A interesting, in-depth discussion of all the "skeptics" lately in media that dont' think we will ever find a smoking gun or hard evidence of collusion.
But none of these are the key thing. That is this: For the second half of 2016 Donald Trump himself and his campaign knew that Russia was engaged in a wide ranging effort to subvert the 2016 campaign and to work to get him elected. Yet despite this knowledge he and his campaign continued to approve numerous contacts with Russian government officials, clandestine meetings, receive offers of assistance. He also continued to push a decidedly Russia friendly policy agenda, even to the point of threatening to short-circuit or abandon the NATO alliance – probably Russia’s principal foreign policy goal not only today but decades back into the Cold War. They continued to authorize all of this, continued to feel out the possible dimensions of the relationship and, critically, made no effort to contact the FBI or other relevant federal agencies about a plot they knew these agencies were tracking and trying to combat.
YES!
Especially this:
But the biggest problem with this skeptics argument is this idea that if that explicit and formal agreement doesn’t exist – the “smoking gun” as skeptic Blake Hounshell puts it – that there’s “nothing there.” This strikes me as entirely wrong, not only as a legal matter but far more as a civic matter. This is for many reasons but the principal one is that corrupt transactions are often tacit. You’re helping me. I’m helping you. It’s a good thing for both sides. No need to complicate it.
A week or two on Rachel Maddow, she pointed out all the things that Russia has already received. Trump isn't retaliating against them for meddling. He's letting their people come to the US all the time, even ones that have been individually sanctioned and are prohibited by law from entering the country. He's having private meetings with them. He's ignoring laws that require him to sanctions Russia. He's supporting them on social media, attacking this country instead of them, and helping to magnify their disinformation campaign, etc. This is what the Russians wanted! They are already being paid back! Sure they want to export their oil, but there should be no doubt that we are watching Trump pay back his debt, even if there was never a formal written agreement.
A New York congressman this week proposed a bill to allow the federal government to revoke the citizenship of naturalized U.S. citizens within ten years if they are involved in gang activity.
The bill, “Protecting our Communities from Gang Violence Act of 2018,” would strip citizenship from people affiliated with a criminal gang either ten years before or within ten years of becoming a U.S. citizen, the Washington Examiner reported. The proposal would bar immigrants who do not “exhibit good moral character” because of gang membership, association, affiliation, or provision of material support from becoming citizens. According to the proposal, “good moral character” is based on “relevant information or evidence, including classified, law enforcement sensitive, or national security information and shall be binding upon any court regardless of the applicable standard of review.’’
Former Donald Trump political adviser Sam Nunberg will be interviewed by the special counsel investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election on Thursday, a person familiar with the matter said.
Nunberg will meet with a member of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team in Washington, said the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity. It’s not clear what Mueller wants to speak with him about. Mueller’s office has informed him that he’s not a target of the probe and won’t be prosecuted unless he’s found to have lied to investigators, the person said.
Nunberg was on Trump’s payroll from mid-2011 to August 2015. A possible line of questioning could regard Trump’s activities in Moscow during the 2013 Miss Universe pageant that the president once owned.
Republican bill seeks to revoke citizenship of immigrants who don’t ‘exhibit good moral character’
Cool- so long as we can revoke others citizenship based on good moral character & we're starting with those who engage in treason, obstruct justice, and break campaign finance laws.
A New York congressman this week proposed a bill to allow the federal government to revoke the citizenship of naturalized U.S. citizens within ten years if they are involved in gang activity.
The bill, “Protecting our Communities from Gang Violence Act of 2018,” would strip citizenship from people affiliated with a criminal gang either ten years before or within ten years of becoming a U.S. citizen, the Washington Examiner reported. The proposal would bar immigrants who do not “exhibit good moral character” because of gang membership, association, affiliation, or provision of material support from becoming citizens. According to the proposal, “good moral character” is based on “relevant information or evidence, including classified, law enforcement sensitive, or national security information and shall be binding upon any court regardless of the applicable standard of review.’’
The fuck you say?!!! (as in, the congressman, not you, mbcdefg)
Sure, gang affiliation can be a negative impact for a naturalization application. I can accept that. I think it should be considered as part of the whole application, and not neccesarily an automatic denial, though.
