Post by imojoebunny on Mar 13, 2018 10:56:55 GMT -5
Sidewalks in a more densely populated areas. We have them on both sides of most street in most of our town. Houses are close together, there are lots of places to walk to, and people do walk. At our cabin, there are not sidewalks anywhere in the neighborhood, even on the main roads, it would not be practical to put them in. The houses are too far apart, and it would be a big expense, for the little use they would get. People usually drive pretty slow anyway because deer are everywhere, and not afraid of cars. They are very effective traffic calming animals.
Walkability is very important to me. I live in an older neighborhood so there are some no sidewalk streets. it wasn’t a deal breaker for me because there were alternate routes I could take with sidewalks. But the neighborhood as a whole needs to have a vibe of people out and about. Close to shops, parks etc.
No sidewalks is a marker for affluent for some folks. I personally want to live in a walk-able neighborhood which means sidewalks but also retail/restaurants/services like libraries in walking distance.
In my experience, the people who live in a neighborhood with no sidewalks as a marker of status are also the people who post on NextDoor (or worse, call the cops) every time they see someone “out of place” in the neighborhood.
Sidewalks forever.
Yes. I live in a rural-ish predominantly white county, and the older neighborhoods in it (like mine) don't have sidewalks. When this was brought up in a local fB Group, asking how to get sidewalks, the response was "go back to the city if you want sidewalks."
Sidewalks. Lack of sidewalks indicates to me that no one really goes outside and there's nothing within walking distance so everyone drives everywhere. That means this neighborhood is either in the boonies or in a suburb too far from civilization for my non-driving self.
Exactly. And I like sidewalks that are two people wide, not those skinny sidewalks where if you are out walking with someone they basically have to walk behind you in a single file line.
Can I get triple wide for me, my H, and my dog lol?
For me, it depends. If the neighborhood is isolated from through traffic, I'm ok with no sidewalks, as they're a liability/hazard for homeowners. I grew up in a neighborhood without (and my mom still lives there) and people just walk in the street/step into someone's lawn when the rare car is coming. It is an extremely quiet neighborhood, though (three total blocks). If the neighborhood has through traffic or is larger, I'd prefer sidewalks (and, more specifically, sidewalks with curb grass/landscaping) for sake of safety.
Which is ok as long as you don't have any mobility issues. Try doing that in a wheelchair or a walker.
Post by icedcoffee on Mar 13, 2018 11:02:50 GMT -5
WITH!! We live on a main-ish street in the suburbs (solid yellow line and stop signs) and it doesn't have a sidewalk. It's pretty much one of my only complaints about our house and I have gone to a few town meetings to try to get sidewalks. So far I haven't had luck. Without a sidewalk it is a huge pain to walk the dog in the winter when there is snow. It's also really annoying to take my kid for stroller or bike rides.
People in the neighborhood who are against it have the dumbest reasons: extra foot traffic (which is absurd because we are in the burbs and now people just walk on my grass), some people will lose bus service to school (huge eyeroll--your precious being able to ride a bus shouldn't jeopardize my walker from having a sidewalk to walk on), not want to shovel (we live outside DC--we get MAYBE one big storm a year). People are so dumb. Most of these people don't even live on my street--they live in the neighborhood which does have sidewalks. Get off my lawn. Build me a sidewalk.
Per ADA compliance, any neighborhood without sidewalks will eventually have to be retrofit with sidewalks.
Part of my job deals with this, and we had a neighborhood fight having sidewalks put in (they saw it as gentrification). We had to do some creative planning to get that neighborhood ADA compliant, while still honoring their wish to not have sidewalks.
Good! I hope that means sidewalks without the crossing dips in them will have to be updated too. There's a stretch near my house that doesn't have them and I see folks in wheelchairs using the bike lane along that street quite a bit since getting onto the sidewalk is difficult.
We grew up without sidewalks, but we had sidewalks when we lived in CA, so it seemed odd to me not to have them when we first moved to FL, but it certainly wasn't the weirdest or most disturbing thing we have encountered here. Definitlely not a make it or break it thing for us
We don't have sidewalks in our neighborhood (unincorporated 3 block section in between several city neighborhoods with sidewalks), and I think we have more people from the area biking and walking in our neighborhood than the surrounding ones. Our streets are narrower too, so I think cars tend to go slower and watch out more for people walking their dogs, people biking, kids playing, runners, and other cars.
Our street in CA was the main street through the development and people flew through there, so it was nice to have sidewalks for walking, although if the kids were riding bikes on the sidewalk you had to walk in the street anyway to avoid getting run over by the kids anyway.
Per ADA compliance, any neighborhood without sidewalks will eventually have to be retrofit with sidewalks.
Part of my job deals with this, and we had a neighborhood fight having sidewalks put in (they saw it as gentrification). We had to do some creative planning to get that neighborhood ADA compliant, while still honoring their wish to not have sidewalks.
