Do you discourage friendships?

[mae0111]

If so, how??

DD1 has been friends with a girl since the 1st day of K (2nd grade now).  For the past year, the girl and her family have been staying with her grandparents 2 doors down from us during a home remodel.  They'll move home (about 1.5 miles away), in 4-5 months.  DD1 LOVES her.  The kid is... not nice.  She's mean, and she lies.  About EVERYTHING.  And the lies are hurtful.  

Here's an example:  DD1 was playing outside with a friend, and the girl came over (girl only comes over when DD1 is having a play date.  Will not come out, answer the door, or knock on our door otherwise).  She had new earrings - DD1 said, "Oh wow!  You got your ears pierced!  I love them!  When??"  Girl told her that she went earlier that week for her birthday, and then she had a big party with all her friends.  She named off the people she invited.  

So... either she is lying (which, for many reasons, I believe to be the most likely scenario), or she excluded DD1, after DD1 has included her in EVERYTHING.  There is some crap like this that happens almost every time they interact.  DD1 gets hurt... but also concerning to me is the idea that DD1 will think that this is OK, and will start acting this way toward other kids.

I'm trying to get her to see that this girl is not her friend.  But I'm trying to be gentle about it.  Her mom is a queen bee, head of the clique, and I'm afraid that if we do this the wrong way, DD1 will become a pariah.  I already am in 2nd grade mom circles, and I'm totally OK with it... I just don't want DD1 to feel that. 

So... any advice???  I'd appreciate it. 

[k3am]

I wouldn't discourage the friendship, but I would be talking a lot about what a good friend is like. What we should do or say if someone says something hurtful. Standing up for themselves, etc. You preach it long enough, eventually your kid will understand and believe it. As parents, we do this all the time with our kids on basic things, but not so much on emotional stuff like friendships.

I was really proud of DD the day her teacher pulled me aside to let me know that one of the girls she has a hate/love relationship with from another class - her teacher didn't know the circumstances, but apparently DD looked her right in the eye and said "G, I want to be your friend, but you hurt my feelings and I need some space. Let's try again tomorrow."

This is... basically word for word the conversation I've had with DD every time she comes home complaining about a friend hurting her feelings.

[waverly]

I haven't actively had to discourage a friendship yet. I did have a flaky mom that I decided it wouldn't work to do playdates with. I would have liked to because DD loves her daughter, but it wasn't really feasible. I knew flaky mom would flake and hurt DD's feelings. After I decided not to contact her again, I never heard from her either, so I guess it was mutual. They are in different classes, so the friendship fizzled out because they never saw each other.

Can you wait it out until the move and then at least they won't be next door neighbors? Then you could back off the playdates and bit and encourage other friends.  It would appear to be less of a discouragement and more of a natural thing.  

I am not sure if I would go as far as to say you can't be friends with this person.  But I would talk about good friends and guide them a bit in that process. 

[twinmomma]

We have a friendship that we've let fizzle out, rather than actively trying to end it. The kid is majorly spoiled, and her bad behavior and tantrums were then making my kids act up when we'd get together. They'd see this girl flip out and tantrum and then get her way and figure they could give it a shot too. I just kind of stopped initiating play dates. Now we get together once every few months, mainly because I feel guilty when my kids ask if they can play with her.

[mommyatty]

I’m blunt with DD. She has one friend, who was her BFF, and we asked that they be split for kindergarten. She has a lot of issues. And a lot of behavior problems that would culminate in her hurting DD’s feeling or (more commonly) trying to ensure DD couldn’t ever play with anyone else. We told DD we didn’t like how her friend treated her and other kids, and that we appreciated that she tried to be a good role model for this girl, but if we ever saw her starting to act like her friend, we would tell her teacher to split them up during class. Also, we regularly asked if we needed to step in when we heard stuff like “Muffy told Audrey she would hit her if she played with me today at recess, so Audrey said she had to play with Misty instead of me.” DD generally handled things well on her own, but we were glad when our request to put DD in a different class from this girl was honored. They’ve mostly grown apart now, though we do things as a group with this girl, her mom, and some other mother-daughter pairs. I’m good with them playing when I can observe and re-coach DD later.

Unfortunately, next year at lunch they can sit with anyone from any class, so I’m concerned this girl (who isn’t well-liked because she’s the worst combination of mean, whiny, and defiant you can imagine) will glom back on to DD. Sigh. It never ends.

[2chatter]

I do. The boys next door are pretty off and that could be ok, but their mom is delusional and one of those women who talks about their “soft hearts” and “kind, loving spirits”. They have discussed wanting to kill and torture animals, told DS about Bloody Mary, asked DS if he ever has nightmares then used what he told them to make up an intricate story to make him afraid and later told DS they did it to see if they could make his nightmares worse, they have pinned him down and hit him, talked about wanting to get their Dad’s real guns - I could go on. Both our sitter and DD asked me if they are ok to tell them DS cannot play (and they try almost daily) because they are relentlessly mean.

