We have our eligibility meeting today

[funchicken]

I got copies of all of her assessment results yesterday. DD's in 4th grade. She was just diagnosed by the school psychologist with high functioning autism. She tested in the gifted range in reading and written expression, average in math--which we pretty much expected. She really struggles with group work in class: finding and approaching a partner, organizing the activity, reciprocal communication with her partner as they work, etc.

Ugh, I'm so nervous.

[sahara78]

Good luck today! Update once you can.

[funchicken]

Apr 19, 2018 9:58:02 GMT -5 sahara78 said:

Good luck today! Update once you can.

Thanks! The meeting went as well as could be expected--she's eligible for services. I may have eaten ice cream for lunch afterward I'm going to take a couple of days off before I start thinking about the next step.

[sahara78]

Glad it went well. Hope the ice cream was good, too.

[lemonberry]

Glad the meeting was good and she qualified for services.

[auntie]

So how did it go?

In terms of the collaborative work thing, this isn't something she'll learn all at once. Michelle Garcia Winner deals with group and team projects in TAYTAM and Think Social to some degree.

Initially, as this is an emerging skill, the teacher should be setting up teams although most are loath to do so and take the easier approach of allowing friends to work together. When this happens, your DD will be paired with the kid in the class deemed least desirable- very likely another child with some sort of challenges of their own. This default to a child I derisively call "Class Weirdo" (recognizing that my kid also fits that description) will make the experience harder for her because this kid will be less rewarding to work with (either not as bright, not cooperative, not reliable, too pushy, gives no f*cks- there's a reason this kid wasn't picked) and your DD will not overcome the anxiety of working with others. This sucks for the typical kids who are working with friends, too, because they don't learn to work well with kids who are not of their choosing which may be the single greatest skill associated with higher education and the the collaborative and diverse workplace.

It's great that she's doing well with reading comprehension. This can be tricky. In elementary, the achievement tests used for reading comprehension are pretty basic- often a paragraph or two about science, history, biography or a short fictional narrative. Even when DS was well barely grade level because of dyslexia, he could aced most of the non-fiction questions based on what he already knew. In 1st grade he got all the questions about rabbits correct even though he was reading at "pre-primer" level. He was repaired and at grade level by 4th and would still ace those portions that were non-fiction but more literature-like selections would reveal difficulties with plot devices, character motivation and inferred information. I recall a quick and dirty screening we did with DS's psych- DS read a passage about a kid walking to the bus stop- it was cold, the sun was just coming up, there was ice on the puddles and snow on the lawns. He was asked what was the season and he had no idea because nowhere in the text did it say "winter". Not only that, he felt it was unfair to ask since it didn't say. Ugh. Later he would argue that sometimes it's cold and snowy in the late fall or spring in many places.

By middle school, kids start reading more classic books as part of literature based learning. She might do well to continue social skills support to develop Theory of Mind in order to understand the characters she reads about or she will find this a frustrating experience. DS did OK by this time, but I remember a high school student in the psych's office when DS was little who had the appointment just before ours. He was brilliant- with a nearly perfect SAT but he was struggling in English because he didn't appreciate the books selected by his teachers. I recall a loud fight with the psych and his mother about not wanting to read "The Chosen" because Jews weren't relevant to his life because he didn't know any. The psych is Jewish; he had a picture of himself at each of his daughter's weddings wearing a yarmulke as well as some Hebrew sayings framed on the wall. The psych explained this and explained some reasons about why a teacher would pick it with the theme of becoming independent of your parents and making different choices. At this point the kid realized it was fiction and flipped out at the notion of "reading about made-up Jews who aren't even real". What I witnessed of this exchange terrified me as the parent of a little kid whose worst traits were anxiety and a love of trains.

One thing we did to help around this was reading together and watching movies that have complicated characters we could talk about. There's a surprising number even in pop culture- Darth Vader- is he inherently evil? How about Professor Snape- is he a good guy or a bad guy? DS never loved English classes; he reads a lot of non-fiction and biographies these days. But he learned enough ace his required college lit classes.

[funchicken]

auntie, thanks for all of the advice and things to think about. I have to go to preschool with my little, but I'll respond later this afternoon.

