immediately.

I don't know what is the right way to solve this problem. There's obviously some kind of mental illness that is triggering some of these events, but I wonder if there is an increase in illness or we are such a connected society that we hear about more of them. Guns should not be in the hands of those with mental illness, but how do you know who is mentally ill? Those with issues tend to keep to themselves, so how do you find them?

[186momx]

Last year DD's school bricked off the open breezeways and put in heavy duty metal doors. Those doors are now locked all day and get unlocked when school lets out and when students area allowed into the building. We sign into the office if we are visiting or volunteering but pick up/drops off are free for all.

The do full on safety runs twice a year with fire drills monthly. The school is really close to a number of other schools so they are on modified lockdown more often than not. So middle school is basically jumping through a couple back yards so if the middle school is on lock down then we end up on modified lockdown just in case. I do not know how our school is equipped to handle a student threat? Something to ask at PTO next week, I think.

I know all the high schools in our area have city police officers assigned to each school.

I agree with mellym, that teachers have it rough. A few of my teacher clients retired early as they were so afraid to go to work due to the violent nature of a couple students. The one teacher I'm thinking about said she had to evacuate her classroom 3 times in one week as the same student proceeded to destroy her classroom and all his classmates things. Mental illness is a huge problem and it is so hard to treat.

[rere]

Just left one my schools. I always survey any new classroom, gym, cafeteria to check were the hiding places are, escape routes.

I was leaving a meeting yesterday when I heard this news. The meeting was about kids who are in the justice system. Schools do not have the resources for most of these kids, and don't have a lot of options when a child is clearly out of control. Parents are usually absent or overwhelmed themselves, mental health is overloaded and it takes forever to get an appointment, alternative schools are full, courts are backlogged. I was frustrated already when I left because caseworkers don't have the teeth to enforce consequences. I said upon leaving, we've got to hold kids accountable before they turn 18, or we loose our chance to try to get them on some kind of track.

[callmekd]

yes we need to focus more on mental health, but we also need to focus more on gun regulation. who actually needs a semi-automatic weapon?

[rere]

Feb 15, 2018 12:54:32 GMT -5 callmekd said:

yes we need to focus more on mental health, but we also need to focus more on gun regulation. who actually needs a semi-automatic weapon?

I argued with Dh about this. His thing was any regulation on the table will only buy you 10 seconds in a rampage. I told him in 10 seconds I can shut and lock a classroom, get myself and students around a corner. Get in a closet. 10 seconds mean a lot.

[xctsclrx]

Feb 15, 2018 12:54:32 GMT -5 callmekd said:

yes we need to focus more on mental health, but we also need to focus more on gun regulation. who actually needs a semi-automatic weapon?

Actually I am going to delete my comment. It isn't something I want invest time in right now and I try to stay out of politics online. 

[mommyatty]

The mental health argument is complete bunk. You regulate the shit out of the types of arms people can buy, own and possess and this problem goes away. Like it has on every single country that has done it. If you need a case study, look at Australia, where they had one mass shooting, passed regulations that allowed hunters to keep hunting but took away guns that are meant to kill people, and magically, presto chango, there hasn’t been another mass shooting

Our country has no more and no less mental illness than any other country in the developed world. But we are the only one that has had 17 mass shootings in the past 7 weeks. Seriously. Since 2018 began, there have been 17 mass shootings. MASS shootings. The supposedly least common type of gun crime.

Oh. And in every single one so far this year, the guns were obtained legally, so don’t float the bullshit NRA line that the bad people get guns anyway. Yeah, some will. But if there are just fewer assault rifles, they will be harder to come by, whether legally or illegally. And it’s a whole lot easier to stop a dude rampaging with a baseball bat or a knife than an assault rifle. Heck, it’s easier to stop a guy with a pistol or a hunting rifle than one with an assault rifle.

[2chatter]

I definitely felt way safer living in Australia. And a student tried to kill me there. Were it here, they would have bought a gun and I wouldn’t be posting this right now. For real. It’s part of why I sold out and went corporate.

I have to dig in to a boy DD has twice been assigned to mentor. He has made vague threats that make her uncomfortable like “leave me alone or you won’t like what happens” kind of stuff. She said he doesn’t have friends. She asked me if she could skip tutoring this week (she’s the tutor and was paired with him last time) to avoid him. I’m hoping to have a convo tonight but don’t even know what to ask. Then what do I do with what she tells me?

I think answers to that are a big part of stemming the tide. But I’m at a loss and this is front and center for me.