Interesting. I didn't think about the ADA compliance. I just assumed no sidewalks = people who just don't like the 'look' of cement going through their lawn. But now that I think about it, my parents house is on a street with no sidewalks though some of the other streets with more foot/car traffic do, and they live in a low-middle class area with older homes so look really probably had nothing to do with it at the time.
It's going to quickly become an issue for many cities re: government suing for compliance. (Unless our *entire* government implodes because of Cheeto.) In CO we've had several towns/cities sued that have to now very quickly build millions of dollars of infrastructure. It's amazing how many developers do not want to put in sidewalks (or really build roads to any standard). Depending on where you live, it could be *very* costly to the homeowners to upgrade with sidewalks/curb/gutter as eventually they'll be on the hook for it.
Post by pantsparty on Mar 13, 2018 11:07:56 GMT -5
The only neighborhoods I know without sidewalks also have shitty city services for clearing snow, and sometimes the city is not responsible at all. Just something to look into/think about.
Per ADA compliance, any neighborhood without sidewalks will eventually have to be retrofit with sidewalks.
Part of my job deals with this, and we had a neighborhood fight having sidewalks put in (they saw it as gentrification). We had to do some creative planning to get that neighborhood ADA compliant, while still honoring their wish to not have sidewalks.
Good! I hope that means sidewalks without the crossing dips in them will have to be updated too. There's a stretch near my house that doesn't have them and I see folks in wheelchairs using the bike lane along that street quite a bit since getting onto the sidewalk is difficult.
Yes, those all have to be fixed as well. It might take for-freaking-ever though. We're on a 50 year plan (but hope to accelerate). If we get sued we're hoping that a concrete (no pun intended) plan will save us from having to throw the entire city budget into fixing everything all at once.
Post by seeyalater52 on Mar 13, 2018 11:10:09 GMT -5
While we don’t have sidewalks being against them is at the very least stupid, and in a lot of cases probably discriminatory.
Also, in our town homeowners are responsible for sidewalk maintenance and re-doing them is expensive and something I’m glad we don’t have to worry about. To me they should be a public good maintained by the city for the benefit of all.
Speaking of shoveling sidewalks, not that long ago, I was walking through a stretch of my neighborhood filled with million dollar homes like 2 days after it snowed. Pretty much every house had shoveled except for one. WTF, dude? You live in a MILLION DOLLAR house. You can hire someone to shovel your sidewalk. Selfish asshole.
The only neighborhoods I know without sidewalks also have shitty city services for clearing snow, and sometimes the city is not responsible at all. Just something to look into/think about.
There are places where the city removes snow from sidewalks on residential streets? I want to live there! When we had sidewalks in front of our house (renting) we were responsible for clearing them within 6 hours of a snowfall or the city would fine you, but they didn’t remove snow except in a few sections of downtown. No one complied and every snowfall was an obstacle course of snow and ice.
The only neighborhoods I know without sidewalks also have shitty city services for clearing snow, and sometimes the city is not responsible at all. Just something to look into/think about.
There are places where the city removes snow from sidewalks on residential streets? I want to live there! When we had sidewalks in front of our house (renting) we were responsible for clearing them within 6 hours of a snowfall or the city would fine you, but they didn’t remove snow except in a few sections of downtown. No one complied and every snowfall was an obstacle course of snow and ice.
No, I meant the streets, not the sidewalks. Sorry!
Post by litebright on Mar 13, 2018 11:15:20 GMT -5
I prefer them, but I've only had them when I lived in either a dense suburb or a city. I grew up in a rural area where only the central part of our small town had them, and am in a semi-rural area now that is similar.
My dogs still have no idea how to deal with roads with no sidewalks. They want to walk in the middle of the street now. Drives me nuts.
We live on a busy street on a bus route. I love having a lot of foot traffic. I like seeing people run by, people with their dogs, people commuting. It just feels lively and also feeds into my snoopy sensibilities. :-) My elderly cat likes to sit in our sunroom at the front of the house and people watch all day. #spiritanimal
While we don’t have sidewalks being against them is at the very least stupid, and in a lot of cases probably discriminatory.
Also, in our town homeowners are responsible for sidewalk maintenance and re-doing them is expensive and something I’m glad we don’t have to worry about. To me they should be a public good maintained by the city for the benefit of all.
We live on a busy street on a bus route. I love having a lot of foot traffic. I like seeing people run by, people with their dogs, people commuting. It just feels lively and also feeds into my snoopy sensibilities. :-) My elderly cat likes to sit in our sunroom at the front of the house and people watch all day. #spiritanimal
This is how I feel. I am cranky about my neighbors right now because we share walls and hallways and I'm forced to listen to their doors slam or smell their stank weed. But H's coworkers were saying that walking in the street is NBD because only 1 or 2 cars per hour go down the street, and I was thinking how lonely and isolated that sounds.