Also, their parents bought them extra wide bikes so they “don’t have to stick to the sidewalk”. DH saw this for the first time this weekend. He asked them to ride only on the sidewalk. The second time he went out and yelled “off the grass please!” And reported they cried.

[mae0111]

Thank you. I find I'm so challenged with this. DD1 seems to struggle a bit socially. I'm trying to coach her, but she doesn't quite understand when kids are being mean, or are just uninterested in a friendship with her. From what I've observed, this kid is both mean and uninterested in a friendship, and DD1 is in hot pursuit.

We had a long talk last night about what friends do and how friends act. DD1 thought we were telling her she was doing something wrong. We were quick to encourage her, told her she's not wrong... but does she think friends do things to hurt other friends? She made up a party (we think), to hurt her feelings. But she's such a good liar that I honestly have no idea what's true and what isn't. DD1 tends to exaggerate when people are "mean" to her, but I've witnessed this kid being downright nasty. Nothing to the extent of what 2chatter has described, but definitely mean girl stuff. Teen years will be really difficult with her.

All the moms LOOOOOVE her mom, and they seem to love the girl. I've known her mom for a long time - close to 30 years - and I've always been polite while giving her a wide berth. Very clique-y. It's tough.

[k3am]

2chatter...yikes. That isn't discouraging a friendship, that's keeping your kid safe.

[k3am]

mae0111 , when it comes to mean girl type stuff (vs. cruelty and risk of psychological/physical harm like 2chatter is dealing with), I figure... my kid is going to know mean girls. At every age in her life. She will never not have to deal with a mean girl. She needs the opportunity to try to address this type of stuff on their own (with guidance) 

Personal preference, I would rather let her start figuring out how to work on it now. I would rather her cry and come to me and tell me what's wrong where I'm still in a position that she takes comfort from me and still wants to find the best in the situation. And where if I find out it's anything beyond just the stereotypical mean girl behavior, that I can step in and work on cutting that kid out of our lives. 

[rere]

I kind of nudge in the other direction. We talk about why a certain person is not being a good friend and how some friends can get you in trouble, even if you are not directly at fault. In my experience, queen bee behavior is learned.

That was the conversation a few yrs back with ds. This summer he made a new friend on the football team. We had heard some things about this kid, but Ds didn't want to believe it. He got in on a group chat. In checking his phone one day, I scrolled back to before ds was in the group. This kid was bragging about stealing. I showed ds and he deleted himself from the group and cut ties. So far this school year, this kid has been accused of stealing, twice, kicked off the football team, and was expelled last week. It was a big eye opener for ds on people and friends and how association with some people can affect you too. He is pretty grateful he walked away before school even started.

[2chatter]

mae0111 - if you know the mom and she’s...less than ideal I suspect your instincts are right. There’s one of those in our elementary, and it shocks me that people can’t see it and loooove them. I’m just glad that they aren’t in our grades.

With lying, if you know it’s a lie I would for sure discuss it (not sure about this party thing). For the party I would openly talk about kindness and how that might have been hurtful and ask DD how she feels. Talking through those scenarios affirms kindness and helps kids self-select kind friends.

DD10 is BFFs with a couple of girls. One is a mean girl about thirty percent of the time. DD has scaled way back and said “I spend more time with A and B because they are always nice,
And C is sometimes unkind.”

Just keep the dialogue going!

[akafred]

Honestly in THIS case I would consider it a short term problem, or STP, and I try not to lose myself in STPs because I have a tendency to obsess a bit.

For longer term problems, I tend to wait and see for a bit before intervening, and then I usually try to come up with a book or movie that has the specific problem as a theme that we can talk about. With DD this seems to work a lot better than being direct. Her social skills are lacking subtlety, so I don't want her to blurt out stuff like, "My mom doesn't like you." The truth is there is good in every child, and some of the least likable need to be liked the most. DD currently seems to be concerned that a kid from her class is leaving the school because the kid's parents don't like her. She "knows" this is true because the girl told DD that her parents don't like her. And her mind connected the two events, the not liking with the switching schools. In reality they likely have no relation. Sorry, tangent. Anyway, I would find a book or movie where one kid is snotty to another in the same kind of way and ask gentle questions about it so DD forms the thoughts herself. But I kind of have to do that with DD because she's not one to just follow what I say blindly.

[kimberlybb]

I had a situation with a child in DD’s old class with behavior similar to what you described. I took the direct approach by telling DD and her teachers that I didn’t want the girls playing together. It totally backfired so I would continue to do exactly what you are doing by coaching her and talking to her about what being a friend means. At least once they move the interaction will be limited to school.