[xctsclrx]

2chatter, Listen to her. She is uncomfortable. She feels unsafe. School needs to know. She should not be forced to work with someone who is threatening her. Vague or not.


Google army nurse that was set on fire. I want to say it was in Kansas and happened in 2016. I don't know her personally, but I have two mutual Facebook friends with her. She told her administration that she felt unsafe. He gave off a vibe. Never wanted to be left alone with him. They didn't listen.

[twinmomma]

2chatter, Listen to her concerns and elevate them to the right people. Make them hear you.
I was actively stalked in high school. I remember going to the guidance counselor and expressing my concerns. I did not feel safe. My friends backed me up. They told me he was socially awkward and to just let him be. They didn't take me seriously. I'm really, really lucky it never escalated further.

[phdmomma]

2chatter, I will echo elevating her concerns to the right people. Can you have her paired with someone else to tutor?

[waverly]

2chatter, I would let her skip tutoring and elevate the concerns to the school or take her out of the tutoring altogether.

Mine are younger, so I don't have a ton of security concerns except for the school shooting scenarios. Perhaps maybe being approached by a stranger while waiting for the bus type thing, but they don't walk to school at their age and distance from school.

There are mentally and spiritually ill people in every country and every culture. But in every country they don't have access to high capacity weaponry, so the casualties are lower and lesser. A mentally ill person cannot go on a shooting rampage if they don't have a gun. That is where the intersection lies. There are more than one problem going on here, and it's OK to address both problems. The issue is when we say its a mental health issue but don't address it, and we all know we aren't addressing the access to guns issue or else we wouldn't be having this conversation and the same conversations over and over again because we wouldn't be having the mass shootings over and over again.

[2chatter]

She also got paired with him on a project in a class and he ignores her like she isn’t there or is hostile to her. So she did the whole project (fine) but that teacher needs to do something. She escalated after school and the teacher praised her as being one of the kids who can help kids who struggle. I am thinking this is not that. Because that DD is fine with and I am fine with but ... not this.

[xctsclrx]

2chatter , At this point talk to your DD. Has she used the phrase "he threatened me" "I feel unsafe"? If not I would let her escalated one more time to the school admin. (Just to teach her how to advocate for herself) If they continue to blow her off, then you step in and raise hell.

Also, instead of the teacher, maybe approach the counselor. That way she is not "tattling" and maybe he can get some help.

I would be worried that they have identified your daughter as someone who is easy to get along with and helpful kid. Which is great until she gets stuck with the problem children that no one wants to deal with. Not fair to her at all.

In real life you have HR. In school though you are just expected to deal with it.

If any of my children came to me and told me they felt unsafe with a particular person (I have boys) and the school ignored that feeling, because the other kids is awkward I would burn it down. (not literally)


ETA: I had to go to the counselor when I was being sexually harassed in middle school. Teacher told me that wasn't her problem to deal with. 

[2chatter]

I’m glad I am not alone in my sentiments.

Also - two kids with guns arrested in our area today. I literally drove past one of the schools today. What is wrong with this world??

[mommyatty]

If she is uncomfortable enough to want to change her routine or avoid activities she otherwise enjoys, this kid is really creeping her out. I would call and tell the counselor with an emphasis that I expect that my kid won’t be forced to pair, partner, mentor, talk to, work with, or help this kid any more.

I was the kid who always got paired with the awkward kids because I was kind and friendly and smart. I started to hate that after a while. It’s more work if you’re the kid who has to work with the kids who are angry or slow or otherwise difficult. My dad finally went to the school when I was in 6th grade and told them unless they wanted to start paying me a salary, they were to stop treating me like a teacher’s aide. I appreciated it because as a girl I was conditioned to be nice and not buck authority. But authority needed to be bucked. Plus there were creepy boys who honestly scared me. I was too embarrassed to say “I’m scared to sit and work with this boy, in my class, 5 feet away from my teacher.” But I was.

[2chatter]

So DD came up to update me - you guys, I love this kid. She talked to the teacher today after our talk last night and she won’t be paired with him again. What she didn’t tell me last night is he is already on behavior watch and meets with the counselor. She told the teacher she knows that, but wanted to point out that from her perspective it’s not working.

[akafred]

I posted something but didn't realize I was two hours late. Stupid work!

[akafred]

In general I am not 100% convinced we're even asking the right questions, but everything is so politicized and divisive that no one can get very far when they try.

I think that's enough of a thought for now. I am so sad for all the families involved.