Post by InBetweenDays on Mar 13, 2018 11:22:42 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'd buy a house somewhere that didn't have a sidewalk. But we live in a somewhat urban neighborhood and I like living in a walkable area.
I will say we live on a very popular street for walking/running/biking (which we love). But I'm always surprised by the number of people that still walk or run in the street. There is a group of women that walk their dogs every morning that walk 5 abreast in the street. (and this is a street with cars parked on either side and barely room for two cars to pass in the street).
Our neighborhood doesn't, and I have on some occasions wished it did, mostly for running. But I don't really feel that strongly, it's a residential neighborhood with 25 mph speed limits, plenty of stop signs, etc. Walking on the road is NBD. And no sidewalks means not having to clear snow off a sidewalk on a city deadline, which is nice. We get a fair amount of snow.
While we don’t have sidewalks being against them is at the very least stupid, and in a lot of cases probably discriminatory.
Also, in our town homeowners are responsible for sidewalk maintenance and re-doing them is expensive and something I’m glad we don’t have to worry about. To me they should be a public good maintained by the city for the benefit of all.
They have to be paid for by the people somehow.
But wouldn’t it make more sense to assess taxes and pay for them that way instead of billing it homeowner by homeowner? In some neighborhoods the sidewalk is just on one side of the street and obviously residents on both sides use them. A 10k charge to replace a small section of sidewalk piecemeal every 7-10 years for half the homeowners on the street feels silly and excessive (you have to go through the city to replace, and the company that does them is outrageously expensive.) Plus replacing section by section as people come up with the money is inefficient and silly. Just tax me and get it over with!
Our street doesn’t have sidewalks but the main streets in the neighborhood and surrounding do. Coming from the city to the suburbs that was probably the biggest adjustment! I wouldn’t say no to a sidewalk in front of our house but we live on a quiet cul de sac so it’s not really necessary. Plus no required sidewalk shoveling in the winter, which is a bonus! Some walkability was an absolute requirement for us when we bought our house and moved from the city so I definitely understand that concern.
This. Precisely. Minus the "moving from the city" part since we'd already done that one move ago.
I've been in neighborhoods that are totally walkable without sidewalks. I've also been in others that aren't truly walkable with sidewalks. (between running and my job this is something I pay attention to a lot) But all else being equal, I'd rather have a sidewalk.
MH is of the opinion that we have the best of both worlds - walkable, sidewalks where we need them (main streets) and no need to deal with maintenance or shoveling.
My neighborhood is kind of old and definitely poorly planned. My part of my street has sidewalks because we're part of the city bus route and there are bus stops on the end of our block. There are sidewalks from the main roads through the neighborhood that lead to those bus stops. But none of the other streets have sidewalks. Some people want them, but a lot of the lots are already really small and because of that, some people really don't want them. And I can't blame them too much, when your lot is already only 5K sqft. or less, you don't want to have to give up any of that to eminent domain or however they do it.
eta: I'm not saying it's not worth it, I just get where they are coming from in this case. The streets are already fairly narrow, so it's hard to see how they would be able to do it without using private property. (I am admittedly not well-versed on such things, but these are the discussions I've skimmed when I've seen it come up on the neighborhood list serve.)
But wouldn’t it make more sense to assess taxes and pay for them that way instead of billing it homeowner by homeowner? In some neighborhoods the sidewalk is just on one side of the street and obviously residents on both sides use them. A 10k charge to replace a small section of sidewalk piecemeal every 7-10 years for half the homeowners on the street feels silly and excessive (you have to go through the city to replace, and the company that does them is outrageously expensive.) Plus replacing section by section as people come up with the money is inefficient and silly. Just tax me and get it over with!
How deep on this do you want to go? LOL! Like I said, my job deals directly with this, and it's so complicated. We have an entire database that tracks the conditions of sidewalks throughout the City. It's a billion dollars worth of infrastructure, and we're relatively small. Plus, you have to factor in the liability to the City for accepting responsibility of bad sidewalks. That would remove it from the homeowners, and place it squarely on the city's shoulders. Which, again, is billions of dollars. So you'd be paying 1) for the maintenance, and 2) for the insurance for the city with your taxes.
Post by WanderingWinoZ on Mar 13, 2018 11:32:18 GMT -5
I can see it being a matter of personal preference. I had sidewalks in my old neighborhood & never used them. In some neighborhoods with large lots (1 acre+) it wasn't realy necessary, but almost all the smaller neighborhoods around here, that are 50 years or younger, they have them.
Maybe b/c we had ltos of trees, but they always had cracks and uneven edges. They weren't really wide enough to run on side-by-side, so we always ran in the street. They were fine for running solo with my dog, but I had to be careful since I run in the dark. Also, where lots of people park in the driveway, their cars block the sidewalk, so you had to go into the street anyway.
Once I had a baby (newborn), I didn't like dealing with all the bumps/ramps, so we ran/walked in the street.