RE: planning weekends/ mental fatigue

[helenahhandbasket]

So I didn't want to hijack waverly's thread but lately I have been thinking a lot about this.  My ex h helped out a lot around the house without being asked and also did a lot of the scheduling and child care, as when my DD was young, he SAH part time.  He cooked all of the meals and did all of the laundry as well.  

When we divorced and I moved out on my own with DD, it was a big shock.  I had to learn how to cook at age 34 (FFFC?) and juggle all of the household chores while having all of the child care fall on me as well as working FT.  I got pretty good at it (except the cooking- I am still kind of terrible at that).

H moved in Oct of 2016.  We both work day shifts (I am 9-6, He is 7-4).  By the time I get off of work, pick up DD and walk in my door it's 715-- IF I am lucky- it's usually closer to 7:30.  I guess I was under the impression that once he moved in my life would be easier-- and in many respects it is.  But he comes home, plops on the couch and watches me run around like a chicken with my head cut off fixing something to eat, straightening up, giving DD a bath, making lunches, spending SOME time with her and then getting her in bed at 9, which is when I finally get to sit.

He will, on occasion, cook unprompted (but not clean up), straighten up unprompted but those times are few and far between.  We have fought about it before and his reasoning is either 1) he's more tired than I am because he has a physical job or 2) the chores that I do at night pertain to my DD and he feels like she wouldn't want him to help her do- mainly bathing and getting ready for bed, which I suppose is true.  When I point out small ways he can help (get a new trash bag, wipe up dog pee etc) he claims to have not noticed that (whatever thing) needed tending to.

We have discussed it several times with varying levels of intensity.  I don't have the strength to discuss it every day, and I don't want to feel like his mother by having to constantly remind him of what needs to be done.  This wasn't a surprise to me, so I did marry him well knowing this was a thing that I would have to deal with.  I know this is a fairly common problem in a lot of dual income households, I am wondering if anyone has had any success in getting through to their hubby without the help of couples therapy?  (I am wiling to go, though).

TL;DR men are useless

[2chatter]

DH seriously wondered for a long time why I didn’t get more done that he thought I should do. Now that he’s been around more he sees why - and he creates more work than he saves, so far. I mostly just do whatever I would do and he does whatever he would do and he sometimes does more than I think he will. So I’m pretty much no help with this as I spend my time alternately appreciating him and wondering why he gets to sit on the couch judging me and the state of the house/kids/dishwasher/etc.

I’ve discovered also that he’s great with babies, but less awesome with the day to day of big kids. It’s like he tunes them out totally and thus also doesn’t see things like trash that needs to be taken out. And it’s not consistent so I don’t get that either. I crave predictable.

[mustardseed2007]

Without getting into specifics, my first response is, why doesn't he pick her up from day care if he gets off work so early? Think how much easier that alone would make your life.

We have areas of responsibility in my house. Because i'm the lazy one and I need a chore in order to be sure I do it. I don't judge my DH for not doing nonspecific, grazing type chores like straightening b/c I suck at it. I'd assign areas of responsibility to him to make your life easier.

Like he cooks something simple and you clean up after. It takes very little effort to put a frozen chicken pot pie in the oven and do one of those veggie steamers, which is what DH will be cooking tonight since I'm taking the kids to swimming lessons.

[judyblume14]

At our house, we go by the general rule of "no one relaxes unless we're both relaxing." My h does the day care pick up, so I'm usually home a few minutes earlier than them and start dinner. Whoever finishes eating first starts cleaning up dinner while the other stays at the table helping the girls. We do bath and bed time together.

After bedtime, if there are things to be done (finish cleaning kitchen, pack lunches, fold laundry), we chip away at them until completion. Once in a while, I go to bed early and he does the chores. Or he wants to watch the baseball game, so I'll do the chores.

He takes care of the cats, the landscaping, the fixing stuff. I take care of the bathrooms, and general cleaning. We work together on general tidying and entertaining the kids.