[akafred]

auntie, you've mentioned things like character motivation and inferred info before, but I am glad to see you provide more specifics of what you mean by that. Sometimes just the words don't mean as much, but what you said about it being cold with snow on the ground and ice in the puddles makes sense.

[auntie]

Apr 20, 2018 8:45:25 GMT -5 akafred said:

Sometimes just the words don't mean as much, but what you said about it being cold with snow on the ground and ice in the puddles makes sense.

The snow on the ground piece also demonstrated DS's issues with central coherence. Weak central coherence is a common feature for those with ASD- it's the ability to see details with clarity but miss the bigger picture. Kind of can't see the forest for the trees- like there's a pine, look at the oak with the squirrel's nest, oh another pine, some birches and another pine- but no ability to see that one is in the woods. 

[funchicken]

Apr 20, 2018 6:08:19 GMT -5 auntie said:

So how did it go?

The meeting was very straightforward. DH and I had met with the psychologist and educational diagnostician prior to the meeting to go over their reports, so each member of the team gave a quick summary of their findings. DH and I made corrections and gave some input, and we just checked off the boxes and were told that the IEP team will meet within 30 days. The school psychologist genuinely likes DD and seems very hands on at our school. The diagnostician thinks we are dealing with twice exceptionality, so that's something I'm going to read up on as far as our district's policies go.

In terms of the collaborative work thing, this isn't something she'll learn all at once. Michelle Garcia Winner deals with group and team projects in TAYTAM and Think Social to some degree.

ITA, I'm a huge TAYTAM fan. 

Initially, as this is an emerging skill, the teacher should be setting up teams although most are loath to do so and take the easier approach of allowing friends to work together. When this happens, your DD will be paired with the kid in the class deemed least desirable- very likely another child with some sort of challenges of their own. This default to a child I derisively call "Class Weirdo" (recognizing that my kid also fits that description) will make the experience harder for her because this kid will be less rewarding to work with (either not as bright, not cooperative, not reliable, too pushy, gives no f*cks- there's a reason this kid wasn't picked) and your DD will not overcome the anxiety of working with others. This sucks for the typical kids who are working with friends, too, because they don't learn to work well with kids who are not of their choosing which may be the single greatest skill associated with higher education and the the collaborative and diverse workplace.

Yes, I am definitely going to ask lots of questions about how we're going to work on this with her in a classroom setting. In our girl scout troop my co-leader and I always set up the groups because we want the girls to learn how to work with every member of the troop, and we want to avoid cliques. I see a huge improvement in our troop dynamic after working on it all year.

DH and I will be able to have input about class placement next year. The school counselor has a program to create supportive peers in the classroom that is a combination of an after school club and small lunch groups (that focus on social thinking concepts), so fortunately, at this point, DD has a number of supportive peers in her class. This is the best we could do without an IEP. Hopefully, we'll be able to get more next year.

It's great that she's doing well with reading comprehension. This can be tricky. In elementary, the achievement tests used for reading comprehension are pretty basic- often a paragraph or two about science, history, biography or a short fictional narrative. Even when DS was well barely grade level because of dyslexia, he could aced most of the non-fiction questions based on what he already knew. In 1st grade he got all the questions about rabbits correct even though he was reading at "pre-primer" level. He was repaired and at grade level by 4th and would still ace those portions that were non-fiction but more literature-like selections would reveal difficulties with plot devices, character motivation and inferred information. I recall a quick and dirty screening we did with DS's psych- DS read a passage about a kid walking to the bus stop- it was cold, the sun was just coming up, there was ice on the puddles and snow on the lawns. He was asked what was the season and he had no idea because nowhere in the text did it say "winter". Not only that, he felt it was unfair to ask since it didn't say. Ugh. Later he would argue that sometimes it's cold and snowy in the late fall or spring in many places.

DD maxes out the DRA score for her grade every year. She prefers reading fiction, and she reads quite a lot. Her class is doing a literature circle right now, and she's in the group with the hardest book (it's rated for grades 5-7). She had a little bit of trouble in the first chapter or two because of the slang and obscure references the character uses, but once she started to get it, she thoroughly enjoyed the book and was able to make accurate predictions about how it would end. The SLP said that DD is able to make inferences (she was right at the mean on that part of the test), but that she has difficulty understanding deeper character motivations.