[covergirl82]

I have discouraged friendships. There was a boy in DS's young 5's class that wasn't someone I wanted him to hang out with (the kid mentioned watching TV shows like The Walking Dead and other things I deem inappropriate for a child that age). MIL lives in the same apartment building as that boy, and she mentioned the boy had asked a few times the summer following that school year if DS would ever come over to play. I told MIL that he was not someone I wanted to encourage a friendship with, so I asked MIL to just tell him that DS was pretty busy over the summer. Luckily they went to different schools the next year, so it hasn't been an issue since.

DH and I did a lot of coaching with each kid when starting a new school (preschool or elementary) about what personal qualities make a for a good friend, and what don't. We ask the kids each day how their day was, who they played with, what they played, if they had any issues, etc. If they had a problem with a friend, we talk with them about what caused the issue (in case it was our kid) and reinforce that kids who show negative behaviors may not make good friends.

DS has a really good group of 7 or 8 friends. DD has 3 or 4 good friends, but tends to have more difficulty with friends. (I think for her it is more difficult partly because of her own personality and partly because girls tend to not be as easy going as boys, at least what I've experienced with my own kids and their friends.)

[2chatter]

covergirl82 - there is a girl in DD’s kinder class, at his table, that watches horror movies (The Hills Have Eyes is one) and Walking Dead and Alien. And talks about it all the time. DS has nightmares based on her details.

Her mom is adored and PTA President. It sucks.

[covergirl82]

2chatter, ugh, that's tough. Have you talked to the teacher about it? I feel like if my kid was affected like that, I would talk to the teacher. But for me, when my kid is involved, I tend to be less concerned about what other parents think.

[mae0111]

DD2 would figure this out pretty easily with a tiny bit of coaching. She just hangs out with whoever is fun. We call her "Good Time Charlie". As soon as the girl drama starts, she's out, but quietly.

DD1 acts like whoever she is with. If she's with a happy, fun kid, she's a happy, fun kid. If she's with a catty girl that's picking on someone, DD1 joins in. Which is horrifying. We spend so much time talking about empathy and we even do some role playing. She also tends to brag a lot. All of her conversations with her friends involve her talking about her stuff or her talents, trying to impress them. I've been coaching her a lot on that, too.

I know she will encounter mean girls throughout her life, but I do not feel like she's equipped to deal with this effectively right now. DD2 - equipped, and I will not get involved unless it gets to a bullying stage. DD1 needs help, and I'm thinking that one of the ways to help her right now is to steer her away from this kid (and all the kids like her in her grade).

I guess I will continue to coach her and see how things go. I just want her to be a happy kid, and a nice kid. Last year, the 1st grade ring leaders would decide who would be ignored and who would be included. DD1 seems to be paying less attention to that this year, but it's still happening in the school yard. So I'm hoping we're moving in the right direction.

thank you all - always good advice!

[2chatter]

covergirl82 - the teacher hasn’t heard it. She did move the tables last year when i asked but then moved again and probably forgot about this so they are back together. I talked to the other parents after the mom denied that her kid watches this stuff and DS had a play date and all three other boys told me about that day’s Walking Dead from the girl. So next time I was out with a lot of the parents I mentioned it and two were like “oh I am sure they are wrong because they are such a great family”! One other parent messaged me after to say that she thinks there are issues there but would not speak up. Impossible and frustrating!

[waverly]

Feb 27, 2018 12:51:14 GMT -5 2chatter said:

covergirl82 - there is a girl in DD’s kinder class, at his table, that watches horror movies (The Hills Have Eyes is one) and Walking Dead and Alien. And talks about it all the time. DS has nightmares based on her details.

Her mom is adored and PTA President. It sucks.

I had a mom ask me if she should let her children watch IT. I was like noooooo. Think of all the nightmares!

Another mom tells me she doesn't want to shelter the kids too much- OK I can kind of get it. But then she tells me about all the nightmares they have, and I think why is this your strategy right now?

I'm probably a over protector and a tiny bit hoverer but if I don't protect them now when can I? I mean this is the age to do so more than other ages.

DH thinks I am a hoverer because he was raised with an authoritarian parent who was also emotionally and physically hand off. Like controlling and not true neglect but a bit in the neglectful camp. All the kids have had to go to therapy from their parenting style, so no I'm not going to model after their parenting.

I'll model after my moms a bit protective authoritative style where none of us needed therapy for it.

[2chatter]

waverly - DS went to a play date and they watched Pirates of the Caribbean. I was like what? He’s six and I thought maybe I was weird.

[waverly]

Feb 27, 2018 14:18:42 GMT -5 2chatter said:

waverly - DS went to a play date and they watched Pirates of the Caribbean. I was like what? He’s six and I thought maybe I was weird.

My kids are sensitive to media. I get it because I was like that as a kid. I figure they have their whole life to watch whatever, so why make them too scared now and cause nightmares? They'll grow into it at their own time.