My suggestion to you is to figure out what each of you are responsible for together and individually. If he's home 2 hours before you, he should cook dinner. And I agree that you should be doing bath and bed time with your daughter if that is what she prefers. If he "doesn't see" the pee on the floor or the missing trash bag, just say "babe can you wipe up the pee and get a trash bag while I'm brushing DD's hair? Thanks!" Asking someone to do what any reasonable adult would do isn't nagging, it's reminding someone that they need to pitch in for the household to work.

[waverly]

I did a list of all the chores/ routines in a google document and on the calendar- a separate google calendar scheduled them all out. Then we had a meeting/ discussion and we assigned them out. It has gone through many revisions through the years, not the document but the chores themselves as DH's has gone from traveling to local to unemployed to local with longer commute and back to traveling, but not as many days.

Tired doesn't mean much to me on a daily basis. Yes he has a physical job but you are gone out of the house from 8 (assuming an hour commute) to 7:15, so it's not like you aren't doing anything and some chores like dinner and dishes are daily. Does he get DD ready in the morning and do drop off?

That being said, with DH traveling obviously I do a lot more of the cooking and dishes during the week because he is not here, but he does more on the weekends (albeit on his super late schedule which drives me a bit crazy).

In commiseration or solidarity, DH also never packs lunches nor does he straighten up except maybe once a week which that really is a daily task. The lunches really twerk me, but only in the summer for camp because the rest of the year the kids buy hot lunch. He does usually do dishes but sometimes when he gets to them which means I need to cook another meal beforehand, and I hate cooking in a dirty kitchen.

Your kid is getting older, 6 maybe? I am definitely having the kids do more every 6 months or so, I increase the chores/ difficulty.

DS and DD feed the cat, set and clear the table, DS (7 almost 8) does dishes with a little supervision, DD (5) clears the table and wipes it. They unpack their back packs, put their bathing suits to dry, clean the bathroom on the weekends, I got a Roomba for daily, help get the stuff out to make lunches. Bathing I wash their hair, and then leave. I started teaching DS how to feel if there is soap left over, DD gets a little more. Honestly I don't bath every day. I wish I bathed them more, but it falls down the priority list because dinner is the priority and homework and bedtime

I think on this board at least some of this have suggested outsourcing everything- laundry if you want, housecleaning, lawn work, grocery delivery etc, Amazon.

The thing that I think is happening with our lives and economy is that a couple things- 1. I think a lot of men pick and chose what tasks they want to do, and a lot of it is not those domestic type chores because even if their parents taught them well, there is still a bit of unconscious bias that the woman does that or its women's work, or its unpaid work so therefore not valued. Just those gendered roles like my dad didn't make lunches or its fine I didn't see the dirt etc. to which we really see as just excuses. 2. You have two working parents and everyone is tired. Its a long commute maybe, full time, rat race, pick up kids drop off kids, laundry, cooking cleaning etc. Who has time for anything else? Its like a hamster wheel, so I think that is why a lot of those things instead of being picked up or shared by men the women either go crazy doing it all, have a rare H who helps, nags or fights all the time, or outsources. Our situation probably like most is a combination of all 4 things.

[twinmomma]

It sounds like you need to assign him tasks to make the division of labor in the evenings more consistent. He gets home hours before you? Dinner is 100% on him. No excuses. He could make lunches too in that time frame.

DH and I had to make very specific evening tasks and divvy it up. For example, one does bedtime, the other person does the dishes simultaneously. Chores happen in tandem and we've split up those couple of required evening tasks to make it manageable. There have been nights where DH doesn't do the dishes while I'm doing bedtime, but he knows, before he gets in bed, they better be done.

[helenahhandbasket]

Thanks ladies, I knew there would be some good suggestions here.

mustardseed2007, my mom picks DD up from school and keeps her for me until I get home. To make things as awkward as possible, my ex lives with her (he rents from her) so there are some weird feelings there between my mom and my H, and sometimes my ex gets home early enough on the weekdays to see DD for a bit before either H or I get home from work, so having H pick her up is a bit too awkward right now. I’m hoping eventually that will change, or our situation will change.