By middle school, kids start reading more classic books as part of literature based learning. She might do well to continue social skills support to develop Theory of Mind in order to understand the characters she reads about or she will find this a frustrating experience. DS did OK by this time, but I remember a high school student in the psych's office when DS was little who had the appointment just before ours. He was brilliant- with a nearly perfect SAT but he was struggling in English because he didn't appreciate the books selected by his teachers. I recall a loud fight with the psych and his mother about not wanting to read "The Chosen" because Jews weren't relevant to his life because he didn't know any. The psych is Jewish; he had a picture of himself at each of his daughter's weddings wearing a yarmulke as well as some Hebrew sayings framed on the wall. The psych explained this and explained some reasons about why a teacher would pick it with the theme of becoming independent of your parents and making different choices. At this point the kid realized it was fiction and flipped out at the notion of "reading about made-up Jews who aren't even real". What I witnessed of this exchange terrified me as the parent of a little kid whose worst traits were anxiety and a love of trains.

I totally hear what you're saying, and I agree that social cognitive deficits have a direct impact on academics, especially understanding literature, cause and effect, making predictions, not pissing off the teacher... DD absolutely loves fiction--she's one of those gets lost in a fictional world kids. She always has a lot of questions when she's reading books for school, so I often read the books along with her. She also writes and draws beautifully, and I'd really like to see if we could add something to her IEP that would allow her to showcase her strengths. The diagnostician suggested talking to the teacher who runs the gifted program.

One thing we did to help around this was reading together and watching movies that have complicated characters we could talk about. There's a surprising number even in pop culture- Darth Vader- is he inherently evil? How about Professor Snape- is he a good guy or a bad guy? DS never loved English classes; he reads a lot of non-fiction and biographies these days. But he learned enough ace his required college lit classes.

DD's pragmatic profile score was the low score on the SLP's assessment. She really struggles to read body language and non-verbal cues. I think she also struggles with what she should be attending to at a given moment. The larger the group, the harder it is for her. She also has a really hard time with grey area thinking. She doesn't understand white lies. She often misinterprets things if the teacher doesn't use straightforward language. The other day she got in trouble because the teacher was reading to the class, and DD was doodling (which was allowed). DD started sharpening her pencil with a handheld sharpener, and I guess the noise started to get on the teacher's nerves, so she said, "DD, can you make that stop?" DD said "no", and the teacher thought DD was being a smartass and took the pencil sharpener away. The teacher thought it was clear that "can you make that stop?" meant "stop sharpening your pencil." DD thought she meant, "is it possible for you to sharpen your pencil without making that sound?" Which it isn't  

I'm sure I'll be asking for advice about the IEP meeting. I have a lot of reading to do.

[funchicken]

auntie, I thought a lot about your comments about how to improve DD's skills at working with a partner in class. The teacher often has to help her find a partner, and she commented that if DD is partnered with someone she doesn't like, she will walk off and do the work on her own. I think on any given day, there's probably a combination of things contributing to her struggling with this, but what should I ask for in the IEP meeting? DD is more comfortable working with girls. Can I ask that she not be paired with certain kids? Where do we start with this?

We do a lot of group or paired work in Girl Scouts, and DD, while by no means suave, does pretty well most of the time. After school the other day we went to a STEM event at an indoor skydiving place. There was about 45 minutes of waiting around time before we got started, then they learned about how the wind tunnel worked, then they got suited up, given instructions, and they got a chance to try it. After they flew, it was almost 7:00pm and the girls were starving and still had to sit through a 30 minute STEM lesson. DD hung in there for all of it even though she was a little bored and a lot hungry during the last part. The girls had to work as a group and experiment with building simple parachutes, and she did well with her group of four. She also chatted appropriately with two other girls on the drive home.

I know Girl Scouts is the optimal situation for her. She loves it, and she's very comfortable with the girls in the troop. It's a lot different from a science lesson (her least favorite subject) where she has to work with a partner on something she doesn't care about and probably doesn't have a firm understanding of what is being asked of her. It's also three times as many people in the room adding to the stress and the confusion.

We got a new SLP this year, and I read her bio. She's very big on Social Thinking and has done extra training in it. She seemed really on the ball in the meeting. I don't think DD's teacher has very much experience with students with ASD, but we only have 7 weeks left in the year.