But, to _revoke_ nationality of those who have become citizens? Nope. No. No way. Holy shit. The Oath of Naturalization _revokes_ prior nationalities, so this makes them nation-less people. Fuck that shit. A citizen is a citizen, and should be treated as a citizen.
I need the "The fuck you say" gif. Then I need Mueller to nail this asshole to the wall.
I'm not here. I know we are a group of Bernie haters, but I do not want Bernie to go down with the Russia investigation. I believe he was complacent and needs to know that and I WANT HIM TO ACKNOWLEDGE HIS AND HIS FOLLOWERS PART in this - if they don't learn from it, they'll fall for it again in 2020.
Bernie is not my cup-of-tea (actually he makes my blood boil b/c he is so old-dude savoir), but he also has some political capital and a huge following that need to see that he is not a God and instead is human and makes mistakes that can hurt the US. He also is a champion of the uninsured, environment, and has moved the Dem platform to the left on some issues, so he needs to take some damn ownership in his part of this and realize that his revolution is weak without coalition and compromise (and that it's, so far, not producing the next line of leaders so much).
I can't see him taking any responsibility. He just blamed HRC, ffs. I don't disagree with your point but since he won't admit it on his own, I want some accountability. I realize this may not be at all rational because I hate him and the bros so much.
Post by jeaniebueller on Feb 21, 2018 15:22:28 GMT -5
Here is the actual audio of the Bernie clip in case you want to hear it. basically he says that they didn't know that russians were meddling but knew that in april and May strange things were happening. and by the time they might have known he was busy campaigning for Hillary and that her campaign should have brought it up. And didn't really have an answer when the journalist pointed out that his rabid supporters wouldn't have believed the clinton campaign anyway. Gotta hand it to VPR, the reporter did not let things slide.
Post by 5kcandlesinthewind on Feb 21, 2018 15:31:56 GMT -5
Bernie could be dragged out in handcuffs yelling "you're damn right I'm guilty of treason!" and (some of) the Bros would still be arguing about how Crooked Hillary set him up.
This - I try so hard no to bash Bernie because... why, again?!
4. Why are you even asking this question, Bernie? Are you constitutionally incapable of taking responsibility for anything, ever? Can you maybe not just point to the nearest woman and blame her for your own catastrophic failure?
And let us be clear that this was indeed a catastrophic failure on your part, although I strongly suspect it was not just a catastrophic failure to know what the fuck was going on in your own campaign, as people far more gracious than I will allow. I suspect instead that it was a catastrophic failure resulting from and reflective of your massive entitlement, your voracious ego, and your spectacular indifference to ethical campaigning — represented by, among many other things, the promise not to attack Hillary Clinton's character only to engage in a toxic, scorched-earth campaign, of which the central attack was inherently misogynist.
Trump has some live press conference with the students. I can’t bring myself to click on the FB post from NBC.
I've only seen a couple. There was a mother from Sandy Hook that was pretty powerful. She spoke directly to him saying that he could do something. The student that talked prior to her was an emotional wreck, but he made some excellent points. The family that spoke before him who had a child killed at Parkland, were true Trump supporters.
The boy who's texts with his little brother went viral did. He brought up Australia. He and the Sandy Hook mom were about the only ones. The MAGA dad who lost his daughter was on the right track, then said something to the effect of "it's not about the guns"
This article is broader than a today discussion, but it answered a lot of questions I had about whoTF Paul Manafort really is, and why he would not just take the campaign manager job (unpaid!), but really hustle to get it.
*Shout out to CEP for linking the Atlantic deal a while ago.
Wow. That article was enlightening. I hadn't realized the role that Manafort played in US politics prior to all of the Ukraine stuff. Some random thoughts: 1) The stories of Manafort, Black, and Kelly towards the beginning of the article reminded me a little of the article recently posted here about the young men leading politics in Alaska - slowly turning elections by having the right influence. Especially how Manafort's firm was a one stop shop for all things lobbying, and those young men in Alaska were doing the same thing with campaigns. 2) Some of the people who he propped up over the years are worse than I knew. Leaders who likely committed war crimes and rigged elections. He clearly has no moral compass. 3) How is Manafort not already in jail? I guess he is slippery enough to find all of the loopholes, but vast majorities of the things he was part of have to be illegal. And no one is denying he did them. The end of the article talks about how even his friends won't be character witnesses for him because they all think it's so likely that he's guilty. I hope Mueller has ALL the proof to bring him down.