I love that rule judyblume14

[mommyatty]

I am struggling a little, wondering if he thinks he should have no responsibility toward your daughter because she isn’t his. That’s not gonna work if that’s the case. He needs to be all in with helping with her, though certainly you can give him a pass on naked stuff like bathing and changing clothes. But picking her up from day care and watching her for an hour or so? He can do that, and even help with homework during that time. Cooking dinner for you guys, especially since that’s a chore you don’t enjoy either? Yeah, he can do that.

I like the rule that no one rests unless everyone is resting. Adults can find what needs to be done if they are looking to be adults. It doesn’t sound like you are demanding the house pass a white glove test. I mean, “wipe up the dog pee” is pretty basic.

[mustardseed2007]

oh woah I get that now. Which is all the more reason why dinner should be waiting for you. Ahem.

[sdlaura]

One way I’ve tried to address this issue is by taking advantage of my DH’s frugality. He’s a major saver and hates spending money. So I’ll say ‘so, x and y and z need to be done regularly. I’ll handle x and y. Either you can handle z or I’ll hire someone to do it.’ And he knows I really will hire someone if he doesn’t keep up with it.

Also I have acknowledged that my DH and I have different levels of 100%. My 100% effort at home and with kids gets a lot more accomplished than his 100%. We’ve been together 15 years, and I know that he really does need more sleep and rest than I do to be a functioning human. I’m a natural multitasker and love logistics, while it’s much harder for him.

I’ve shown my DH that great mental load cartoon and that’s helped us talk more about how I shoulder the mental load. It hasn’t necessarily changed how things break down much, but he’s gotten better at being appreciative about everything I handle.

[186momx]

The only thing I can add is the 15 minute rule. You set a timer for 15-20 minutes and everyone does some household task during those 15 minutes time goes off and you finish what you are doing and then everyone can go to do what they want. A lot can get done in 15 minutes (dishwasher loaded & unloaded, vacuum, clean the bathroom, pick up stuff, make beds). FYI this works great for DD and I. DH tends to try and help me with my task instead of doing something else so I have to give him a task before we start.


I would get YH to start cooking dinner so it is ready 20 minutes after you get home. This way once you get home DD and you can help set the table and finish up the last few things. Crock pot meals and freezer meals may be easy to get him going.

[xctsclrx]

So he kind of sounds like a teenager as in the oblivious about what needs to be done.

If I ask my teenagers to clean anything I have to be very specific about what I am looking for (clean dishes put away, dirty dishes back in dishwasher, take out trash, put bag in trashcan, wipe counters and table, sweep floor.) DH made up their chore list and included the expectations. Hopefully you wouldn't have to be as direct with him but I would definitely make a list of things you would like to get done daily. Then assign chores to each person.

For my family. DH does all morning stuff with DS. We get home close to the same time. I usually cook, but he would be okay if I asked him to be responsible for that. Whoever cooks the other one cleans. We have DS helping gather dishes and cleaning the table. Eventually it will be his job. We take turns bathing and putting DS to bed. The other person straightens up and relaxes. We outsouced the mopping, vacuuming, dusting and bathroom cleaning. It was best for the marriage lol.

I am curious to see how this will change with another kid. I am sure there will be a large adjustment period.

[helenahhandbasket]

Jun 7, 2018 16:58:37 GMT -5 xctsclrx said:

So he kind of sounds like a teenager as in the oblivious about what needs to be done.

If I ask my teenagers to clean anything I have to be very specific about what I am looking for (clean dishes put away, dirty dishes back in dishwasher, take out trash, put bag in trashcan, wipe counters and table, sweep floor.) DH made up their chore list and included the expectations. Hopefully you wouldn't have to be as direct with him but I would definitely make a list of things you would like to get done daily. Then assign chores to each person.