I usually search in Common Sense Media to at least give me an age range and review. Pirates of the Caribbean is 12 yrs and older.

[twinmomma]

waverly, 2chatter, That is nuts! Who lets little kids watch that?! Isn't it like, entirely the point of movie ratings? So anyone can figure it out?

I'm with you guys. My kids would never be allowed to watch that stuff. When DH and I were still into Walking Dead, we'd even make sure to pause and turn off the TV if a kid woke up and came downstairs!

[2chatter]

We don’t even turn the TV on (except sports) and the oldest is almost 14!! I just don’t get it.

I could go on for days about Minecraft (not in creative mode) and Roblox and social media (my kids don’t have any, beyond the oldest having Pinterest).

[waverly]

Feb 27, 2018 14:39:41 GMT -5 2chatter said:

We don’t even turn the TV on (except sports) and the oldest is almost 14!! I just don’t get it.

I could go on for days about Minecraft (not in creative mode) and Roblox and social media (my kids don’t have any, beyond the oldest having Pinterest).

Neither H nor I grew up with gaming consoles. We are both opposed although he is more than me. Is the issue the addictiveness or the interaction with strangers online? Or other stuff? For me it would be both. I know people tout the educational qualities of Minecraft, but I would rather my kids read a book. I don't expect them to be video game designers, and growing up the digital age they are not lacking with experience on computers.

We are likely to get a lot of pushback though from the kids. DS says he wants a gaming system and claims he is the only one that doesn't have one in first grade. He also wants an iPad. He just mentions it in passing every once in a while. I wouldn't be super opposed to a wii with the sports games but nothing violent. My nephews play the violent video games from a very young age.

[akafred]

Feb 27, 2018 14:23:59 GMT -5 twinmomma said:

waverly, 2chatter, That is nuts! Who lets little kids watch that?! Isn't it like, entirely the point of movie ratings? So anyone can figure it out?

I'm with you guys. My kids would never be allowed to watch that stuff. When DH and I were still into Walking Dead, we'd even make sure to pause and turn off the TV if a kid woke up and came downstairs!

Me lol. I think DD watched Pirates at 6. Maybe even 5 (can't remember). But she is very *not* sensitive to scary movies. She has anxiety, but it's over stuff like whether anyone will ever want to marry her when she grows up and whether I tell her dad she was texting me from his phone in the car when she asked to watch a movie (which he would absolutely 100% not have an issue with, butnshe swore me to secrecy and made me promise not to tell him because she thought he would be mad). When it comes to media, she craves scary/spooky stuff and always has. I am not crazy about it, IMO, as I have some guidelines. I am ok with cartoonish violence (i.e. Superhero) or things that could not happen, like *some* aliens or monsters. I draw the line at too intense or human vs human violence or sheer evil. No Freddie Krueger, no Jason, yes to Harry Potter and Spider-Man.

P.S. I would not show those movies at a play date though.

[2chatter]

We have a Wii and iPads - but no violent games, nothing with any fighting. DH is pro Xbox and Xbox live because “DS would like it”. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough. I will win this as SS is the perfect example of why the Xbox is bad. SS and DS are currently opposites per DH, so I am going to keep it that way.

Middle will be the PITA here. She already hates that I read all her texts. When she can’t have social media in junior high? She may die.

[186momx]

DD is super picky about TV. The sleepover she went to she had issues with the movies they watched and got really upset which was the only small issue and the mom just switched movies. It was a cartoon movie that DD hadn't seen so she freak. Zombies, dead people, violence is all a big no especially if it isn't at home. Ghostbusters is even out as she freaked with the cartoon series. B-day party Saturday will be interesting as it is Ghostbuster theme.
Now DD likes Harry Potter but we've been reading the books and she loves to dissect the difference between book/movie. I would never let her watch it with friends over at 6-7 age.
We've only taken her to the theaters once and it turned out that she had to curl up on DH's lap. Aftercare for spring break is going to the movies one day and seeing Sherlock Gnomes and I'm really paranoid about how DD will do.

[rere]

Feb 27, 2018 15:07:29 GMT -5 2chatter said:

We have a Wii and iPads - but no violent games, nothing with any fighting. DH is pro Xbox and Xbox live because “DS would like it”. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough. I will win this as SS is the perfect example of why the Xbox is bad. SS and DS are currently opposites per DH, so I am going to keep it that way.

Middle will be the PITA here. She already hates that I read all her texts. When she can’t have social media in junior high? She may die.

The move from the Wii to the xbox system was a real shock to the system. Thankfully when ds was small Wii was the thing. We had a ball as a family playing Mario Cart. Then we upgrade to the xbox. Silly me thought it was just a gaming console. Not even realizing about the online. That's when we had to really up our game and talk about online safety. He only had a couple of friends that we approved of playing online.