Here is the actual audio of the Bernie clip in case you want to hear it. basically he says that they didn't know that russians were meddling but knew that in april and May strange things were happening. and by the time they might have known he was busy campaigning for Hillary and that her campaign should have brought it up. And didn't really have an answer when the journalist pointed out that his rabid supporters wouldn't have believed the clinton campaign anyway. Gotta hand it to VPR, the reporter did not let things slide.
Thanks for sharing this link! Very illuminating. From the interview, it seems that Sanders is still refusing to acknowledge that he was the beneficiary of the Russian disinformation campaign, stating that Russian bots were not promoting his campaign. He also continues to make misleading statements about the timeline when he suggests that this occurred "late" in the primary and actually once he had dropped out. In the indictment, it states that the Russians began their push right after the first primary contest had been completed--the Russians said that Trump and Sanders were their candidates to push.
I also noticed this interview of Jill Stein in which she sounds like a lunatic when questioned about Russia by Alex Witt: www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQOQ-yNYc0
This - I try so hard no to bash Bernie because... why, again?!
4. Why are you even asking this question, Bernie? Are you constitutionally incapable of taking responsibility for anything, ever? Can you maybe not just point to the nearest woman and blame her for your own catastrophic failure?
And let us be clear that this was indeed a catastrophic failure on your part, although I strongly suspect it was not just a catastrophic failure to know what the fuck was going on in your own campaign, as people far more gracious than I will allow. I suspect instead that it was a catastrophic failure resulting from and reflective of your massive entitlement, your voracious ego, and your spectacular indifference to ethical campaigning — represented by, among many other things, the promise not to attack Hillary Clinton's character only to engage in a toxic, scorched-earth campaign, of which the central attack was inherently misogynist.
seriously. And the point that really stuck with me, perhaps because I've newly discovered my Tad Devine hate, but also because it is an excellent point that really highlights just how corrupt the Sanders campaign was:
Further, even though he's scrubbed it from his résumé, your chief strategist Tad Devine spent years working for pro-Putin Ukrainian politician Viktor Yanukovych. Surely a seasoned political operative who spent so much time in Ukraine, which Putin uses as his own personal test lab, would be familiar with the Kremlin's strategies. It would be extraordinary if such a person did not recognize what was happening; did not see the proliferation of anti-Clinton disinformation on social media, especially as reports began to emerge about Russian interference, and did not even suspect that Russia was interfering on behalf of the Sanders campaign.
Why didn't you and your team do something about Russian bots promoting your campaign, Bernie?
I'm listening because I can't look at Betsy DeVos's face. She has a stupid grin-like face on.
Now there's a parent speaking that wants the custodians to be undercover policemen.
So, were most of these people hand picked because they go along with the right wing agenda?
I missed the story, but DH read that yes - these were hand-picked invitees and the more vocal students received an unvitation to the meeting late last night.
This - I try so hard no to bash Bernie because... why, again?!
seriously. And the point that really stuck with me, perhaps because I've newly discovered my Tad Devine hate, but also because it is an excellent point that really highlights just how corrupt the Sanders campaign was:
Further, even though he's scrubbed it from his résumé, your chief strategist Tad Devine spent years working for pro-Putin Ukrainian politician Viktor Yanukovych. Surely a seasoned political operative who spent so much time in Ukraine, which Putin uses as his own personal test lab, would be familiar with the Kremlin's strategies. It would be extraordinary if such a person did not recognize what was happening; did not see the proliferation of anti-Clinton disinformation on social media, especially as reports began to emerge about Russian interference, and did not even suspect that Russia was interfering on behalf of the Sanders campaign.
Why didn't you and your team do something about Russian bots promoting your campaign, Bernie?
I'm embarrassed that I attributed so much of my dislike of Bernie during the 2016 campaign to Tad... that guy deserved all of my anger, but Bernie deserved more than I gave him. I think it was because so many white liberal men loved Bernie and I couldn't burn that bridge IRL b/c I knew eventually they would have to vote for Hillary for her to win. Holding in that frustration didn't work for any of us - we still got #45 and his twitter tirades.
By the way, did we know that Tad Devine worked with Paul Manafort on that Ukrainian Putin puppet's presidential campaign? I saw that mentioned on Twitter this morning.
So there's that.
I've only been saying this for forever. Bernie is dirty.