For my family. DH does all morning stuff with DS. We get home close to the same time. I usually cook, but he would be okay if I asked him to be responsible for that. Whoever cooks the other one cleans. We have DS helping gather dishes and cleaning the table. Eventually it will be his job. We take turns bathing and putting DS to bed. The other person straightens up and relaxes. We outsouced the mopping, vacuuming, dusting and bathroom cleaning. It was best for the marriage lol.

I am curious to see how this will change with another kid. I am sure there will be a large adjustment period.

TBH I am not sure if he is genuinely oblivious or if he's playing me a little bit.

I met him when he was 37- never been married or even gotten close to getting married.  He lived alone for over a decade.  It's been a learning process for both of us and although I have seen him grow up quite a bit, he still has some growing up to do.

[xctsclrx]

Jun 8, 2018 8:28:47 GMT -5 helenahhandbasket said:

Jun 7, 2018 16:58:37 GMT -5 xctsclrx said:

So he kind of sounds like a teenager as in the oblivious about what needs to be done.

If I ask my teenagers to clean anything I have to be very specific about what I am looking for (clean dishes put away, dirty dishes back in dishwasher, take out trash, put bag in trashcan, wipe counters and table, sweep floor.) DH made up their chore list and included the expectations. Hopefully you wouldn't have to be as direct with him but I would definitely make a list of things you would like to get done daily. Then assign chores to each person.

TBH I am not sure if he is genuinely oblivious or if he's playing me a little bit.

I met him when he was 37- never been married or even gotten close to getting married.  He lived alone for over a decade.  It's been a learning process for both of us and although I have seen him grow up quite a bit, he still has some growing up to do.

To be fair, I don't think my kids are that oblivious either. I think they are lazy and want to see what they can get away with not doing. It might be bit of both for you guys too. 

[mellym]

My motto for this year is to drop the ball because I was 100% carrying the mental load, logistics, coordinating and household chores for our family. My choice because I'm type A and good at multi tasking and organizing. Something had to give with having #3 and DH has been a huge cheerleader for me. We work out what our daily/weekly chores are and what needs to be done and DH takes on 50% of the load. If I make dinner, he cleans it up and vice versa. Or he puts the kids to bed and I straighten up the house. No one is relaxing until we both are ready.

My second motto is to let it go. It is really hard for me to let others help me. I also valued my worth by how productive I am, how smooth is my household running, how does my house look, etc. I now understand that doesn't matter, but it's hard to let go of those thoughts and tendencies with the state of the world and our stereotypes. Example - we don't have time to eat supper for soccer and you get the comment from someone that they can't believe your kids didn't eat yet. Old mellym would feel guilty and like I'm failing as a mom. Now I shrug that shit off and who cares what someone else thinks or how they raise their kids. This is what works for us. If I ask DH to do something, I don't take care of it period. So, I ask him to clean up the floor and no matter how long it takes, I will NOT do it. It's DH's job to take out the garbage and I get such glee out of piling it up so he has to deal with it but now he takes care of it on his own. Old mellym would just take it out myself and get pissed and feel resentful because I was doing one more thing and it ended up with me always taking it out.

[sdlaura]

mellym I so agree with you on everything you wrote. With being a working parent and having 3 kids - there's no way I would function and actually enjoy my life if I let myself feel guilty, because there are so many things I could find to feel guilty about.

[mellym]

sdlaura, exactly! It's not about being the best mom but I am the best mom for them and no one loves them like I do.

[sunbutter]

If we are both home, there are things that we both understand have to be done before anyone gets to rest. They include: make dinner, wash dishes, bathe kids, pack lunches, put kids to bed. Not necessarily in that order. I am often home alone and doing it all but the days that DH is here, he will automatically start checking things off the list.

This wasn’t natural for him. When the kids were babies we had a checklist of things that had to be done hanging on the fridge. He grew out of needing the list. Don’t get me wrong, he ignores a the other things but the acute needs are taken care of.