Gifted vs gifted

[akafred]

Really interesting article.

yellowreadis.com/2017/08/gifted-vs-gifted.html

[waverly]

Our state mandates nothing and provides no funding for gifted programs. So I guess they would have no way of knowing who is in the red or purple.

Our district is also not a fan of grade skipping or early admittance although they do have AP classes for acceleration in high school. My guess is very little acceleration for elementary school. They are heavy on differentiation which probably works for most but not all the population.

[akafred]

I thought the part about where differentiation works vs the need for more was interesting, but I also thought the overall Venn diagram and the difference between "psychological" and "educational" giftedness, as they called it, was pretty onteresting, and the idea that two people could use the same word ("gifted") and have almost totally different definitions.

I also suspect that if giftedness is one slice out of a 3D model of all possible intelligence levels, there would be a similar Venn diagram. Perhaps at some point the two circles would converge toward the lower ranges. But it's an interesting concept. I don't really know if my kiddo is technically 2e; she might belong one layer down but in the niche that holds 2e above.

[Queen Mamadala]

May 14, 2018 6:03:04 GMT -5 akafred said:

I thought the part about where differentiation works vs the need for more was interesting, but I also thought the overall Venn diagram and the difference between "psychological" and "educational" giftedness, as they called it, was pretty onteresting, and the idea that two people could use the same word ("gifted") and have almost totally different definitions.

I also suspect that if giftedness is one slice out of a 3D model of all possible intelligence levels, there would be a similar Venn diagram. Perhaps at some point the two circles would converge toward the lower ranges. But it's an interesting concept. I don't really know if my kiddo is technically 2e; she might belong one layer down but in the niche that holds 2e above.

This. Really interesting article. My oldest falls in the purple group. Interestingly, even in her accelerated program she still feels held back, so I'd argue differentiation is important in accelerated classrooms as well. This is why we've contemplated homeschooling her because we'd be able to tailor her studies to her needs and interests, though we've been reluctant because the program she's in provides numerous other resources and opportunities. We supplement a lot at home.

My 5th grader falls in the 2e group and is high achieving, perhaps even purple. She excels in school, but like her sister, struggles with lack of challenge and differentiation in the classroom. She also has ASD and isn't very verbal unless she feels like it. My 2nd grader solidly 2e. He has ASD and ADHD. He falls into the subgroup that would not normally be identified and would fall through the cracks, so to speak. 

Both will be homeschooled next year. Their individual needs are not met within the current system's options. My 5th grader has expressed her love of learning, but does not like school itself and thinks it's boring and too easy. Same with my oldest. My 5th grader's needs definitely wouldn't be met attending the middle school she's zoned for.

[funchicken]

Interesting article. I do think there are all different types of giftedness.

Our elementary school has a gifted program that starts in 4th grade and is a full-day pullout once a week. They do small group projects. I go back and forth on whether I should have DD screened. I think her test scores are good enough, but I worry that if DD qualified in elementary but not middle, it would be a blow to her confidence. I might just see how things go next year, and if she does well with the support of her IEP, maybe we'll apply for the middle school program. Cooperative group work is one of her IEP goals, so it might be a good place for her to practice those skills.

[akafred]

funchicken, they don't grandfather in the elementary GAT kids?

[funchicken]

akafred, I'm not sure. I had heard that they didn't because admission to it was more competitive in MS because our district is so big. They don't even have GAT at the high school level because they have AP and accelerated classes.

[waverly]

We didn't have GAT at middle or high school because of the opportunity to take higher level classes. I.E. Algebra 1 in 8th grade instead of regular math. Our gifted program when I was a kid was really only 5th and 6th grade once a month pull outs. 6th grade was part of elementary school at that time.

[freezorburn]

Interesting to see different kinds of giftedness categorized this way. IDK if DS is gifted or not, since last year he wasn't yet reading well enough to take the district's test. But I'm not all that keen on getting him into an accelerated program. In my own experience I did some acceleration, and I knew quite a few other kids who did more acceleration than I did. I'm not sold on any long-term benefits.

I feel like there is a lot of emphasis on acceleration for gifted kids, and I don't hear much about enrichment. I was fortunate to be in a school district that had decent enrichment programs .... at least from my estimation they were a good fit for me. I liked having the opportunity to study something more in-depth than the regular curriculum allowed for. Or to cover topics outside of what was required.

Acceleration was an exception. Every few years there would be a kid who skipped a grade. Or there might be a few who would accelerate only in math. But I remember hearing from parents of other gifted kids that they got a lot of push back from the district on getting approval for their kids to skip a year of math, for example.

[funchicken]

Our gifted education department is holding a seminar tonight about 2e learners. I'm interested in hearing what they have to say.

[funchicken]

After attending our district's meeting about 2e learners, my impression was that there was a pretty big communication/knowledge gap between gifted services and students with special needs. I was sitting next to one of the GT teachers, and she said she feels like where special education services are protected, the same isn't true of gifted education services. She teaches groups of students from different elementary schools. Her smallest class has 13 students and her largest has 26. She was moved into a smaller classroom this year, and she has colleagues who have as many as 30 kids in their classes. She said they're not usually looped in on IEP meetings, and scheduling presents a big challenge because she only has the students for one day/week, so pullouts can be hard because the students miss out on time working on projects.

There were also a number of parents there who had children with ADHD or other issues who weren't able to qualify for IEPs, but whose special needs presented challenges in the classroom.

The teachers that spoke all said they would like to see more opportunities for professional development because most general education teachers don't have a lot of experience with either gifted or special needs students. They also said communication and collaboration with parents was really important.

I'm glad I went even though I was exhausted, but I feel like the meeting was really just the starting point of a much larger and more complex conversation.

[waverly]

funchicken , I totally agree with your assessment. I originally trained as a general ed teacher. I am in a different related field now. I had zero discussion and classes on special education. Fast forward to student teaching and there were several special education students in my class. Even if they were not labeled or didn't have IEP.   Its just not practical to not have it anywhere in the college curriculum for teachers. ETA- I had at least 5 students out of 20 that needed extra help, but I was not part of an IEP and only 2 were designated in the special ed program.  Also there was no support like a teacher or para pro never came in to instruct me or help the student.  They were high functioning, but needed more help. 

I know some places gifted students had IEPs, but I was in the gifted program, and I did not have an IEP growing up. I think there was maybe an initial testing parent meeting and an after testing, but there were no annual meetings after that. We only had monthly pull outs so from a student perspective I didn't miss anything I didn't already know or could make up quickly, but that may not be true with weekly pull outs.

freezorburn , Our school district doesn't offer too much on enrichment at least at this level, and the same where I grew up. Most of my enrichment came from my mom and scouts, community classes, 4H and other activities. That is a really good point for a well rounded life.

As for acceleration, I really only found it helpful academically. I.E. I skipped 5 classes in college because I had the classes already in high school. But the college only counted 1 of the classes for graduation. The other classes were counted for registration. Unless there is something really helpful/ awesome/ cool lined up for after graduation, I don't see graduating early as being super helpful except for financial wise.  And I know some kids graduate high school early or have awesome grades in high school and then falter and never do anything else- just whatever job they can get often with no additional skills learned.